The Illusion of Human Superiority

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

And this has what to do with respecting animals?

Everything. If we respected animals and appreciated their existence for something other than exploitation, we would take care of them better. But, for the most part, we consume without consideration.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

Have you really spent any time around herd animals?

You mean caged animals confound to fences and barns who's life consists of being exploited usually with the inevitable conclusion of death for human consumption? I have cows in my back yard, but I don't own the farm. I've been in there with them before though.

Seriously... Not your dog or your cat in the house with a can of food and a toy. I mean seriously learning animal habits, communication, feeding etiquette, herd mentality. etc.

I have the same respect for insects as I do dogs as I do cows as I do lions as I do humans. They're all unique and that is the glory of it.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

And this has what to do with respecting animals?

Really?

Try comparative analysis.

We're not as smart as we think we are (if at all), so it would be prudent for us to, if not respect animals, at the very least not have contempt for them.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

Only a fool would walk by a lion unarmed and thats a different kind of respect, but if you think we are animals then it should be a mutual kind of respect, and the reality is it isn't. Your dog doesn't respect you, he loves you he wants to do whatever you want, he wants to please you.

Only a fool would walk by a lion unarmed. You are correct. Its not a mutual respect. You are correct about that as well. But it can be. And its happened to me. And it happened because I decided that we could be equal. You're wrong about my dog doesn't respect me. I've looked my dog in his eyes in a way that we were so much on a level playing field that I could see in his eyes that he considered me part of the pack, as if I was a dog myself. I almost felt like a dog. There was nothing wrong with that either. It was a shift in perspective. Understanding was gained.

Of course approaching a lion unarmed would have him better to survive, put him in a busy intersection and see who survives. This isn't about survival, it's about respect, and a lion doesn't respect me, I am dinner. He would show me no more respect than he would a zebra. Both tasty.

Of course he doesn't respect you. Im not disputing that. I fully believe that if you showed him respect though, in a non-hostile or fearful way, in a confident way, and assuming he's not hungry, you could look him in the eye and he wouldn't automatically attack you. I'm not advising this, but I'm saying it can be done, and you would each have an understanding with each other.

Animals respect strength and violence, I know they can also love, and feel sorrow for the death of another. But they don't respect for intelligence, creativity, education, breeding, or family as humans do.

Their intelligence is their survivability and their awareness and its respected. I gotta end this reply short because I have to go. We'll talk more about it later maybe.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

And this has what to do with respecting animals?

Really?

Try comparative analysis.

We're not as smart as we think we are (if at all), so it would be prudent for us to, if not respect animals, at the very least not have contempt for them.

I have contempt for people never animals they are who they are and to expect anything different makes you a fool and future dinner for a predator. We are not as smart as we think we are I will agree, but we are a hell of a lot smarter than animals. As I said before what animal can build a city, administer life saving first aid to another, or at the very least grow their own food?

Comparative Analysis of what humans versus animals? There is no comparison.. Maybe if they could vote and create their own form of government they would create laws forbidding us from eating them.

This isn't harsh this is reality, harsh would be running flat out while a lion jumps on your back a takes a bite out of your neck, ask any zebra they get it. While we are at it put on a pair of zebra pants and run across Africa and let me know how the comparative analysis thing goes for you while you're trying to get respect from a man eater. As you negotiate for your life twisted up and bleeding having your insides eaten, his response will be.....Yum!

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

I have contempt for people never animals they are who they are and to expect anything different makes you a fool and future dinner for a predator. We are not as smart as we think we are I will agree, but we are a hell of a lot smarter than animals. As I said before what animal can build a city, administer life saving first aid to another, or at the very least grow their own food?

That's the thing though. Most of our "intelligence" comes from the ability to use symbols (language, numbers, etc.). Its really not that much more intelligent. Our technology builds up over time, and it looks like we are leaps and bounds more intelligent than everything else, when really, the only difference is, we know how to use symbols. Animals lack that ability, but they're not stupid. They don't prove their intelligence through manifesting their thoughts as objects, but they are very intelligent. They have social intelligence. Respect for them is a means to establish a social connection for greater communication.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

I have contempt for people never animals they are who they are and to expect anything different makes you a fool and future dinner for a predator. We are not as smart as we think we are I will agree, but we are a hell of a lot smarter than animals. As I said before what animal can build a city, administer life saving first aid to another, or at the very least grow their own food?

That's the thing though. Most of our "intelligence" comes from the ability to use symbols (language, numbers, etc.). Its really not that much more intelligent. Our technology builds up over time, and it looks like we are leaps and bounds more intelligent than everything else, when really, the only difference is, we know how to use symbols. Animals lack that ability, but they're not stupid. They don't prove their intelligence through manifesting their thoughts as objects, but they are very intelligent. They have social intelligence. Respect for them is a means to establish a social connection for greater communication.

So give me an example of an intelligent animal, and what they are capable of.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

So give me an example of an intelligent animal, and what they are capable of.

Its not about technological capability. That doesn't define mental fortitude as much as most humans think it does. There's a lot more to being intelligent than being able to use symbols and understanding complex math to make stuff. Technology mostly serves survival. Technology is just the human way to survive. Other animals have their own methods to survive. We're different. But that doesn't make them unintelligent.

Animals are intelligent because they know what they need to know and its all they need to know. Cats know that that if they scratch on your door or meow real sweet, they can manipulate your emotions to give them food. They know that they're being manipulative. They're cunning and controlling.

They know how to survive. That's all we know as well. We just do it different. Granted, our knowledge and approach to survival might result in applications of technology that don't directly affect our survival, but they are applications that stem from the drive towards survival.

I didn't say we're not smarter than them. I did say we aren't that much smarter than them. While animals tend to deal with the survival of themselves (a lot of humans do too), humans tend to deal with the survival of the species. See the hierarchy here? Something more intelligent than a human would try to deal with the survival of the planet and all species. We do that to a degree, but to give credit to the animals, they sometimes deal with the survival of something more than themselves as well.

But, again, this thread isn't mainly about intelligence. This thread about animals deserving equal respect as humans. They do. They deserve respect because they endure a lot. They have life that they live to their fullest. Eating animals is fine and necessary. But just because you eat animals doesn't mean you can't respect them. You don't eat every animal you see. So the ones that are alive, you can respect while they live. If you look at the spirit of some humans, you can imagine that some, if they had to live a day as a cat, couldn't do it. There are a lot of weak people. But all cats have to be strong. So, that's why I say cats deserve equal respect as humans. Some humans couldn't handle the pressures of being a cat, if they were a cat.