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originally posted by: Haxsaw
a reply to: kaylaluv
oh it's gone to a small percentage now has it? this is still debatable, and I think you need to do a lot more reading before I bother educating you anymore, so please spare me
and, animals don't suffer from psychological mental disorders now either? wow ignorance must be bliss, start with googling the fact you are wrong on this, then you'll realise you actually have nothing worthy to say. Regardless of whether some humans have an innate disposition to do certain actions does not in any way make whatever those actions may be 'acceptable', and this is what is being debated, stop clutching at straws and dancing around the point.
official data reveal that gays and lesbians comprise between 2 percent and 4 percent of the population.
. . .
This story sounds eerily similar to the disaster witnessed in New Jersey last year, when transgender activist Brielle Goldani claimed to have been sent to a "conversion therapy torture camp" in Ohio in 1997. Goldani alleged to have been electroshocked at the month-long "True Directions" camp in an attempt to make him, now her, straight. Yet, an investigation published at WorldNetDaily.com revealed that the entire testimony was a fraud, taken directly out of a Hollywood production starring drag queen RuPaul.
Tall tales of "therapy torture" aside, the larger problem with this legislation is the foundation of facts, or lack thereof, to substantiate such prohibitions. While anti-therapy advocates assert that "rigorous studies" have found SOCE therapy to be "harmful" and "ineffective" for minors, there is no scientific foundation for this assertion. To date, there have been no outcome-based studies published in peer-reviewed journals that have followed minors undergoing SOCE therapy. Rather, these advocates have used sociological data to argue that efforts to change should be made illegal.
. . .
These clinical outcomes are consistent with epidemiological data that has found homosexual feelings in adolescence to be fluid, rather than fixed. Longitudinal studies by Savin-Williams & Ream (2007) and Ott et al. (2011) following large samples of youth found that seventy-five and sixty-six percent of adolescents, respectively, who initially identified their sexual orientation as "homosexual" or "unsure," reported exclusive heterosexual attraction at follow-up. In contrast, only two percent of youth who identified a heterosexual orientation in the Savin-Williams & Ream study reported a homosexual orientation at follow-up.
While most people would agree that forcibly subjecting gay-identified youth to undergo therapy to change sexual orientation is wrong, that does not mean the state should remove the option for youth (especially those who experience homosexual feelings due to sexual abuse) to explore the origins of their same-sex attractions and consider whether they want to pursue therapy that affirms their self-identified and preferred heterosexual identity.
. . .
But don't take my word for it; ask New York Mayor Bill De Blasio's wife, who was once a lesbian. When queried as to how she went from being a lesbian to falling in love with Bill, writer and poet Chirlane McCray said, "By putting aside the assumptions I had about the form and package my love would come in. By letting myself be as free as I felt when I went natural."
Just in case you were wondering, no reports have surfaced that indicate McCray was tortured or forced into this marriage. But then again, we're barely into 2014, and there is plenty of time for activists to make up stories that go unchallenged in the mainstream media.
Nicolosi's theory is that men are attracted to other men because of how they were raised. He bases this notion on conversations he had early in his career with gay men.
“As I listened to these men, I started to hear common themes of their childhood,” Nicolosi said. “Overinvolved, intrusive mother, distanced, detached or hostile father, so that the boy did not bond with the father. That became the foundation of the understanding. I looked into the literature. I saw that there was an entire tradition of psychoanalytic understanding.”
So why not accept that his patients might be gay?
Knowing the reason for their same-sex attraction is consoling to patients, Nicolosi said. “They’re no longer weirdos or perverts or degenerates or whatever. Now they realize that their same-sex attraction is an attempt to repair a sense of not belonging to men.”
Among their findings:
-- 23 percent reported a successful conversion to heterosexual attractions.
-- 30 percent reported living a celibate life and were content with their reduction in homosexual attractions. Altogether, those latter two categories were combined for a 53 percent success rate, the researchers said.
-- 16 percent of subjects had modest decreases in homosexual attractions and weren't satisfied with their degree of change but were committed to continuing the process.
-- 7 percent had seen no decrease in homosexual attractions but had not given up trying to change.
-- 25 percent of subjects were considered "failures," either because they gave up on the process and once again identified as a homosexual (20 percent) or because they had not yet embraced a homosexual identity but nevertheless had given up (5 percent).
All the subjects were going through programs set up by Exodus International, a Christian ministry that seeks to help those who want to leave homosexuality. Although Exodus funded the study, Jones and Yarhouse agreed to conduct it only if all sides agreed that they would report the results no matter the outcome -- in other words, even if the findings embarrassed Exodus.
The latest findings were released four days after an American Psychological Association task force released a 130-page report that said "gay-to-straight" therapies are unlikely to work. That report got mixed reviews from conservatives, although APA's position on the issue is well-known: It believes homosexual attractions are "normal and positive variants" of human sexuality. The APA's website still states, "[T]here has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective."
"The APA has previously asserted, with absolute clarity, that sexual orientation change is not possible -- that it simply doesn't occur," Jones, of Wheaton College, told Baptist Press. "The best way to test that is to study people as they're attempting change and follow them over a long period of time. Our study found that a significant portion of that population reported very significant change."
originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: undo
I don't think heavy handed coerciveness works well in most cases regardless of the type of problem.
It is certainly problematic with regard to homosexuality.
However, so is heavy handed propagandizing saying the whole thing is a rosey bowl of peaches and nirvana.
An endless train of one night stands and sex outside of primary relationships as well as other complications . . . e.g. 20 years shorter life span . . . are not glorious factors suggesting that the orientation is exclusively wonderful.
An extremely tiny minority of homosexual relationships are long term enduring and monogamous. That's sad. Regardless of perspective or religious issues or whatever, that's JUST SAD.
originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: amazing
The research is fraught with horrendous methodological junk/problems.
The irresponsible, unfounded propagandizing on all sides is off the scale--particularly with the "pro" groups.
The whole research picture is MOSTLY one of "research" ran by outrageously screamingly "pro" biased "researchers" and groups and is GREATLY MORE THAN A LITTLE SUSPECT from the git-go.
The research from the 'you can change' group is typically not greatly better.
Pontificating on the basis of junk research by mostly propagandists on either side, is . . . disingenuous and terminally stupid while pretending to be erudite.
originally posted by: amazing
This usually comes from a religious background shrouded in one of the three outdated Abrahamic religions or a mind clouded in ignorance.