Parents Arrested Over Obese 11-Year-Old Son

a reply to: grainofsand

Now if everyone could please stop doing what grainsofsand is doing (making this thread into an opportunity to showcase how wonderful they are), we would be finally down to discussing what this thread is all about.

1. Government has shown an increasly aggressive agenda of extending their control into the minutia of our lives. Witness the anti-tobacco campaign that is now down to lobbying landlords to ban smoking in our own homes.

2. Government is NOT shy about using violence (yes - the threat of arrest is violence) to enforce their programs

3. The Government can change the standard of what constitutes "healthy" at will.

4. The Government wants to make arbitrary standards of health enforceable by law.

The government is using the "nose of the camel in a tent" method of extending their control of our lives. Of course, a 210 lb child is an extreme example. Of course, the government would use an extreme example to extend their control.

But now - let us take this extreme example further (as LadyGreenEyes did) - you should now be arrested if you press a piece of cake onto a child for their birthday, even the child has a slightly thick waist.

In the words of grainsofsand - is this what we want for our society going forward?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

What parents are supposed to do is to allow their child to eat what the child feels they need - in a healthy variety. Plenty of fruits and vegies on top of the desired carbs and proteins. Just like you do with babies, a child will usually eat what they need.

Medical issues sometimes change that, or make that more difficult to do. Such as with my daughters diabetes, she couldn't take in the necessary calories because of the necessary diet needed to maintain her diabetes - so we always had a fight on our hands.

A person who is prone to having weight issues will have some of the same type of fighting that my daughter had, just in a slightly different form. For them it will be getting enough nutrition to grow properly while their body is trying to hang on to and store every calorie.

Your correct when you say doctors don't always know everything... again using my daughter as an example, there were times a new doctor would decide her weight was our fault, and she would be hospitalized only to find there was nothing they could do either, and she would be sent home with the advice of, just do everything you can...

duh.

All any parent can do is everything they can. And most parents do just that!

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

And everyone remember something - the doctor had the choice of hospitalizing the child and chose not to - this is not about health. The doctor called the police because this is about "obedience". The doctor called the police to force the parents to obey him in some fashion or to punish them because they "failed" to make their kid lose weight.

Like I say - mention the word "health" and the constitution and human rights goes right out the window!

We have gone from a society that enforces treatment for live-threatening diseases on children, over the parents wishes - to a society that uses powers of the police state to enforce parents to submit to ALL a doctor's edicts.

Do we really want to give that much power to the government and public health?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
Pathetic, once again you misrepresent a successful personal example of parenting experience as bragging or showcasing. I'm no longer interested in your emotionally childlike debating style and I am once again reminded on ATS that a prick can be more than a simple puncture wound to the skin.
Good day sir, I shall leave you to praising the fine parents in the OP, fat is good...fat is good....fat is good...I'll keep telling myself.

a reply to: grainofsand

Thank you for the info. I do appreciate it, even though I don't agree with it.



Thanks

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That is about as common sense a method of parenting as I ever heard. children are not slaves. they should never be forced to eat or not eat. they are the masters of their own little bodies and they know if they are hungry or not and how much they should eat.

As parents, our only job is to ensure that there is as wide a variety of food in sufficient quantities.

In your case, had you been threatened with arrest and seizure of your child, you might have been tempted to force your child to eat out of fear! You could have easily crossed over the line into downright abuse!

The same goes in the other direction - parents may be tempted to deny the child food causing the child to be hungry and fear the loss of food.

Who is the government or the doctor to intrude like this? Will they take responsibility if you get over-eager to follow their commands?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: grainofsand

And once again - this discussion is all about YOU!

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: grainofsand

And once again - this discussion is all about YOU!

Tired of Control Freaks

Really ? he have had a good points.. you refuse to see.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
You are the one starting posts advising people how they should reply, who's the control freak there, oh the irony of your username lol...are you obsessed with me?

*Edit*
Take a look at the whinging post where you name me twice, shucks, I'm honoured lol

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: OpinionatedB

In your case, had you been threatened with arrest and seizure of your child, you might have been tempted to force your child to eat out of fear! You could have easily crossed over the line into downright abuse!

The same goes in the other direction - parents may be tempted to deny the child food causing the child to be hungry and fear the loss of food.

Who is the government or the doctor to intrude like this? Will they take responsibility if you get over-eager to follow their commands?

Tired of Control Freaks

You know, that is a scarey thought right there. Government encouraged abuse. I would hope every parent, no matter what their situation would never succumb to the bullying of their family like that...

But that is a scarey thought, what if...

a reply to: grainofsand

Still haven't answered my question - if the doctor was so concerned, why wasn't the kid hospitalized.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: OpinionatedB

It is interesting isn't it?

When did the powers of public health (issued to protect the population in general from communicable diseases and enforced by the police) become the powers of private health and also enforced by the police.

How many of us would be subject to criminal prosecution if our child fails to meet arbitrary standards of normal?

Is this really why we elect and fund a government?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: dollukka

Please elaborate - what good points does he have?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: OpinionatedB

but that is the situation that we are discussing here.

The parents have been arrested and threatened with seizure of their child. They are obviously cooperating with medical treatment. They willingly brought the kid to the doctor for medical care. The kid is obviously not sick or the doctor would have hospitalized the kid.

These parents are exactly in that scary situation. They can deny the kid food to make him lose weight but as we both agree - restricting food is abuse. And as grainsofsands pointed out, a calorie in/calorie out equation indicates that it doesn't matter what kind of calorie it is.

Everyone is assuming that the kid was fed only junk food to get that fat but tne quality of the calorie isn't the issue. Its the quantity of calorie. If you eat to many calories in the form of vegetables, you will still be eating too many calories.

And how do you ensure that the kid gets the nutrition he needs to meet the needs of growing child.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
As i said you refuse to see anything which is opposite of yours.
We are not genetic miracles and just plain and simple some are overeating. Eating too much actually release chemicals in brain which leads to feeling pleasure about it, this is part of human evolution when people ate to survive the hard times ( lack of food ) now we don´t have those hard times but still this trait is in us.
Animals eat to seek this pleasure when they have moderate pain same is with human. Google "ingestion analgesia" studies. So feeling bad leads to eating more and its a roller coaster of addiction.
There is no such a person as happy fat person.. its a huge lie.
I have a 3 childhood friends who all were overweighted and all of them were able to drop that weight to normal just by having self discipline.

a reply to: dollukka

Good point dollukka but how does this relate to an 11 year old child.

1. Are you seriously suggesting that a child is capable of the same self control as your friends? If you admit that this cannot possibly be so then your friends experiences are irrelevant to the kid and the situation. Read Xcathra's post and how felt about all the advice and comments that he received when he was a child.

2. Are we genetic miracles - well, in fact, metabolism is very very different in all kinds of people and there are many genetic mutations that interfere with metabolism. As a matter of fact, metabolism isn't very well understood at all.

3. Are you seriously suggesting that an 11 year old boy is capable of foregoing pleasure?

The only good point here is that this kid is in trouble. He is far too fat!

Now - if you want to say that these are good points - make the connection for me.

How did arresting his parents improve the situation?

There are dozens of interventions that would have been helpful:

1. Assign a housekeeper to shop for the family groceries and prepare their meals (if you believe that the kid is fat ONLY because of the quality of food that he eats
2. Admit the kid to a controlled environment to lose wieght
3. Offer memberships to a community pool and make the kid begins exercising safely. Assign a sensitive Big Brother to mentor and befriend the kid.
4. I could not possibly recommend bariatric surgery or drugs to an 11 year old but weekly sessions with a nutritionist might help

The kid definatively has a medical problem. Is making the medical problem a criminal issue the best answer.

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
The kid definatively has a medical problem. Is making the medical problem a criminal issue the best answer.

Having a medical problem isn't a criminal offense.
Negligence by the parents is a different story.

The kid wasn't slightly overweight.

What they allowed to happen borders on abuse.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Who plays the most important roles in childrens lives? There you find the answers...

a reply to: opethPA

Ok - lets agree.

The kid has a medical problem. The parents are bringing the kid to a doctor and, if you read the article, you would know that this is not the first time. So it is established that the parents are seeking medical assistance with a medical problem.

To follow your logic - the doctor sees the kid has a medical problem and feels that the parents are not doing enough to help the kid or are the cause of the kids problem.

So the doctor has to take action. He has choices:

1. Hospitalize the kid - he has a medical issue and needs medical help
2. Request that the kid be "rescued" from his abusers and removed from the home - in short report the abuse.

So what happens:

1. The kid is NOT hospitalized (obviously not sick enough)
2. The kid is NOT removed from the home

instead

The parents are arrested and threatened.

Go ahead and explain how this makes sense to you

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: dollukka

oh no dollukka - you don't get to just slough it off like that.

Make the connection for me - how did we get from the kid is fat to its appropriate to arrest and threaten the parents?

Say whatever you want about what makes the kid fat but until you can explain how just arresting and threatening the parents is an appropriate response.

If the parents are abusing the kid - then it is appropriate to remove the kid from the home. Obviously, someone did NOT believe this was the case because the kid is still in the home.

Obviously, the parents were arrested and threatened because the doctors felt that their "obedience" was lacking in some fashion.


Tired of Control Freaks