LGBTQ is forced on elementary students in schools without parents consent

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: whyamIhere

And you would always have the choice to take your kid out of the class.
I bet the parents got a hand out of what was going to be taught. It is public schools, you are not going to agree with everything that gets taught.

Really? From the article:

“We do not feel that this is an area that students can opt out,” school superintendent Floyd Gonella told KNTV after the meeting. He continued, “We feel this is an area we don’t have to give prior notification.”

link

Does that sound like the parents had any notification to you? Any option to opt out? Sounds to me like they didn't have either.

I'll say, I don't care what you do in your own private moments, but you can't tell me what I'm to think of it if I see it in public. If you want to display gay affection in public, go ahead, but if my kid asks, "why are two men doing that", I'm going to tell them something along the lines of, "there's something wrong with them".

Requiring kids in school to hold a certain opinion and indoctrinating them to believe the opinion is correct is wrong.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

There's no evidence that technological advances come disproportionately from kids who are homeschooled that I am aware of. Feel free to point me at it if you have some.

The general problem with the education system is that we have brought the top down to the bottom, rather than pushing the bottom to the top. Standards have been erased and eradicated. These are educational standards, btw, not moral or ethical ones.

In my experience, and I have some in the classroom and in the business world, kids who are homeschooled by highly educated parents are sometimes superior in their abilities ... but all too often, sadly, homeschooling results in mere reproduction of their parents biases and beliefs.

When those biases and beliefs are geared in favor of generally accepted truth, focus on critical thought and rationality as Beezer said above, I can understand your contention.

Sadly, and perhaps it is a function of the region I live in (Georgia) that is not the results I have seen out of homeschooling. Quite often the kids can't read beyond the level where they left public school. They are often hopelessly ignorant of and stubbornly opposed to anything outside their own belief system which sadly, again, in my experience, results from more emphasis on the Bible than upon reading, writing, arithmetic, critical thought, etc.

You mentioned "intellectual honesty" in an earlier post ... I'd like to see us agree that the word "progressive" is by and large merely used as a political bugbear for opposing beliefs. I hold no hope for that one though.

We've been trying to fix public education since we started it in the 19th century. It's not a new phenomenon.

But, in many ways I agree with what you said. We need to restore our competitive edge in science, math, industry and manufacturing. I don't see that happening in the modern "homeschool" community at large ... your mileage may vary.

originally posted by: txinfidel
a reply to: Gryphon66

Im not going to call you a moron, but when you teach five and six year olds about gay and transgendered before they have even discovered genitalia and sex it suggests to them that maybe its accepted behavior and even expected.

Which you base on your own remembered experience of not realizing that girls didn't have penises?

Wow. Thanks for not calling me a moron ...

Also, why don't you talk to some modern kids rather than projecting your past ignorance on them? I think you'd find most of them to be a fairly sophisticated bunch.

And AGAIN, the programs were not focused on educating anyone on the intricate details of sexual orientation and gender identity, but simply upon NOT BEATING EACH OTHER UP?

Stop applying your own hangups to the kids, perhaps?

a reply to: smithjustinb

But your indoctrination of your kids with archaic biases and bigotry will serve them well in society?

Yeah, that's logical.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Where do a parent's rights and factual reality intersect?

I guess when we can agree on factual reality. I am still waiting on the hard scientific facts as to whether this is something to be tolerated as they have no choice being born that way or whether it is merely a preference derived from mental traumas or fetishes being shoved down peoples throats as if it is normal (clearly 3-5% of a population is the norm) .

a reply to: Gryphon66

In my experience, and I have some in the classroom and in the business world, kids who are homeschooled by highly educated parents are sometimes superior in their abilities ... but all too often, sadly, homeschooling results in mere reproduction of their parents biases and beliefs.

My father always told me that if you listen close enough a man will always tell you his intent....Once again his wisdom proves fruitful...

So your issue isnt with their intelligence or how they perform......

Your issue is with their ideological beliefs.......

And there in lies the problem.......

School is not the place to be teaching ideological beliefs.....

Thats a childs right to choose and the parents right to teach what they believe ......

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: smithjustinb

But your indoctrination of your kids with archaic biases and bigotry will serve them well in society?

Yeah, that's logical.

Yet your form of bigotry towards something you dont personally believe in doesnt seem a bit hypocritical to you?

Who are you to tell anyone whats right or whats wrong?

Again we come to the "my belief system is better then yours"

You have no more right to tell anyone what they should believe then they have you.....

Bigotry works both ways, when you insult someone on their belief system you are WORSE then what you accuse them of being, because not only are you displaying the same attitude, your being a hypocrite....

originally posted by: txinfidel
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

no prob pm me anytime you want to discuss whatever without all the hysteria. I would appreciate it.

Will do, and will on the threads as well. I figure, the more foolish attacks against the sources, the more desperate the other side has become.

The social engineering in the schools is out of control. Two threads now on various aspects of that, and there is a lot more we could say. Too many people these days think the government and the schools have a right to control what children learn. They ask if parents "own" the children, but they have no issues with the State acting like they own them. I think that mentality is a result of the brainwashing; earlier generations that got some supporting more, so it gets worse by the year.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Absolutely, the problem is "what is real?"

There are literally thousands of pages of scientific studies which demonstrate conclusively that there are innate differences organically which create differences in romantic objects and sexual/amorous/bonding behaviors. Some factors are genetic, some are pre-natal development, some are post-natal development.

You need to review your statistics. Only 3-5% may identify as "being homosexual" but you will find I think that the frequency of same-sex behaviors, experiences and preferences are more in the 15-20% range, and even higher in some studies.

Mental traumas and fetishes, to my knowledge, have shown no scientific correlation to either identifying as homosexual or experiencing same-sex desires. Do you have links to those studies?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Gryphon66

So your issue isnt with their intelligence or how they perform......

Your issue is with their ideological beliefs.......

And there in lies the problem.......

School is not the place to be teaching ideological beliefs.....

Thats a childs right to choose and the parents right to teach what they believe ......

Not sure how you got that out of my comments, except that you're confirming your own biases about what people who disagree with you believe. My issue IS with their exhibited problem solving ability, general world knowledge, and ability to work with others in team situations. But it is not coincidental that those failures are directly linked to homeschooling that emphasized religious beliefs over real-world knowledge.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Giving valentines does not equate to anything of the sort. At age 5 or 6 most kids give them out to ALL of the kids in the class. Some may give them only to the opposite gender but for the most part the kids give them to EVERYBODY. I am all for tolerance. I believe that everybody should be treated equally no matter how they look (skin color/race wise), who they love, what they practice as a religion and most other factors, but as a parent I feel that I should be able to decide when kids are exposed to LGBTQ tolerance. At age 5 kids don't hate anybody who is gay. My child is 2 and you know what she hates? Steak, big cars and our "no eating in the car" rule. Thats it. She doesnt care whether somebody is gay, transgender or anything else. Her aunt is bi and she doesnt care, her uncle is married to another man and she doesnt care, her mother is bi as well, and im pretty sure she will be the same way, but it doesnt bother her.

I love tolerance, but i hate it being shoved at me and my children. It should be my choice whether or not she is exposed to these things and when. The school went too far. I would transfer schools or homeschool purely on the principle.

Just the opinion of a father.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NihilistSanta

Absolutely, the problem is "what is real?"

There are literally thousands of pages of scientific studies which demonstrate conclusively that there are innate differences organically which create differences in romantic objects and sexual/amorous/bonding behaviors. Some factors are genetic, some are pre-natal development, some are post-natal development.

You need to review your statistics. Only 3-5% may identify as "being homosexual" but you will find I think that the frequency of same-sex behaviors, experiences and preferences are more in the 15-20% range, and even higher in some studies.

Mental traumas and fetishes, to my knowledge, have shown no scientific correlation to either identifying as homosexual or experiencing same-sex desires. Do you have links to those studies?

I don't think those papers are as compelling as you are making them out to be or you would be posting them. We can really only produce those numbers from those who identify so that's what we have to work with. Guesses and that's what they are as to anything else are futile.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: smithjustinb

But your indoctrination of your kids with archaic biases and bigotry will serve them well in society?

Yeah, that's logical.

Yet your form of bigotry towards something you dont personally believe in doesnt seem a bit hypocritical to you?

Who are you to tell anyone whats right or whats wrong?

Again we come to the "my belief system is better then yours"

You have no more right to tell anyone what they should believe then they have you.....

Bigotry works both ways, when you insult someone on their belief system you are WORSE then what you accuse them of being, because not only are you displaying the same attitude, your being a hypocrite....

What bigotry are you talking about? I don't think I made any statements about my personal religious beliefs here.

"Who am I to tell anyone what's right and wrong?" Who are you? Who is anyone? That's a nonsensical question.

Mating and producing a child does not automatically qualify anyone to decide what that person's education and training will be.

We were talking about intellectual capacity to produce technological breakthroughs ... you indicated that resulted somehow from homeschooling. I asked for any references you might have, but stated my understanding in return that is obviously counter to yours.

Science and technology are not "belief systems" ... and if it is your contention that they are merely the results of "different opinions" then we really do have little to say to each other.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You can try and spin this around anyway you want.....

Im just going by what you have posted......you have repeatedly made statements about "antiquated belief systems" and how people with religion are somehow unable to be as intelligent as other people, and how basically these sytems need to be done away with....

you have even admitted at people who are home schooled often perform as well or better then people in public schools....

Repeatedly your theme and hangup has an anti religious undertone.....

thats not a ME thing my friend, thats a YOU thing.

So you can try and make this sound like im turning this around on you all you want, but your words speak very clear....

You have the same ideal as the people pushing this agenda, its not the education you want to change its this apparent "antiquated religious ideas"

"Who am I to tell anyone what's right and wrong?" Who are you? Who is anyone? That's a nonsensical question.

a reply to: Gryphon66

And yet you continue to do so....

I havent presumed to tell anyone they are wrong in their belief systems, infact ive repeatedly said the opposite...

What I HAVE done is pointedly say that its NOT the job of the public education system to make decisions for children w out involving the parents.

You seem to think that as long as its THIS sort of thing youre fine with it......

Im sure if they were insisting on teaching a bible study class and you didnt have a say in it, your attitude would be quite different

a reply to: Divin3F3nrus

Is that because you believe that none of those kids are gay, lesbian, bisexual or trans* themselves? Because some of them are. That is the reality of the situation. That doesn't depend on when you deem your kids "ready" to become aware of that fact.

On topic though I feel that the fact that there is no ability to opt out means that this is a push to control the thoughts of a certain group (the youth).

If they want to teach diversity that's fine but don't cater to special interest. Bullying happens because of a herd mentality that children adopt in school. When something does not fit with the herd it is ostracized. How about they teach people skills so they have purpose and self esteem? All this does is enforce some unrealistic idea in children that grown ups do not bully which isn't true then they don't have the self esteem to deal with it (or any other problems)when it happens to them.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yeah, I'm the one that's spinning.

Are you talking about other posts on other subjects here at ATS or what I've stated in THIS discussion?

The only thing I've said here is that there is nothing wrong with teaching kids not to be bad to other kids who are different than them.

Your perceptions of what I believe and the emphasis you're placing on it are YOUR thing. Why don't you ask instead of telling if you're really interested in a discussion and not sermonizing?

How is it that you are not also pushing an agenda, as is the OP? You share the same ideals as those pushing that agenda ... except of course, your side has the right of it?

LOL, potato/potatoe.

I also think people are forgetting that these videos wont actually stop any bullies from doing what they do since they probably lack empathy and because rules never stopped kids before. So in actuality it just illustrates more so that this is just propaganda.