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originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
You are over-complicating the entire discussion, needlessly.
This poll was about creationism, the idea that modern man was created by a deity max. 10.000 years ago. Anything else is needless over-complicating or diverting what this entire thread was about.
It is as simple as to shorten this poll/debate to the idea that BEFORE 10.000 THERE WAS NO MAN, or he was so significant different from "modern man" that he cannot be considered our ancestor..so basically, in a nutshell, BEFORE 10.000 there was no being on this planet from which we (could have) evolved later. The *exact* definition of what is modern man is really not..relevant here.
Now..what I did was bring in the example with Blombos Cave where IT WAS SHOWN beyond any "reasonable" doubt that up to 140.000+ years there did indeed live HUMANS/HUMANOIDS/MAN/ANCESTORS however you want to define it. Those even "mass produced" stuff like beads, fishing hooks etc. PLUS they already used a form of writing/language and possibly math because they found engravings on those things.
Summary
Blombos Cave is an important site on the Southern Cape of South Africa for supporting
“modern behavior” of the Middle Stone Age people. Many contend that the MSA people were
not fully modern in behavior because the artifact remains do not support the working of organic
material, fishing, and other advanced behavior. They also project that these behaviors may not
have originated in Africa. However, at this particular site, evidence supports all three, and dates
to as far back as at least 40,000 years ago.
Dates
Like many other MSA sites, the dates for the approximate occupation time at the cave are
not solid. Archaeologists have attempted to use radiocarbon dating and archaeological finds,
such as tools, to develop an educated estimate of the age of this site. Most tend to agree that the
site was inhabited approximately 50,000-60,000 years ago. Carbon and Nitrogen analysis was
used to measure the dates of the bone points. They took samplings from the MSA levels, and the
LSA levels, to compare the content of Carbon and Nitrogen. The LSA samplings contained a
larger amount of both Carbon and Nitrogen, due to the fact that the LSA materials were younger
and therefore better preserved. They estimate the bone points of the MSA to be slightly older
than 40,000 years.
So..what other evidence would someone need for that BEFORE 10.000 YEARS AGO man was on this planet?
You are correct, 200.000 years ago or possibly longer ago even (?) there may have NOT been any man/man-like species, and "modern" man may have come at the scene right about that time..but this doesn't change the fact that 100.000 - 140.000 there was some very advanced MAN in that cave which obviously entirely contradict the idea as in the poll that man appeared here 10.000 years ago or younger even.
WHY would he need to create man around 8.0000-10.000 BCE when they were obviously already rather smart 130.000 years earlier and showed typical characteristics up to and incl. language?
originally posted by: amazing
Yeah, if we stick to the specifics we don't cloud the issue. Take a belief in God, evolution and everything else out of this thread.
Could the earth really be only 10,000 or less years old?
We should be talking about light years and ice ages, dinosaur fossils and carbon dating.
Religion has been brought into the lab plenty of times. There is nothing there except a belief. There is nothing there to measure. Ther is no evidence of god to observe. Therefor religion is at best a hypothesis. No theory at all. What claims can you make about religion that couldn't also have a secular explanation? Specifically your religion whatever it is. What can you do with your religion that can't be accomplished without it? How does your religion solve problems that no other religion can? This is the point. If you could show that your religion has even one property that is not found without it, you would make worldwide headlines.
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
originally posted by: Woodcarver
I see no problem with any of those labels. Don't you think it's dangerous to allow false information to propagate? I mean to say that it is religious texts which propagate exclusion, racism, hate for gays, fear of punishment for not conforming to views not held by science. A general distrust of science.
I think that is very dangerous to society and the world as a whole.
If you have two unproven theories, then talking about one isn't any more "false information" than talking about the other. We do have two unproven theories here. Anyone with a real understanding of science knows this. Claiming one side is wrong because of religion is a lame excuse to insult them. It's also a very poor argument for your aide of the issue. No facts, just insults? Lame.
I think the attitude that anyone with any religious belief is somehow wrong is dangerous to society, and the world as a whole.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: amazing
Yeah, if we stick to the specifics we don't cloud the issue. Take a belief in God, evolution and everything else out of this thread.
Could the earth really be only 10,000 or less years old?
We should be talking about light years and ice ages, dinosaur fossils and carbon dating.
But the poll had nothing to do with how old the earth was......why do we keep going in that direction?
originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Woodcarver
Evolution is undeniable when you do the work and study it for yourself. The real problem is convincing people that they need a solid education on a matter before they get on here and try to argue.
There is only one HUGE flaw with that premise...
It is impossible to understand propaganda by STUDYING propaganda.
That would be the same thing as studying the NIST report in order to understand 9/11.
Or trying to understand a cult by joining the cult and reading their own writings.
"Now, it is easy to show that Darwinism, one of the pillars of modern biology, is nothing but a kind of cult, a cult religion. I am not exaggerating. It has no scientific validity whatsoever. Darwin's so-called theory of evolution is based on absurdly irrational propositions, which did not come from scientific observations, but were artificially introduced from the outside, for political-ideological reasons."
Jonathan Tennenbaum: Toward a True Science of Life
"The theory of the transmutation of species is a scientific mistake, untrue in its facts, unscientific in its method, and mischievous in its tendency." ~ Prof. J Agassiz, of Harvard in Methods of Study in Natural History
"...many elite controlled organizations are heavily involved in the spread of the evolution theory"
"The illuminati have a much deeper agenda than most people know, they promote and fund the teaching of evolution, while behind the curtains they worship Lucifer the devil as their own God.. they know the truth in the Bible and they know satan is real, its the sheep who are under the illusion" Source
Ever since the time of Darwin, part of the major press has been given the task of disseminating Darwinist indoctrination. The Darwinists of the time were well aware that the theory of evolution would never be corroborated by any scientific evidence, but produced a Darwinist dictatorship as the result of systematic and organized activities and charged part of the major press with spreading the fraud. The press in question is still at work today. The only difference is that the Darwinist fraud they perpetrate has now been exposed.
Darwinist Propaganda Techniques
originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Woodcarver
I tested out of all the science in college, so I guess you are right that I was not formally trained in it. I did have to take the highest math class needed for my field though, I couldn't test out of all of that at MTU.
so how do you know your methods are accurate? What methods do you use to evaluate "things"?
I evaluate everything, I am not limited to evaluating things by the rules that people have made. I examine all sides of the story.
ok turn off your a/c, give your car/bicycle away, break your phone, and go forage for food in the woods (without your clothes) now how necessary does tech seem?
Yes science did create all of our technology, but you have to ask yourself if this technology is even necessary on a regular basis. Technology can make us dependent on technology.
I understand radio carbon dating well, reading many articles on it.
In the coming years with the tools we have created, we will find out much more of science and we will be saying how did we get this so messed up. Opening your mind and observing the whole picture is crucial to making the right evaluation of the evidence. You cannot cherry pick evidence that backs your theory and discount things that do not fit it. You cannot narrow your vision to see the big picture.
I have a lot of respect for many scientists and researchers, especially those who evaluate things properly and try to keep their comprehension on the whole picture. In the case of dinosaurs, it doesn't matter how long ago they existed, whether it was a half million or five million years ago is immaterial. It doesn't really matter, except to the ones putting the dates on things. We should spend more time examining things so we don't mess it up and go extinct ourselves.
How would we spend less time for inventing bicycle (or arguing that metal is made of molecules..), and finding knowledge what would tell us why to drive ... to use house for calm and needed things that are needed in Main assumed logical highest point and in micro scare (like taking care of flowers in yard, that is more need for Us) and to believe that All tech what is needed will be given on time. In the form of Tesla or Gates, so we would keep being inspired and imagination working, heart pulsing for Her (to who we want to show off most things done good, from mother to girl next door who smiles) ___ So where does this all fit ? I mean person can be even sometimes more easily convinced on times, that there was no yesterday by friends or that one is other person... but some of these experiences/contacts are so strong that one knows fully 10 years later what happened. But among billions of people who know that world is made or that we have growers these experiences are ordinary and not posted usually to Web or newspapers but shared with people from religion. Often with experiences intelligence and peace is inherited so no sharing or talking is needed, or even avoided in spiritual purpose (as no need to talk about that you discover you have legs, as its shame you did not know so long.... its like bot smoking first revolutions... that we later feel ashamed about) I know guy who was famous rock band member and then one day middle of home road got strong vision and message that one have to open up Church, one did soon and it is working up to now 20 years later. So drugs and electronics are not for him,but shortly these skills are for man to impress Her Same applies when you 40 some years... as when you was 4 and show painting or skill to adult. In Her and often around you is eyes of world who look you as baby just because thats all we can be on the eyes of Nature. This realization might ruin boner of many man but this is how it is, and most forgiving after your mother (how ever she is made to act) will be Your wife who is destined to find excuse for every your mistake as long you realize, at least humbly sometimes... who is Her
originally posted by: SonoftheSun
Not sure if this is the right Board for this, so please move if necessary. Thank you.
Hey Friends,
I find this quite unbelievable and would enjoy opinions.
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.
With all of our technological advancements that permit us to research a little about this planet's history and our evolution, I cannot conceive that 40% are still living in medieval times.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like that the title mentions Americans and I wish that this thread doesn't turn into an "Americans are ignorant" bashing thread. I would be willing to bet that this percentage might even be higher if it was a global poll.
I just don't get it.
If you read the article linked below, you will find other gems as well, such as:
- 80% believe in miracles (okay...I'm one of those...)...
- 75% believe in the virgin birth of Jesus...
- one out of four has no clue that the Earth revolves around the Sun and not the other way around...
And more...
Linkie
Stumped.
Like, Hello? This isn't North Korea or Iran where information is not available. We have the internet, we have education for those who need it...so...how can this be?
My "Deny Ignorance" meter blew a fuse while reading this article. Really, how can this be, in 2014?
Thoughts?
originally posted by: dlbott
a reply to: SonoftheSun
First, who came up with the numbers and based on what, how many people polled, who validated etc. I can create a poll to say what ever I want. Just wait till next year and elections kick off lol.
Next, you should have just named the thread bash believers instead. I can understand debate and such but you guys just came out calling anyone with a belief other than your own petty, small, dumb, and few other definitions. To state that as fact however, just shows ignorance on your own parts.
The fact is the numbers are much higher than that and even large numbers of scientists that are actually going the other way now.
Fact is you guys should be ashamed just slamming those who believe. Sound like a bunch of children on playground.
Like I said should have named it come slam believers, no discussion allowed. Pathetic....
The Bot