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Your Brethren in Iraq Suffer Greatly while You are with Your Wives

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posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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Why is Islam at war with the west? Don't take it from me.
    An Open Letter from a Saudi Islamist to Those who Shirk Jihad

    "You who shirk Jihad it is reported on good authority that the Prophet said: None of you is a real believer unless he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself. It is also reported on good authority that he said: The meaning of Islam is giving good advice. Therefore, I give you honest advice.

    "You who shirk Jihad, Allah has said: 'Fight them until there is no more discord and Allah alone shall be worshipped' [8:39]. Don't you know Allah's words: 'Slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoner and besiege them and lay an ambush for them wherever you can' [9:5]? Allah has said: 'Fight them, so that God will chastise them at our hands and shame them. He will grant you victory over them, will satisfy the believers' spirit and remove vexation from their hearts' [9:14]. Allah has said: 'Fight those from among those who had been given Scriptures, who do not believe in Allah and in the last day and do not prohibit that which Allah and His Messenger prohibited and do not follow the true religion, until they pay the jizya [the poll tax] out of hand, while being humiliated' [9:29]. Allah has said: 'You who believe, the unbelievers who dwell around you; let them find you tough, and know that Allah is with those who fear Him' [9:123].
A very revealing letter (originally posted here) which tells the story of jihad and what it means from the mouth of a Muslim.

No surprise that he sees the exact same thing in the Qur'an that I and anyone else with half a brain can see: that Allah commands Muslims to spread Islam by the sword, that only He may be worshipped.

Know your enemy and yourself and you will not be in danger in a hundred battles.





[edit on 30-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]




posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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The word "shirk" is also significant in this letter.

Shirk is the ultimate, unpardonable sin of blasphemy and the exact opposite of Islam (submit). It stands for freedom of thought, conscience and religion. A Muslim is not free to do whatever he wants to do; he must obey Allah:

[047.007-010] O you who believe! If you help (in the cause of) Allh, He will help you, and make your foothold firm. But those who disbelieve, for them is destruction, and (Allh) will make their deeds vain. That is because they hate that which Allh has sent down (this Qur'n and Islmic laws, etc.), so He has made their deeds fruitless. Have they not travelled through the earth, and seen what was the end of those before them? Allh destroyed them completely and a similar (fate awaits) the disbelievers.

Disobeying Allah...not good.

[009.038-039] O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the cause of Allh (Jihd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world compared to the Hereafter. If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people.

[009.041] March forth, whether you are light (being healthy, young and wealthy) or heavy (being ill, old and poor), and strive hard with your wealth and your lives in the Cause of Allh. This is better for you, if you but knew.

[009:081] Those who were left behind rejoiced at sitting still behind the Messenger of Allh; they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allh, and they said: Go not forth in the heat! Say: "The fire of hell is more intense in heat"; if only they could understand!



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Thanks for the applause.

I also hope others understand that while there are other forums for religion I happen to believe with good reason that Islam is an integral part of the war on terror.

Not all Muslims are our enemies, but our enemies in this war are Muslims.



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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What is your point exactly?

I mean, I absolutely respect your command of the Islamic faith, and your knowledge of the intricate interbalance between radicalism and moderism -- however, I fail to see a definite point in your musings on the war on terror and it's connection to Islam.

Isn't that obvious to everyone in the entire world? I mean, we are on a 21st century Crusade that is going to have everlasting consequence. This isn't a war on terror. It's a war on DIFFERENCE.

Moderate Muslims aren't that DIFFERENT from Moderate Christians. It's the David Koresh/Branch Davidians and the Moqtada al'Sadr's who we are fighting. It's the Hamas, not the Palestinian people.

When an extreme religion arises from the surface of the earth's civilization, that religion -- and it's people, ways of life, and means of being unique -- are attacked like so many small zits on the face of a teenager. In fact, I believe that we as humans could coexist for fifty thousand more years on this bluegreen marble if we could only find a way to understand, embrace and TOLERATE our differences -- be they racial, religious or economic.

In the end -- that's the wildcard. As I've said before, only an alien species visiting this planet could shake the foundations of who we are and what we *think* we believe in enough to make a new start of everything. Short of that or a hurtling asteroid the size of a city, I think we're doomed to follow the path of ignorance, fear and cowardice that are simply (like them or not) human traits.

IMHO, anyway. *burp*



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 10:12 PM
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Wow, most of what you said could be mistaken for a biblical commentary. "You shall have no other gods beside me."



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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It remiondds me alot of a Tokyo Rose or Lord hehaw broadcast. You know GI Joe, while you are fighting here Rossevelt is sleeping with your wife. SOmetimes there guys are right out of a comic book



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by NextLevel
What is your point exactly?

I mean, I absolutely respect your command of the Islamic faith, and your knowledge of the intricate interbalance between radicalism and moderism -- however, I fail to see a definite point in your musings on the war on terror and it's connection to Islam.

Isn't that obvious to everyone in the entire world? I mean, we are on a 21st century Crusade that is going to have everlasting consequence. This isn't a war on terror. It's a war on DIFFERENCE.

Moderate Muslims aren't that DIFFERENT from Moderate Christians. It's the David Koresh/Branch Davidians and the Moqtada al'Sadr's who we are fighting. It's the Hamas, not the Palestinian people.

When an extreme religion arises from the surface of the earth's civilization, that religion -- and it's people, ways of life, and means of being unique -- are attacked like so many small zits on the face of a teenager. In fact, I believe that we as humans could coexist for fifty thousand more years on this bluegreen marble if we could only find a way to understand, embrace and TOLERATE our differences -- be they racial, religious or economic.

In the end -- that's the wildcard. As I've said before, only an alien species visiting this planet could shake the foundations of who we are and what we *think* we believe in enough to make a new start of everything. Short of that or a hurtling asteroid the size of a city, I think we're doomed to follow the path of ignorance, fear and cowardice that are simply (like them or not) human traits.

IMHO, anyway. *burp*


In order for you to say that moderate Muslims and Moderate christians are pretty much the same you'd have to know about them both.

My point is that there will always be Islamic terrorism so long as we continue to ignore the Islamic component of Islamic terrorism and pat Muslims on the back assuring them we see nothing wrong with their religion. The President's advisor on Islam, David Forte, knows hardly anything about Islam and yet feels he has the authority to say that the terrorists are not only not Muslims they aren't religious at all.

This is at the heart of why I fight to get the message out. A Constitutional lawyer who's barely read the Qur'an is advising the leadern of the free world on Islam and telling him and the whole world that Islam has nothing to do with 9-11 or Madrid or Bali or Tel Aviv or Chechnia or the USS Cole or the Khobar Towers or the African Embassies or the 93 WTC bombing etc etc etc...It's obvious to people like you and me but the conventional wisdom that all religions are peaceful and tolerant runs so deep that not only will people refuse to believe it they will fight the idea tooth and nail.

Islam is nothing like Christianity in structure or in practice. The roots in Abraham are of little consequence to what these religions are at their core.

The way Islam is set up--and Muhammad and the early Muslims did a masterful job of creating a religion that is more an all-encompassing way of life or ideology than a religion--Muslims who are good, peaceful tolerant people are actually bad Muslims. That's what's at the heart of this letter. The author is reminding Muslims that dislike or disobedience of any of Allah's commandments will get them tossed into the hellfire forever. And one of Allah's commandments (dozens of them, actually) is for Muslims to fight the unbelievers until no god is worshipped but Allah. This of course is nothing like the teaching of Christ, who said that anyone who helped the least among us did so in His name whether they were aware of it or not, and it will be these who will sit next to him in heaven.

And I'll remind you all again that I am agnostic--if Christianity were a source of evil in this world I'd be the first to rant about it.

But it's not, and we all know it.

My point is to understand the enemy, identify the problem with them so we can work for a solution. Pretending that Islam can integrate with the west and assimilate is a dangerous fantasy, and has absolutely no historical precedent. Everywhere Islam has clashed with other civilizations, whatever track record there is of peaceful co-existance is far outweighed by human catastrophe. And yet not only do we refuse to identify Islam as a problem, we invite Islam to participate in our society, brandishing anyone a racist or a bigot who dares object to the slow Islamization of our culture.

Anyone interested in what I'm talking about read:Thanks for the comliments. If only there were a way for me to show or prove to people how much time I've put into studying this, only to be dismissed as a bigot and a racist and ignorant.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:32 AM
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Just look at how the inquisition brought Cristianity to the new world... it wasn't done by a door to door campaign backed up with bumperstickers you know...

Look when people believe in Dogma, well.. ipso facto every one else is wrong. No why or because needed... just plain wrong. Doesn't leave much room for reasoned debate now does it?



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:48 AM
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Where are all the leftists to tell me that Islam is a peacefull religion?????

I'm eFing baffled


I thought they just wanted to shake my hand and live in peace????

Where is that dude reporting that the 101st airborn has defected and is now laying siege on area 51? I need him to answere a few things.........



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Where are all the leftists to tell me that Islam is a peacefull religion?????

I'm eFing baffled


I thought they just wanted to shake my hand and live in peace????



What happened first American troops in Saudi Arabia or 11/9 (9/11 is the ninth of november you silly americans)? Have a little think about that will you..

Go on tell me how Americans just want world peace and the distribution of wealth....



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 04:06 AM
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This is a truly frightening view of Islam. Unfortunately it is most likely true. Islam is all-encompassing, but not all-tolerant. It is our nature to accept any religion to be at heart tolerant and understanding. We tend to regard those that carry out the tenets of the religion as fanatics. This are fatal premises to work under, as we have seen.

The radical tenets of Islam are at least implicity adopted by all members of the religion. This may well explain their resistance to assimilate into the culture of their adoptive nations. It also explains why we do not see well organized, mass demonstrations of Islamists againts acts of terror. Instead, we are referred to the occasional letter of lukewarm protest by an Islamic scholar as "proof" that they are against terror.


EDIT Typo

[edit on 1-12-2004 by jsobecky]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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During the 70's, Egypt took on a west ideology of democracy and possesions of materialistic items as the passage to a better life. Earlier Islamic followers reported to the muslim religious leaders that the liberal way a westerners life was corrupt and took on an evil self righteous path.

Since then the Islamic faith has been fighting with a state government over the control and direction of hearts and minds of it's own people.

Islamic terrorism believes if you attack the evil at the source (West/USA) it can potentially win this battle and gain support to remove a state government. So the US is fighting back by installing puppet governments which is exactly what they're fighting to prevent.

strange huh..

Either way, with the fall of USSR the neo-cons were dying off during the Clinton administration, so they created a new false evil in Islamic terrorism so the direction and spread of good/democracy could continue.

Otherwise liberals would take over the world



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
Just look at how the inquisition brought Cristianity to the new world... it wasn't done by a door to door campaign backed up with bumperstickers you know...

Look when people believe in Dogma, well.. ipso facto every one else is wrong. No why or because needed... just plain wrong. Doesn't leave much room for reasoned debate now does it?


The Inquisition is not mandated by Biblical scripture.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
What happened first American troops in Saudi Arabia or 11/9 (9/11 is the ninth of november you silly americans)? Have a little think about that will you..


What happened first, the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq or American troops in Saudi Arabia?

And who asked us to set up camp in Saudi Arabia? Did we just waltz right in or were we invited?

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Ibn Iblis]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 04:25 PM
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Islam was created by Christianity and Judiasm...




Not all Muslims are our enemies, but our enemies in this war are Muslims.


Once again, you're trying to insinuate that ALL muslims are enemies of the west, and non-muslims at that.

Nice play on words.

Wether or not Christianity is "violent" in scripture, does not disregard thier stream of violence and genocide (silent aswell;intellectualy atrophy) in the name of God. The Church created a new breed of Christianity bent on control and manipulation, burning millions of scriptures, killing countless pagans and any who contested thier view, and yet you tell us to disregard thier acts?

Do we all know what happened to Hypatia...she suffered a cruel death for not beleiving in Christ.

Islam is not at war with us. A few fanatics are at war with us, and then some are at war with the American occupation in Iraq; I don't see muslims screaming "allah is mighty" in downtown Chicago planting bombs on road sides.

This "one" fanatic who wrote a letter is just that: "ONE" fanatic..

You're trying to impose your own paranoia on everyone.

Deep



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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I think the letter is a good example of how Islam has brought up to become a fanatical ideology, but to be fair that's the same thing that christianity did in the dark ages, so we can see with this post to be fair to the IB that when religion is brough up by extremist it can become a very scary thing.

Good thread IB.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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people are crazy
what can i say



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Islam was created by Christianity and Judiasm...




Not all Muslims are our enemies, but our enemies in this war are Muslims.


Once again, you're trying to insinuate that ALL muslims are enemies of the west, and non-muslims at that.

Nice play on words.


My God man why do you embarass yourself like this? Are you sniffing glue, or are you purposely disagreeing with me solely for the sake of disagreeing?

I say not all Muslims are our enemies and you read ALL Muslims are enemies of the west.

I don't know how the hell you ended up off my ignore list but right back on it ya go.

And Muhammad created Islam, not Judaism and Christianity. Pay attention.



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