LGBTQ is forced on elementary students in schools without parents consent

And yet you continue to do so....

Where? Point to that in something I've actually said. I'm giving my opinion here as you are. What's the big difference? That you're right and I'm wrong? LOL

I havent presumed to tell anyone they are wrong in their belief systems, infact ive repeatedly said the opposite...

What I HAVE done is pointedly say that its NOT the job of the public education system to make decisions for children w out involving the parents.

You seem to think that as long as its THIS sort of thing youre fine with it......

Im sure if they were insisting on teaching a bible study class and you didnt have a say in it, your attitude would be quite different

Of course you are telling someone somewhere that their belief is wrong when you state your opposing belief! Good god man, that's kind of the point of debate, isn't it?

The job of the public education system is complex. Parents are not going to have consensus on every point of curriculum ... and it's insane to say that no child can be exposed to ideas that their parents disagree with. Parents don't agree! and the school system is supposed to alter everything to support the notions of a few? How is that supposed to work in the real world again?

If they were teaching a Bible-study class in a public school they're acting against the Constitution of the United States. Darned right I'd have issues with that. Teaching kids to get along with others? To me, that sounds like a good and valuable skill.

(By the way, curiosity, why don't you capitalize the word "Bible" ...)

a reply to: Gryphon66

No ive simply copied and pasted your words, its that simple....

But since you asked I did look at your other threads and thread replies, and low and behold it looks like you do have some HUGE issues with religions, so no suprise that its come out in this thread, but I digress..

How is it that im not pushing an agenda?

My agenda is that the parent should have a right to opt in or out of these programs and that teachers shouldnt be teaching this stuff in school...thats the parents job.....

Its not the schools job to teach religion or to poo poo religion....

At the same time you cant mandate schools to teach a certain kind of tolerance while being intolerant to other things because you dont agree with it......which is precisely while schools should stay jolly well the hell out of it....

I personally dont care if someone has 3 peckers, or both sets of anatomy , wheres duck feet and wants to be called Butch....

..but thats MY choice when and how to talk to my children about those situations

if saying that parents have the right to choose what is taught to their children has become a negative thing in America then we are JWF'd

At any rate, its been a good discussion and friendly debate, but ive got 5 clients to meet with before noon tomorrow and the morning comes early.....

I hope the evening finds you well

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

But you HAVEN'T pasted my words and you certainly haven't presented them in context. Weren't you talking about intellectual honesty earlier?

It's the parents job but the parents AREN'T DOING IT! Why? Because they're entrenched in their beliefs.

Of course I have my beliefs and so do you. Of course our beliefs structure our outlook and the way we communicate. Yours are not better than mine and mine are not better than yours. I could just as easily claim because of your obvious Christian background that you are blind to the realities of other people around you ... would that be germane to THIS particular discussion?

But, we're reached a clear point. It's your position that parents should be able to "opt - in" or out of these kinds of programs, and it's mine that kids sometimes need to be taught more than their parents own particular biases and beliefs PARTICULARLY when it involves reducing bullying and violence in school and in society.

There, we're done. LOL. Good luck with those clients tomorrow.

originally posted by: txinfidel
a reply to: Gryphon66

Ok, you know what else exists?

Murder.
Pedophilia.
Rape.
Beastiality.

Why are we stopping at LGBTQ then and why is it age appropriate?

Maybe a more sane approach would be to not single out anybody. If were gonna bring LGBTQ to the table age inappropriately why not open the table to all that stuff too.

Unless of course that stuff is acceptable to you, you seem pretty open minded.

Are you SERIOUSLY saying because Gryphon66 thinks its ok to learn about LGBTQ in schools they're ok with crap like murder???? what in the ever loving hell kind of closed minded stance is that? as well as completely insulting! Can we please see who is starring you so I can make sure to avoid contact with you all on these boards! I am bisexual and think it'd be GREAT if I got to grow up knowing that that was more than ok, as opposed to the catholic upbringing I suffered through. My daughter is nearly 4, she knows she & I have vaginas, and her brother & father have a penis. She will be taught, when old enough to get it, although we have touched on the subject - that some men were born male but identify as women and still have penis, and vice versa and all in between. She knows its safe to grow up being whoever she wants to be. AS IT SHOULD BE.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

It's the parents job but the parents AREN'T DOING IT! Why? Because they're entrenched in their beliefs.

So the government has to step in?

What the frack ever happened to freedom?

a reply to: beezzer

The school system is not technically acting as "the government" in this case I'd say and particularly if it is it's local government, which is presumably the most acceptable of the authoritarian options ... and the one that parents have the most control over and effect upon ...

But, if we can agree that kids need to be informed that bullying is wrong, and the parents AREN'T going to do it ...

Who is, Beezer?

Someone needs to.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

The school system is not technically acting as "the government" in this case I'd say and particularly if it is it's local government, which is presumably the most acceptable of the authoritarian options ... and the one that parents have the most control over and effect upon ...

But, if we can agree that kids need to be informed that bullying is wrong, and the parents AREN'T going to do it ...

Who is, Beezer?

Someone needs to.

Bull spit.

Once we allow government to dictate one thing, it's an open door for government to determine anything.

a reply to: txinfidel

ALL of this is so wrong....forcing our kids to watch that BS crap!!! I wish these people would stay out of education and AWAY from our kids!! Sorry, my opinion. I do not agree with it at all!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

It's the parents job but the parents AREN'T DOING IT! Why? Because they're entrenched in their beliefs.

So the government has to step in?

What the frack ever happened to freedom?

Your kind of freedom enslaves the kids to the closed-minded ideas of their freaking parents! That is very, very close to fascism!

a reply to: beezzer

Are you saying that government (at whatever level) doesn't already dictate "things"? Oy, back to the imaginary Randian paradise ...

That's what government does for better or worse; I fail to see how your comment is meaningful, or, is an answer to the question:

If teaching kids that avoiding bullying is a good thing, and the parents aren't going to do it ... WHO IS?

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: txinfidel

ALL of this is so wrong....forcing our kids to watch that BS crap!!! I wish these people would stay out of education and AWAY from our kids!! Sorry, my opinion. I do not agree with it at all!

Good luck for your kids when they grow older and experience a world their parents have actively forbidden them to learn about.

There are more than just "mother-father-children"-relationships. There were before and there will be in the future. Teach your kids so they won't fall behind.

They won't get "tainted" from knowledge!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer
..

If teaching kids that avoiding bullying is a good thing, and the parents aren't going to do it ... WHO IS?

Exactly! We have to take into this that children per se are a cruel, simple mob.
Most kids (I am blessed with at least one children who did come to the sane conclusion that people are equal on her own) have to be taught about equality.

If the parents are too stupid or too lazy or just too ignorant, they have to be taught by someone else - and there are no mandatory courses for "homophobia and how to avoid it 101" at teachers educations.. Those courses are mandatory by life!

And we should feel LUCKY that we left the old misogynic, homophobic times of the 50's far behind us! How about some daily potion of rascism? That was usual back then, too.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

It's the parents job but the parents AREN'T DOING IT! Why? Because they're entrenched in their beliefs.

So the government has to step in?

What the frack ever happened to freedom?

Your kind of freedom enslaves the kids to the closed-minded ideas of their freaking parents! That is very, very close to fascism!

Versus the closed-minded ideology of the state?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: beezzer

Are you saying that government (at whatever level) doesn't already dictate "things"? Oy, back to the imaginary Randian paradise ...

That's what government does for better or worse; I fail to see how your comment is meaningful, or, is an answer to the question:

If teaching kids that avoiding bullying is a good thing, and the parents aren't going to do it ... WHO IS?

Not the fracking government!

You want to place your trust into the government?

What happens if a Christian-orientated person gets elected?

You gonna be for government intervention then?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: smithjustinb

But your indoctrination of your kids with archaic biases and bigotry will serve them well in society?

Yeah, that's logical.

THEY'RE MY KIDS! They aren't yours. They aren't society's. They're mine!

I am neither archaic nor am I a bigot. Simply stating facts. There's something wrong with gay people that they would break away from their natural, anatomical disposition. There's something wrong with trans-gender people who were born with one lower extremity and want another. That's a mental health issue and it needs to be recognized as such. We shouldn't bully them. But we should seek a medical cure. We damn sure shouldn't suggest to children that it would be okay to aspire to be like them.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Not archaic but you refuse to believe that being gay is normal....That there is something wrong with them.
Wonder how you would handle it if one of your kids is gay....
But of course that could never, EVER happen right?
But nothing some meds and therapy couldn't fix right?

a reply to: Sremmos80

Well if a person is born with some type of defect like webbed feet while it may exist in a percentage of the population we would hardly deem it normal. Also the argument about "What if your kid was gay" is rife with error. It hardly leads one to be objective about the issue don't you think? How many people are only pro gay because they begrudgingly accepted their child's deviancy because the alternative makes for awkward Christmas dinners?

So they want to take religion out of schools and put in this gay crap.... What gives...

a reply to: NihilistSanta

That person with webbed feet would still be normal, just with webbed feet
And he did compare it to mental illness, which is more what I was getting at
And no, I don't think that people with gay children force them self's to be ok with it.
I think it takes the issue hitting home for them to realize that that man/woman is still the same person you have always loved.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I am not debating their value as a human. I am simply debating acceptance of deviant behavior. There is no biological cause for it it must be mental then.

Webbed feet not the best analogy. How about cerebral palsy?


*To be honest there may be biological factors that are brought about from the environment/exposure to certain chemicals but then it just becomes something like fetal alcohol syndrome.