4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago

originally posted by: TheChrome
The key thing to point out about any such argument is that scientists themselves disagree on many things. So if this is the case, how can a person be conclusive about everything scientist theorize? If you watch CNN, FOX, MSNBC and so forth, journalists have a different viewpoint on many issues, so how can we take a decisive decision on what the true news is on this very day? Historians also disagree on certain dates and events. So collectively it takes discernment to understand anything. That's where wisdom comes into play. Education and intellect alone are not good enough, for if a person has a bunch of knowledge and can't connect the dots, his knowledge is of no value. I have a genius intelligence level, and I would say the Bible is accurate and reliable. I would also say that the majority of those who "believe" are uneducated about the Bible's contents. So I can see how an Atheist would look upon religion and laugh. I however look upon the Religious and Atheists alike, and wish to teach both groups the facts.

The bible is FAR from accurate and reliable. If you have a genius level intelligence like you claim (very arrogant of you and highly dubious since you are on the internet, but whatever), simple logic should place the bible in the realm of unbelievability since it makes many claims that violate the laws of physics, was written 2000+ years ago during a time when quality control of information was nonexistent, and most if not all of its stories were passed down orally for years, decades, centuries, and even millenniums. Therefore in order to believe ANYTHING the bible says, a logical and intelligent mind should first seek evidence OUTSIDE the bible before believing any of its claims. But of course, I'm sure you knew that being a genius and all.

First of all, when a person looks through a telescope and sees a distant star or galaxy, he is seeing light that took millions and even billions of years to travel enough to be seen by us. That means the universe is at least as old as the light we see. That means the Earth is millions or billions of years old as well. NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THE EARTH IS ONLY 10,000 YEARS OLD. Genesis mentions the creative days, which were "eras" which could have spanned a countless number of years. As mentioned in an earlier post: 2 Peter 3:8 " With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day".

This is a good application of logic as well as a good application of molding the text of the bible to account for modern scientific knowledge. I have no problems with what was written in this paragraph.

The bible is FAR from accurate and reliable. If you have a genius level intelligence like you claim (very arrogant of you and highly dubious since you are on the internet, but whatever), simple logic should place the bible in the realm of unbelievability since it makes many claims that violate the laws of physics, was written 2000+ years ago during a time when quality control of information was nonexistent, and most if not all of its stories were passed down orally for years, decades, centuries, and even millenniums. Therefore in order to believe ANYTHING the bible says, a logical and intelligent mind should first seek evidence OUTSIDE the bible before believing any of its claims. But of course, I'm sure you knew that being a genius and all.

Well, I would agree with some of of your comments, but not all. Explain first how the bible violates the laws of physics, and then explain why a book written 2000 years ago accurately prophesied the times we live in today. As far as information outside the bible, any learned person would realized what is taught in the mainstream is hocus pocus. All you have to do is open a simple encyclopedia to find out Christmas is a rebirth of the Roman Saturnalia Festival, and not of the bible at all. Or to understand the Halo depicted in so called Jesus paintings is a symbol of Sun God worship dating back thousands of years (Ra of Egypt is a good example of use of a disk or halo). So most information OUTSIDE the bible, actually proves the bible right and mainstream religion wrong!

originally posted by: TheChrome

The bible is FAR from accurate and reliable. If you have a genius level intelligence like you claim (very arrogant of you and highly dubious since you are on the internet, but whatever), simple logic should place the bible in the realm of unbelievability since it makes many claims that violate the laws of physics, was written 2000+ years ago during a time when quality control of information was nonexistent, and most if not all of its stories were passed down orally for years, decades, centuries, and even millenniums. Therefore in order to believe ANYTHING the bible says, a logical and intelligent mind should first seek evidence OUTSIDE the bible before believing any of its claims. But of course, I'm sure you knew that being a genius and all.

Well, I would agree with some of of your comments, but not all. Explain first how the bible violates the laws of physics, and then explain why a book written 2000 years ago accurately prophesied the times we live in today. As far as information outside the bible, any learned person would realized what is taught in the mainstream is hocus pocus. All you have to do is open a simple encyclopedia to find out Christmas is a rebirth of the Roman Saturnalia Festival, and not of the bible at all. Or to understand the Halo depicted in so called Jesus paintings is a symbol of Sun God worship dating back thousands of years (Ra of Egypt is a good example of use of a disk or halo). So most information OUTSIDE the bible, actually proves the bible right and mainstream religion wrong!

Um... A person walking on water violates the laws of physics buddy. Turning water into wine, another example. A burning bush talking to you. A global flood despite there not being enough water on the earth to cover it completely. I don't know what physics class you took but these things and more, what you guys call miracles, violate the laws of physics.

The bible didn't prophesize anything today. I see no mention of it talking about the United States or us driving cars or the banking industry literally owning the world. It did make some good educated guesses, but those are easy to make just looking at history and human behavior. Many of the prophesies in the bible that you are referring to are vague and can be attributed to anything.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with Christmas being a pagan holiday and the halo coming from older religions means. That just proves that Christianity and its stories is just an updated version of older religions. It actually does more to prove that it is all bunk then it does to prove that it is true.

a reply to: SonoftheSun

Four in ten Americans are not so far from the truth if you ask me. Only god was not the real God but a sort of go-between.

If they mean the 'earth' they should say the conditions for live on earth.

You could say that consciousness and humanity go together. One cannot exist without the other.

Humans like they are now are created by extraterrestrials, from a species that lived on earth. It was the only way to overcome gravity, viruses, oxygen etc.

Consciousness comes from a hidden planet in our solar system. It was transplanted in a Homo sapiens. When? I don’t have a clue.

But consciousness corrupted. And the gods decided to clean the world. They did it in an incredible way. And they did it 12600 years ago. So not so far from the 10.000 years four in ten Americans believe in.

www.evawaseerst.be...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheChrome

The bible is FAR from accurate and reliable. If you have a genius level intelligence like you claim (very arrogant of you and highly dubious since you are on the internet, but whatever), simple logic should place the bible in the realm of unbelievability since it makes many claims that violate the laws of physics, was written 2000+ years ago during a time when quality control of information was nonexistent, and most if not all of its stories were passed down orally for years, decades, centuries, and even millenniums. Therefore in order to believe ANYTHING the bible says, a logical and intelligent mind should first seek evidence OUTSIDE the bible before believing any of its claims. But of course, I'm sure you knew that being a genius and all.

Well, I would agree with some of of your comments, but not all. Explain first how the bible violates the laws of physics, and then explain why a book written 2000 years ago accurately prophesied the times we live in today. As far as information outside the bible, any learned person would realized what is taught in the mainstream is hocus pocus. All you have to do is open a simple encyclopedia to find out Christmas is a rebirth of the Roman Saturnalia Festival, and not of the bible at all. Or to understand the Halo depicted in so called Jesus paintings is a symbol of Sun God worship dating back thousands of years (Ra of Egypt is a good example of use of a disk or halo). So most information OUTSIDE the bible, actually proves the bible right and mainstream religion wrong!

Um... A person walking on water violates the laws of physics buddy. Turning water into wine, another example. A burning bush talking to you. A global flood despite there not being enough water on the earth to cover it completely. I don't know what physics class you took but these things and more, what you guys call miracles, violate the laws of physics.

The bible didn't prophesize anything today. I see no mention of it talking about the United States or us driving cars or the banking industry literally owning the world. It did make some good educated guesses, but those are easy to make just looking at history and human behavior. Many of the prophesies in the bible that you are referring to are vague and can be attributed to anything.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with Christmas being a pagan holiday and the halo coming from older religions means. That just proves that Christianity and its stories is just an updated version of older religions. It actually does more to prove that it is all bunk then it does to prove that it is true.

It predicted the final world power to be partly of iron and partly of molded clay. "So the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, anymore than iron mixes with clay" It's not rocket science to see that depicts the political environment we live in. Democrats and Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. Nobody can agree on anything. The country has some strength of iron, but is not cohesive. (Daniel 2:41-43)

Also you can look at the figures as usgs.org, and realize that there is a significance to the the prophecy about earthquakes at Matthew 24:7

originally posted by: TheChrome

It predicted the final world power to be partly of iron and partly of molded clay. "So the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, anymore than iron mixes with clay" It's not rocket science to see that depicts the political environment we live in. Democrats and Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. Nobody can agree on anything. The country has some strength of iron, but is not cohesive. (Daniel 2:41-43)

Daniel 2:41-43......41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

Not really seeing the validity of your claim here. It's even more vague and ridiculous than those of Nostradamus.

Where does it mention the US ? So there is no "world"...outside of the US? Even given that many from this part of the world seem to think so, strangely enough, I can't find the predictions about US politics anywhere the bible at all. Not even a word about Columbus (which would have been impressive).....

Also you can look at the figures as usgs.org, and realize that there is a significance to the the prophecy about earthquakes at Matthew 24:7

Matthew 24:7.....Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

This is your "obvious" prophecy....? What a vivid imagination you have!

So...these ancient Palestinian goat herders were not just prophesying about US politics, but also about US earthquakes..? Sounds legit.

originally posted by: TheChrome
It predicted the final world power to be partly of iron and partly of molded clay. "So the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, anymore than iron mixes with clay" It's not rocket science to see that depicts the political environment we live in. Democrats and Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. Nobody can agree on anything. The country has some strength of iron, but is not cohesive. (Daniel 2:41-43)

So how is today more significant than the 1850's? Just before the Civil War took place, this country was already practically two countries in its division. Then, in the 1860's we literally went to war with ourselves. I'd say that is a BIT more divided than what we have going on today. But that is just the US. What about the French-Indian war (the first TRUE world war) or WWI and WWII? Weren't the people of the world pretty well divided then too?

Also you can look at the figures as usgs.org, and realize that there is a significance to the the prophecy about earthquakes at Matthew 24:7

Earthquakes happen all the time. The reason they do more damage today is because there are more people alive and naturally that means more people living near fault lines. Your prophecies just go back to the vague comment I made earlier. The prophecies AREN'T obvious, and can be twisted to me and look like anything. The fact that I can pick out times in our past that also line up to these prophecies says that they AREN'T as obvious as you are claiming.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

The bible is very precise in foretelling the dominant world powers over time. It is not vague, like Nostradamus.
It foretold that Babylon would fall to Persia, Persia would fall to Greece, Greece would fall to Rome, Rome would splinter into many nations, among which The British Empire would rise to be the dominant power. GB and the US eventually have become a dual world power, just as Media and Persia were that overthrew Babylon. This is all illustrated in the bible.

It is common for people to make excuses about prophecy. Wars have always happened, earthquakes have always happened, famine has always happened yada yada yada. What hasn't happened is all of these things happening collectively on a global scale. In the last 100 years, we saw WW1 and WW2, there cannot be any comparison of any wars in history that equaled the slaughter. "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" At the same time the Spanish flu killed as many as WW1 itself. Just in the last decade the number of earthquakes 8.0 or greater have tripled.

The bible isn't written in such a way to be understood by anyone who does not dig. Even most who claim to believe in the bible do not dig into it, and are very uneducated about it's contents.

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

The bible is very precise in foretelling the dominant world powers over time. It is not vague, like Nostradamus.
It foretold that Babylon would fall to Persia, Persia would fall to Greece, Greece would fall to Rome, Rome would splinter into many nations, among which The British Empire would rise to be the dominant power. GB and the US eventually have become a dual world power, just as Media and Persia were that overthrew Babylon. This is all illustrated in the bible.

No it isn't precise at all. There is literally ZERO mention of Great Britain or the US. The world wars aren't mentioned at all. Also by the time the Book of Revelation was written, Persia had already lost to Greece and Greece had already fallen to Rome. The Book or Revelation was written during the Roman Empire. It's not exactly a prediction if you talk about something that has already happened (not that those two events are even relevant to the conversation)

It is common for people to make excuses about prophecy. Wars have always happened, earthquakes have always happened, famine has always happened yada yada yada. What hasn't happened is all of these things happening collectively on a global scale. In the last 100 years, we saw WW1 and WW2, there cannot be any comparison of any wars in history that equaled the slaughter. "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" At the same time the Spanish flu killed as many as WW1 itself. Just in the last decade the number of earthquakes 8.0 or greater have tripled.

There can't be a comparison to the World Wars?

10 Deadliest Wars In Human History

Hey look at that, the Taiping Revolution is estimated to have more deaths than both WWI and WWII and it happened in JUST China. Oh look what else is there, over half the wars on that list involve China or where actually IN China. It looks like when it comes to war, the rest of the world can't hold a candle to the amount of experience that China has at waging it.

Just in the last decade the number of earthquakes 8.0 or greater have tripled.

WRONG! So VERY wrong. Here some FACTS instead of your wild claims:
Earthquake Facts and Statistics
Looks like we average about one 8.0 magnitude earthquake a year.

Further proof:
Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase?

According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.

The bible isn't written in such a way to be understood by anyone who does not dig. Even most who claim to believe in the bible do not dig into it, and are very uneducated about it's contents.

You do realize that a book claiming to be the ultimate truth would make more sense to be understood by everyone equally no matter what their intelligence level and not just a select few people with a lot of free time on their hands correct?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are correct. Revelation was written during the Roman Empire, but does not contain the prophecies I spoke of. The book of Daniel was written circa 536 BC during the Babylonian Empire and contains these prophecies.

It specifically names Persia and Greece by name, since those were known countries at the time. (Daniel 8:20,21)
It does not name Rome, or US/GB by name, since at the time it was written GB/US was probably an inconceivable territory in which to refer to. Rome was properly referred to as a crushing empire "different than all the others and most terrifying...crushed and and devoured it's victims...I also wanted to know about the ten horns on it's head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell." Daniel 7:19,20

It is historical fact that Rome fell circa the 5th century but lingered on in the form of the Byzantium (East) and Holy Roman Empire (West). The ten horns were representative of the independent nations that arose in the Roman territories.

In the 16th century Britain's wealth was inferior to the Netherlands, It's population less than France, and Navy inferior to Spain's. In 1588 Britain defeated the Spanish Armada. In the 17th century Britain surpassed the Netherlands in wealth, and by 1763 signed the treaty of Paris with France after many battles in India and North America. The defeat of Napoleon in 1815 sealed the dominance of British Power. Thus Britain was the "horn that came up, before which three of them fell"

As far as the earthquake thing, you are wrong

There has been an increase of geological activity and natural disasters over the past 100 years.

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are correct. Revelation was written during the Roman Empire, but does not contain the prophecies I spoke of. The book of Daniel was written circa 536 BC during the Babylonian Empire and contains these prophecies.

It specifically names Persia and Greece by name, since those were known countries at the time. (Daniel 8:20,21)
It does not name Rome, or US/GB by name, since at the time it was written GB/US was probably an inconceivable territory in which to refer to. Rome was properly referred to as a crushing empire "different than all the others and most terrifying...crushed and and devoured it's victims...I also wanted to know about the ten horns on it's head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell." Daniel 7:19,20

You do know that there have been other empires on earth since the roman empire fell right? All of which had WAY more power and influence than the Roman one did. What about the British Empire? It was once said to be so large that the sun never set on it. Why isn't that empire mentioned? The Spanish Empire was a pretty nasty empire as well. They raped and pillaged pretty much all of the Americas before the rest of Europe got on board. They also helped start the international slave trade from Africa.

Also your remark about GB and the US is a cop-out. You said it yourself that the bible is precise with its prophecies. In order to be precise and leave NO room open for different interpretations (you know the definition of precise), then it should list these countries by name. You just disproved your own claim.

It is historical fact that Rome fell circa the 5th century but lingered on in the form of the Byzantium (East) and Holy Roman Empire (West). The ten horns were representative of the independent nations that arose in the Roman territories.

That is an interpretation and is the exact opposite of precise. I can find interpretations that differ VASTLY from these claims.

In the 16th century Britain's wealth wealth was inferior to the Netherlands, It's population less than France, and Navy inferior to Spain's. In 1588 Britain defeated the Spanish Armada. In the 17th century Britain surpassed the Netherlands in wealth, and by 1763 signed the treaty of Paris with France after many battles in India and North America. The defeat of Napoleon in 1815 sealed the dominance of British Power. Thus Britain was the "horn that came up, before which three of them fell"

This interpretation could mean literally ANYTHING. But also going along your interpretation it is quite easy to make that prediction. Here let me translate into simpler terms. Three empires will rise and will fall, only for a forth to take its place. That is just inevitability. Naturally once one empire falls, another one will take its place.

As far as the earthquake thing, you are wrong

There has been an increase of geological activity and natural disasters over the past 100 years.

Dude I got the earthquake source from a government source. YOUR source for your picture isn't even listed. Like where did you get that picture from? Not to mention it makes no mention of 8.0+ magnitude earthquakes increasing like you originally claimed. My source even addresses the increase in earthquake activity that you are trying to call into question. From the second source:

A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more than 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes.

So you have failed to show the precision of the bible that you just claimed existed. We have a lot of interpretation and events that have occurred that could maybe be fitted into these prophecies, but that is a characteristic of vagueness NOT precision. Precision leaves NOTHING to interpretation. You are 100% wrong about your claims.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You obviously did not read my comments. It contained much depth about the British Empire, which now encompasses both Britain and the US

a reply to: TheChrome

Oh I read your post, it is a bunch of interpretations done in such a way to make it seem like the events you highlighted are any more significant on the world stage than any other. Why aren't we addressing the Tiaping Revolution? I already showed you that it may have been a bloodier conflict than even WWII, yet no mention of that in the bible and apparently it doesn't even matter globally to you (I bet you didn't even know that it had happened). You DO know that the world consists of more than just North America and Europe right? Significant things have happened since the bible was written in other parts of the world that aren't those two continents and they are NEVER mentioned when talking about bible prophecy. Why are the events you claimed SO much more significant than some other ones?

I'm also still waiting for this alleged precision in the bible you spoke about. Everything I've seen from you is open to interpretation by whoever happens to be reading it. What if I read everything literally and that is MY interpretation? The very fact that more than one interpretation can exist disproves your claim of precision. In order to be precise there can only be ONE interpretation.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The bible addresses those who read it and follow it. Historically in the east, there has been an absence of biblical presence. There have been empires such as the Mongolian Empire and the Ottomans not mentioned in the bible. Why? Because although powerful, those were not the most predominant world power on earth at the time, and did not influence the majority of bible followers much. Much of what you talk about is regional. The prophecies of the wars and powers of the end times are global.

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The bible addresses those who read it and follow it. Historically in the east, there has been an absence of biblical presence. There have been empires such as the Mongolian Empire and the Ottomans not mentioned in the bible. Why? Because although powerful, those were not the most predominant world power on earth at the time, and did not influence the majority of bible followers much. Much of what you talk about is regional. The prophecies of the wars and powers of the end times are global.

So what you are saying is that people who don't get introduced to the bible don't count? Man that sucks, apparently according to you back in the day you could end up not going to heaven just by the luck of where you were born. You know, you haven't said anything very compelling to convince me to come back to Christianity, in fact your post here kind of made me like it less. Eternal salvation being dependent on a lottery is the most awful thing I've ever heard.

I don't place much significance on these types of surveys.

If you did surveys around the world, you would probably find higher numbers of those believing in "God created Earth 10,000 years ago" in many other countries.

i dont think this is true!!!!!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheChrome
In order to be precise there can only be ONE interpretation.

I agree, there can only be one interpretation. "surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7) " God is not a God of disorder but of peace." (1 Corinthians 14:33)
Who are his servants, the prophets? He obviously does reveal things to those he considers his servants. And is it logical that a God of order desires his word to be interpreted differently? "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (1 Corinthians 1:10) Starting there, a sign of true followers would be the absence of divisions of interpretation.

As far as your statement about those not introduced to the bible don't count, your missing the point. Everyone counts. However a God who can inspire prophecy would also know the territories in which his word would take root, thus inspiring the information to focus primarily in that arena. Your not thinking in a balanced way. God does not hold accountable anyone who have not been exposed to his truths. Those not familiar with the bible are probably better off in God's eyes than those who warp and skew it's contents, and spread misinformation thereof.

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheChrome
In order to be precise there can only be ONE interpretation.

I agree, there can only be one interpretation. "surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7) " God is not a God of disorder but of peace." (1 Corinthians 14:33)
Who are his servants, the prophets? He obviously does reveal things to those he considers his servants. And is it logical that a God of order desires his word to be interpreted differently? "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (1 Corinthians 1:10) Starting there, a sign of true followers would be the absence of divisions of interpretation.

Quoting bible passages doesn't change the fact that there are literally THOUSANDS if not millions of interpretations to the bible. Look how many different ways people interpret the book of revelation to try to say the end times are coming. The fact that so many interpretations can exist (and each are equally viable since there is no proof that one is more viable than the next), it disproves your precision statement. Sorry that upsets you, but it's true.

As far as your statement about those not introduced to the bible don't count, your missing the point. Everyone counts. However a God who can inspire prophecy would also know the territories in which his word would take root, thus inspiring the information to focus primarily in that arena. Your not thinking in a balanced way. Those not familiar with the bible are probably better off in God's eyes than those who warp and skew it's contents, and spread misinformation thereof.

This is all rationalization to hand-wave away the little discrepancy that an all powerful god should have NO problem introducing his will to the entire world at once rather than just a small localized population. By the way, how do YOU know that you aren't warping and skewing the bible with your interpretation?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because in the end truth cannot be disproven. No matter how many so called interpretations there are, simply comparing each faith to the bible, you can quickly determine what is true and what is not. Process of elimination. For starters, "freely you have received, freely give" (Mathew 10:8) Does a certain faith charge money for youto receive biblical instruction? If so, check that one off the list as a No. "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13) Does a certain faith support war and killing? If so, check that one off as a NO. Etc. Etc. With enough cross examination, it is easy to find truth. It is just a paradigm shift. I am not offended by any of your statements.