Parents Arrested Over Obese 11-Year-Old Son

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Kindly notice that grainsofsands kid was just "starting" to gain weight (possibly ahead of a growth spurt). He had no health issues but notice how ANY food ruled unhealthy was immediately denied to the kid.

Your kid had diabetes and even you didn't go that far.

Tired of Control Freaks

My my, such emotional rantings to be dealt with since my last log-in, lol, well, I shall chip away...

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: grainofsandYou believe that child are the property of parents and can be controlled every second of every day.

Nope, I haven't said that anywhere, it is your imagination alone.

And you provide your example of perfect parenting as the ideal to which every human being should strive. (and yes - its called bragging)

Nope, an example of assisting my child to change an unhealthy regime. It was relevant to the discussion of parental responsibility, providing boundaries and guidance.

The fact that YOUR actions had the desired effect in YOUR household is called ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. It is of no practical value.

I am of course educated to a reasonable standard so I do understand what anecdotal evidence is. I am grateful for your concern regarding possible gaps in my knowledge.
Either way though, both you and Stormdancer have provided plenty of your own anecdotal evidence regarding the topic, and differing kid sizes, kids health problems and such like, but you don't see me whining about it.

Do you truly think that there is no one on this site who has parented children other than you? We have, each and every single one of us, had a time and place when our child needed us and we stepped up to home plate and hit a home run. The opposite is also true. We have, each and every single one of us, had a time and a place when our child needed us and we stepped up to home plate and STRUCK OUT, (including you, Mr. Wonderful!)

Nowhere have I said anything along those lines, again, it is in your imagination.

You used a common sense approach, reduced the use of high calorie food and increased physical activity AND it worked!

Yes, of course.

Well la di da

Does 'la di da' indicate you are pleased, perhaps surprised? ...or is it just another childlike emotional response?

Did YOUR child head over to a friends house and eat his face off? No? Then I guess YOUR child was cooperative with your approach. You got lucky!!!!

I don't believe in luck.
It is more likely that a communicative, loving, and caring environment provided by both parents in a structured, proactive and supportive style was the reason for success in my particular parenting example.

Was YOUR child awakened in the middle of the night because of hunger? NO??? Again you got got lucky. What would you have done if you found your child waking up in the middle of the night and raiding the fridge? Would you have denied food to the child and locked the fridge up?

It never happened because I sensibly structured mealtimes including a small 'supper' before bed.
If such a situation had occurred then I would have adapted his intake appropriately.
Helping a child lose weight can be carried out successfully while avoiding such a dramatic situation as you describe, it just takes longer.

What if YOUR child had started crying and proclaimed that he was "hungry, hungry, hungry"? Would you deny him food? According to your energy in/energy out equation, even providing an apple at 120 calories would have supported his increased wieght. Would you have stood there as a parent and denied your kid food?

Different question but you repeat yourself in essence so I shall just refer you to my previous comments.

As I said - your example IS bragging and is most likely irrelevant to the kid and the parents in the OP!

Nope, it was anecdotal evidence shared with an honest intention that was relevant to the immediate discussion.
Again, I shall raise (in response) that both you and Stormdancer have shared your own parenting experiences in this thread. The unsubstantiated bragging claim you make is just that. It only exists in your imagination.

As for your simple energy in / energy out equation, you are quoting the first law of thermodynamics. You are talking physics but you should be talking biology.

Ultimately our bodies use energy to run, and every body has different energy needs to either gain weight, stay neutral, or lose weight. Provide too much food energy to a body than it needs then it will store the excess. Provide less energy than it needs then it will draw on the stored resources. There are no fat people in sustained famine conditions.
Which of the above do you disagree with?

Since you are so determined to use yourself as the shining ideal of parenthood,

Nope, again that is in your imagination.

please answer this question:

Actually it's six questions, but whatever, your emotional ravings amuse me so I shall indulge.

Did you deny food to a hungry child (for his own good, of course) but still endure night after night of your kid waking up hungry or crying during the day that he was hungry?

No, my health plan was designed to ensure no such suffering occurred.

Did you follow him every minute of the day to ensure that he did not eat food somewhere else?

Nope, just always worked hard at beautiful strong communication, honesty, and trust with my child, a strategy which appears to have been successful throughout his life.

Did you lock the fridge up?

Nope, never needed to. I refer you back to my answers to question 1 & 2.

If you encountered any of the above problems AT ALL , what exactly did you do, how did you react?

My reaction is always the same in any parental responsibilities, always in a calm, loving, supportive, and honest manner, with a focus on the best choices for my child.

How much wieght exactly did your kid have to lose (you said he was just "starting" to gain wieght) are we talking 10 lbs here?

I don't remember what weight he was now, a higher than required body fat percentage was obvious to both of us at the time, enough to inspire the intervention. Why do you ask, just looking for something else to rant about?

How does that compare to a kid who needs to lose 25 lbs, 50 lbs or 100 lbs.

Other kids are the responsibility of other parents. They should set their caring health plan appropriate to the individual child, especiall when amongst 5 or 6 siblings, they may have greatly differing needs. One thing is for certain though, good parents assist and enable their children to make the choices which are in their best interests.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Since you and grainsofsands are both child-rearing experts, whose children never rebelled or were disobedient, perhaps you can enlighten those fools of us who have raised 7 children and know that kids have different personalities and needs

A communicative, loving, and caring environment provided by both parents in a structured, proactive and supportive style worked for me, but then I guess a childs available individual and personal relationship time to benefit from parental guidance is much reduced when one has 7 kids.
I can understand that, I was one of five siblings as a kid.

Continued.....

...continued

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
BTW - your assessment of grainsofsand as a "good" parent. Remember that only recently was he 'thanked" by his kid for his strict attention to weight. I am guessing that there were some time period of intense resentment, feelings of inferiority and psychology issues in between the event and the thanks (if that is what is was)

Nope, I have worked hard at a deep, loving, communicative, honest and trusting relationship with my son from day one, and it has paid off. I actually showed him this thread just now and I can't really express the 'dad/lad speak' he intimated to me about your silly emotional assertions, so I shall just say, again, it is all your imagination alone, lol.

I think you should remember that this is a man who said "I would only make love to a fat woman, if I was on a desert island and she was the only thing available"

Which is the same as saying "I would only stoop to relieve myself in a latrine if a proper toilet were unavailable"

Nope, again, all your imagination, and for the record, you alone used the word 'thing' relating to a person who could be a potential sexual partner, not me. It indicates much about your character to use such a word to describe a person.
In any case, I like consensual recreational sex, why do you describe it as something dirty like pissing in a latrine? Strange perception for you to have.
I would only have mutually willing and recreational sex with someone I would not normally be attracted to (eg: a fat woman) if I had no other willing participants to choose from. What on earth is wrong with that?

Now if the man had said, "I am unattracted to fat woman and could not possibly have sex with one", I might have accepted that as simply a matter of personal preference.

But in this case, this man appears to believe that no woman could possibly object to being used as "personal relief station" by a man who finds her to ugly to look at?

Nope, again you imagine all that.
Do you not think the fat woman on the imagined desert island would not want to have an orgasm once in a while herself. If the two of us were consensual and accepted it for what it is then what would be your problem with that?
I've lost count of the various false assertions you have invented for me now, lol.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Kindly notice that grainsofsands kid was just "starting" to gain weight (possibly ahead of a growth spurt).

Irrelevant conjecture again from yourself. Again you are incorrect and your suggestions are only 'real' in your imagination, lol again.

He had no health issues but notice how ANY food ruled unhealthy was immediately denied to the kid.

Yep, health issues were prevented in a communicative, loving, and caring environment provided by both parents in a structured, proactive and supportive style...which my late teen son thanked me for in one of our regularly enjoyably deep, loving, and honest conversations.

You clearly have issues with me personally and with all your emotional declarations about what you think I may or may not believe so I shall leave you to this thread and you may control it as you wish.
It took a fair while addressing all your rambling afterthought allegation reposts ranting about what you think about my intentions or whatever...it is for that reason I shall ignore you in future, unless I find one of your future childlike rants amuse me in some way and I am bored.

a reply to: grainofsand

SO - your words on the fat woman on a desert island stand by themselves buddy!

Now that you have so thoroughly explained your shining example to the world:

How was it relevant to the article about government interference in private family life?

Tired of Control Freaks

Oh my goodness.. You can´t force people to be sexually attracted to someone when they are not. This conversation has made a twist which has nothing to do with the topic.

a reply to: grainofsand

No you didn't reply to the question. You and dollukka don't reply to questions. The question is very very clear:

How is YOUR or anyone's else's personal handling of kids, weight issues etc - relevant to a discussion about government interference in private family life?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Obesity is a problem that health system is trying to deal with.. there is one obvious reason and that is a huge costs what comes with all the health issues obesity people bring and most of this cost is paid by goverments ( tax money everyone pays ) ..
Are you saying its ok just watch population get obese and do nothing about it ? As i stated before we don´t even know what all they have tried with this family but i doubt this kind of decision do not come lightly.

What else you need to know?

Ah...breathe and relax.

back on topic, I believe that circumstances can potentially be the case where it would be considered appropriate for the state to arrest and investigate parents who appear to be carrying out a course of action which is likely to have a damaging effect on the health of their child.

Obesity does not result in immediate death so I see a month more of care with the parents as a sensible move by the police, releasing them on bail, while providing time for evaluating the concerns of the referring doctor.
A society which turns a blind eye is less attractive to me.

a reply to: dollukka

Dollukka

You asked me to answer your questions and I did.


I have been asking the same question over and over. Neither you nor grainofsand will answer. We both know why!

Telling stories about how wonderful you are is nothing more than bragging. I called it

Telling stories how you wouldn't have sex with a fat woman except under the condition of being on a desert isle and said fat woman being the only thing available is irrelevant (and frankly a little disgusting)

You have attacked me over and over on this issue but each time - you have failed to answer the question

Tired of Control Freak

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
I have been asking the same question over and over. Neither you nor grainofsand will answer.

Which specific question exactly FFS?
I quoted all your questions and answered them individually, regardless of the chore it was.
Please pray tell, what is this mysterious question you apparently feel has an answer which is so elusive?

....I suspect just more boring and silly emotional ranting lol

*Edit*
Referring to someone as a 'thing' is undesirable as a human quality. You only reinforce your reputation by repeating that a second time in this thread/topic.

Telling stories how you wouldn't have sex with a fat woman except under the condition of being on a desert isle and said fat woman being the only thing available is irrelevant (and frankly a little disgusting)

...your quoted (and bolded by myself) choice of words are perhaps slightly more disgusting don't you think?
Twice now you have described potential sexual partners as 'things' while I have not.

a reply to: grainofsand

Here are your words, about the fat woman on a desert island, quoted exactly:

Yep, I'm personally repulsed by fat adults. I would only share an intimate moment with a fat woman if she was the last option - desert island shipwreck situation etc. Anything wrong with that? Thought police now is it? Must I be attracted to bodies with a high fat percentage because 'they're all beautiful inside' ??? Who is the 'Hitler' now as you mentioned earlier?

I am not reading one single word about a "loving, consensual sexual relationship" or about how she must have sexual urges and want you too.

Tired of control Freaks

***ATTENTION***

ENOUGH!!

Discuss the TOPIC, not each other. Further violations will result in a suspension of posting privileges.

Do not reply to this post.

~Tenth
ATS Super Mod

a reply to: dollukka

ok ok dolluka, fair enough, you got me!! I just wanted to prick his pompous little ego. (he he he)

Lets get back to the topic.

Dolluka: You seem like a reasonable person but you seem to have drunk the Kool-aid. You seem (and if I am wrong, please feel free to correct me) horrified by the "so-called" obesity crisis and that seems to have influenced your opinion about whether it was appropriate for parents in the OP to be arrested or not.

Earlier in this thread, I posted a summary of the meaning of BMI and how it was changed and also a discussion about the lastest study on the magnitude of the epidemic and how it seems to been going down since 2006.

can I ask - did you read it?

Tired of Control Freaks