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I'm not being obstinate. If anything you are.
It's you who is attempting to move the discussion from the subject
since you keep requesting people to contribute to other threads.
originally posted by: samkent
originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: GenRadek
Its mass was applied to the structure horizontally, not vertically, at about 350knots. Several pieces of the landing gear and engines continued horizontally and came down on the street. LG and engines are a significant part of the mass of the aircraft.
The fuselage was shredded by the building.
And which direction was the mass applied 5 seconds after the impact?
Just a guess on my part but maybe on the floors? hmmmm?
originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: hgfbob
2005 NIST found NO failed steel from THESE fires...YOU claim there is yet fail to provide.
And yet in the same year Underwriters Lab did tests of fire damage to WTC truss assemblies.
With pictures for those who have internet degrees in engineering.
There is a much more comprehensive report on another site but I can't find it right now.
But this one has pretty pictures of the aftermath!
As for CLAIMS by some on here re fire temperatures, office fires can reach 1000 C not F and I have posted data before from fire tests that show that.
The Broadgate phase8, 23rd June 1990 fire an unfinished fourteen story building. The fire lasted 4.5 hours including 2 hours where the fire exceeded 1000C. fire detection and sprinkler system were not yet operational nor ANY fireproofing on the steel. Despite large deflections in the elements exposed to fire, the structure behaved well and there was no collapse of any of the columns, beams or floors
The February 1975 World Trade Center North Tower Fire.
This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 23, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2,000,000. The building is one of a pair of towers, 412 m in height. The fire started at approximately 11:45 P.M. in a furnished office on the 11th floor and spread through the corridors toward the main open office area. A porter saw flames under the door and sounded the alarm. It was later that the smoke detector in the air-conditioning plenum on the 11th floor was activated. The delay was probably because the air-conditioning system was turned off at night. The building engineers placed the ventilation system in the purge mode, to blow fresh air into the core area and to draw air from all the offices on the 11th floor so as to prevent further smoke spread. The fire department on arrival found a very intense fire. It was not immediately known that the fire was spreading vertically from floor to floor through openings in the floor slab. These 300-mm x 450-mm (12-in. x 18-in.) openings in the slab provided access for telephone cables. Subsidiary fires on the 9th to the 19th floors were discovered and readily extinguished. The only occupants of the building at the time of fire were cleaning and service personnel. They were evacuated without any fatalities. However, there were 125 firemen involved in fighting this fire and 28 sustained injuries from the intense heat and smoke. The cause of the fire is unknown.
The WTC North Tower suffered no serious structural damage in this fire. In particular, none of the steel members needed to be replaced.
So, here is a very serious fire (which spread over eleven floors) in World Trade Center North Tower. The very same building that "collapsed" on 9/11. Although the 1975 fire lasted about 4 hours, it caused no serious structural damage. However, according to the government/media fairy tale on 9/11, the 2001 fire, which lasted only 56 minutes, caused not only serious structural damage, but caused the entire building to collapse.
There should be a law against telling such fairy tales as these government/media fables.
Anyway, in both of the above mentioned pre-9/11 fires, the trusses survived the fires without replacement and supported the buildings for many, many years after the fires were put out.
So did truss failure cause the "collapses" of the World Trade Center buildings? Of course not.
NIST 1-6A Appendix C Passive Fire Protection p.274..."within the debris fields created by the aircraft impact into WTC 1 &2...thermal insulation was damaged and dislodged"
originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: RocksFromSpace
I don't think anyone died in the collapse of bldg 7.
Secondly its a memorial for the people who lost their lives and not a platform to argue a conspiracy theory (I mean time and place for everything).
Trying to make that argument at the memorial site is no better than the Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals.
There is literally no credible evidence for anyone dying at 7.
there was a complete evacuation and collapse zone set up before the building fell.
Their testimonies are widely available.
LIEUTENANT PATRICK SCARINGELLO EMS
"I heard the explosion from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean".
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BOERI WTC2
We had our backs to the tower and under that pedestrian bridge walking south, myself, Eddie Kennedy and the officer, when you heard the crackling. You looked up and you saw the one floor explode on itself and the top start to slide.
FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM REYNOLDS
After a while, I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down
Why are you changing the subject?
But I meant why are you changing the subject regarding the Fire Chiefs and the predicted collapse.
I'm genuinely asking: do you ever think your viewpoint will gain any sort of currency if this is how you behave?