D-Day remembered 70 years on - exploding the myths.

My great uncle was part of the 101st on D-Day. He was wounded in the battle, but recovered and insisted on rejoining his brethren. He was very happy when I entered the army. When he died, he left me his purple heart and expert infantry badge. I am proud to have shared DNA, however little, with this man.

a reply to: skunkape23

Yes, I wonder what would've happened if Hitler had not tried to invade Russia. Would the war have turned out entirely different?

Thought people may find this as staggering and moving as I did.

Click link for all images and story

The Fallen: 9000 Figures Hand-Drawn in the Sand for D-Day

weburbanist.com...

I don't have any quotes to post. No fancy words. Nothing poigniant to say.

Just a simple and heartfelt thank you to the men that performed this amazing sacrifice. I will always remember what you did, and the circumstances under which you did it.

a reply to: neformore

actually did defend our freedoms

I cant agree enough. I am not trying to crap on those in uniform when I say this, so please no flaming:

The right to say that "you defend the freedoms" we enjoy is the PRIVILEGE of those who actually did. WW2 vets to name one group of an HONORED FEW.

You aren't less of a person or less worthy for not being able to honestly say it after serving, but you do cheapen it when you do. If our freedoms weren't going to be stripped from us by an invading enemy or force, then you only have honor as a soldier in following your orders faithfully. That is really all there is to it. Its no small thing. Its just not the most sacred service as is the real defence of our freedoms. THAT is special and sacred.

I do think giving your life as a soldier, selflessly to your people and country is one of the most honorable things you can do. No one would say different and not be wrong as hell.

I just don't think the gulf wars were being fought to secure our peoples freedom for example. I won't crap on you for your service. All the contrary. I do thank you for it. Just know it is BS everytime you say you "defended our freedoms". From whom Saddam? I didn't know he was even capable of invading us and conquering us.

Cheap forms of patriotism rot our self image and form nationalism. In the process they DESTROY the worth and reality of true patriotism.
They also displace the worth of our greatest people, as these men were some of our greatest. Their struggle was GREATER. That is why they should be honored differently and more reverently than the average person in uniform who is just following orders as a loyal and faithful soldier to his country and people.

We arent a great country for being able to destroy other countries, or kill other peoples efficiently, or even because we "dominate" the world. That mentality cheapens the worth of us as a people and strips us as a people of our true pride and the very real strength it can offer. Our pride in our small towns, large cities, and all inbetween. We lose sight of the value of our greatest achievements of mind, soul, those brimming with heart, our people and land. That is what these men were defending from oblivion.

I dont care if we have the crappiest military in the world. I would be content if we could defend our country from anyone thinking of hurting it.

I care about our ethos, our customs, our ideology, our idiosyncrasy, our wealth, our peace, and our freedom. That is what used to define the US for example as well as our allies before superpowerdom. That is still who we are even though we have forgotten.

Great thread. Thanks.

Heros should never be forgotten.

We owe them all an enormous debt of gratitude.
I can't even begin to comprehend to the true extent of the horrors they endured and the dignity and bravery that they all showed.

It tends to put all our petty bickering into perspective.

a reply to: Bluesma

France lifts restrictions on D-Day video coverage

PARIS – France on Wednesday dropped restrictions on live video coverage of ceremonies this week marking the 70th anniversary of the D-Day invasion of Normandy, ensuring that millions of viewers across the world will be able to watch the event as it unfolds.

The French president's office and two French broadcasters had earlier refused to let news agencies and online news providers distribute the live broadcast free of charge, prompting protests from international news organizations. The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse, and ENEX, a news exchange for European commercial broadcasters, repeatedly requested open access to the broadcast for their 1,500 subscribers around the world.

After weeks of refusal, host broadcasters France Televisions and TF1 on Wednesday offered news agencies unfettered access to live coverage of the main international ceremony Friday. President Obama, Queen Elizabeth II and other world leaders will join aging veterans to honor those who fought to liberate Normandy from Nazi occupation.

"Because of the exceptional character of the event and at the request of the president's office, the signal will be available for free," the broadcasters' note read.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: MRM13
I think it's important to remember how young many of them were too. This was emphasised in BBC this morning when they were talking to a surviving veteran who said about the lads who lied about their age to sign up, so that even now some of the graves have the wrong ages on them.

Never was so much owed by so many to so few.
- Winston Churchill

Thank you for posting the quote by Winston Churchill.

The quote was actually for the pilots of The Battle Of Britain
However, it is apt also for the invasion forces on 6th June 1944

My apologies and no disrespect intended. I was looking at the situation in the sense that without everything that came before D Day, D-Day may never have been possible or gone horribly worse.

a reply to: Xcathdra


There was not a ban, there was a fee , which was proposed, and then revoked the same day.
( a ban is to officially or legally prohibit something).
Sales of coverage rights to media are a common practice in France and they hadn't foreseen the way foreigners would perceive that.

Yes, I am being pedantic, but the media can spin things in a whole different way with one wrong word, influencing the opinions of the public (in this case, I am just waiting for the usual slurs and nonsense about the french and their lack of appreciation for the americans, which bothers me, because I have to listen to them always preaching their awe and respect to the americans for that).

originally posted by: MrSpad
I took a staff ride to the landing beaches when I was stationed in Germany. I have been in some # but, I could not imagine what it must have been like for those guys. It is nothing short of a miracle they pulled it off.

Many didnt especially when you realize how well the area was defended these were not the kind of beeches most think of they only had a ten day window during full moon. They needed the tide low to expose the defenses the germans hid in the surf. But the problem was it made the beaches very long meaning you had to go along way to get to cover. Thanks to Hitler te invasion was successful He was so confident an invasion was coming across the channel he wouldn't allow his generals to move troops south had they done this it would have been over. Even after the allied forces started moving inland Hitler still thought it was just a diversion buying the allies enough time to form a beachhead.

Had Hitler been a better general D Day would have been a total disaster.

a reply to: neformore

Hi, starred and flagged. My stepdad was one of those who fought and landed on the beach and was one of the luckier ones. He survived the landing, survived the war and only got caught up in a trip wire and banged up his foot, though later gangrene set in and eventually he lost his leg up to his knee, but he survived to live to be 86. He never spoke of it much, unless on the occasional occasion when he was hanging with Jim Beam, or Jack Daniels or B&B or just Ale...but as mean of an SOB he was, at the end of the day he gets my respect. Him and all the rest; which they are few and far between lef now. So peace be with them all and a great big thank you.

a reply to: Bluesma

You mean like a ban on foreign media being allowed live coverage of an event that does not solely belong to France?

I am not going to disrupt this thread any more than you and I already have but needless to say foreign media was banned unless they paid. A ban is a ban, no matter how you try and label it as a fee.

a reply to: neformore

I am going to tackle the Myths James Holland deals with in the CNN article .

1. MYTH: D-Day was predominantly an American operation

The Royal Navy had overall responsibility for Operation Neptune, the naval plan. Of the 1,213 warships involved, 200 were American and 892 were British; of the 4,126 landing craft involved, 805 were American and 3,261 were British.

James is spot on here and provides a redeeming quality for the article. Up until fifteen years ago American historians did tend to turn there noses down at the contributions made by British Empire forces to the winning the war.

2. MYTH: American forces were ill-prepared
REALITY: By the end of World War II the United States had the best armed services in the world. The 77-day Normandy campaign did much to help them reach this point.

I have been a life long WW2 bluff . From memory I first read about the D-day landings when I was about eight years old and this is the first time I have encounter this myth. Does this mean that the Myth doesn't exist? Of course not but this does strike me as a manufactured myth.

3. MYTH: The Allies became bogged down in Normandy
REALITY: In the pre-invasion estimates for the Normandy campaign, the Allies expected to be roughly 50 miles inland after 17 days, based on German retreats in North Africa and Italy

The breakout from Normandy needs to be seen as a separate campaign from the D-Day landing and airborne operations. Once the allies had secured the beach heads the Germans had no way of stopping the invasion of Normandy. The German accounts of D-day that have appeared in numerous books and documentaries state that the naval bombardment caused wide spread deafness and concussion but little damage to the Atlantic Wall.

Once you get beyond the breakout of the beach head the topic becomes a matter of historical debate between the supporters of Generals Patton and General Montgomery as military commanders.

4. MYTH: German soldiers were better trained than their Allied counterparts
REALITY: At the start of World War II the best German units were more than a match for their Allied opposition -- but by 1944 that had changed radically. There were a few exceptions, such as the Panzer Lehr, but come D-Day most German units were not as well trained as the Allies.

I regard this as a fair comment beyond that I will leave my thoughts until the next myth.

5. MYTH: The Germans had stronger tactical skills
REALITY: The dogged determination of the Germans to fight during D-Day is often confused with tactical skill. It shouldn't. The best analogy is with more recent conflicts like Afghanistan or even Vietnam, when Western forces had the best training and kit yet struggled to defeat a massively inferior enemy. As the Taliban have shown, it is very difficult to completely defeat your enemy if they don't want to be defeated. The only way to do that is to kill them all.

The German units that had served on the Eastern front were vastly experienced at using defence in depth. As a general rule individual German soldiers were much more likely to surrender to the allied forces in France than they were the Soviets if they were serving on the Eastern Front.

The Nazi regime fanaticism was displayed by the fact they conscripted kids to the German Army to meet man power shortages caused by there losses on the Russian front. Many of these kids manned the Atlantic Wall in the Normandy area. If you choose to extend your analysis to beyond the allied beach heads than the Germans didn't fight fanatically until they were defending there homeland across the Rhine.

6. MYTH: America and Britain got off lightly in World War II

Due to the way James presents this myth or argument it makes little sense.

a reply to: texasgirl

No, the war was already won when the U.S stole Einstein from the Germans. Even if Germany and Japan had combined, it would have taken them a few years to attack the U.S, in which case, the U.S would have had time to build up more atomic bombs(there were only 3 at the time, I think the Japanese got spooked. If they had held out just a little longer, then they could have fought the U.S to the death. The U.S still would have won, but it would have been a bloodbath).

Anyway, as long as the nationalistic sentiments are toned down, I think it's good to reminisce about these things, and listen to some of the war stories.

Also, I think you have to give some credit to the Germans, it was 1 against 4 other technological powers(whereas the Japanese had a free lunch in Asia by fighting mostly farmers), and they almost won.

Finally, if you go back 700 years earlier, it's kind of crazy to think that the Mongolians stopped right at the Germans' borders. It's almost like they sensed some kind of kindred spirit and just turned back(if you exclude the UK, Western Europe is quite small, so basically, civilization was saved by the narrowest of margins, and it's not like the Mongolians couldn't even beat the Germans, they actually beat some of the Germanic tribes, and I think we can see that the Germans are pretty much elite at "hand-to-hand" combat, so if the Mongolians had conquered Germany, they could have conquered the world).

a reply to: skunkape23

While the Russians did indeed contribute the most, it should be noted that they also raped 2 million German women in "revenge."

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Bluesma

You mean like a ban on foreign media being allowed live coverage of an event that does not solely belong to France?

I am not going to disrupt this thread any more than you and I already have but needless to say foreign media was banned unless they paid. A ban is a ban, no matter how you try and label it as a fee.

Traditionally only one or two of the public french channels are awarded the free coverage rights of any big event, all others must pay a fee. That is whether they are french or not.
In this case, an exception was made and it bacame free for all.

I am not banned from having food, or a home, or a car, because I must pay for them to get them.

I am banned from carrying coc aine on me. There is a difference.

It IS relevant to "exploding the myths" of D Day, as I pointed out-

One of the myths is that the french hate americans and do not appreciate what was done for them back then.

Twisted media lies gave birth to that myth, and continue to do so. Denying ignorance is obviously my thing or I wouldn't be here.

I live in Portsmouth, England, where most of the ships leaving for the Normandy beaches sailed from. This week we have been having a whole load of D-Day celebrations alongside those held in France. There is a veterans village on the seafront where a lot of the remaining veterans are based for the celebrations. Not all of the veterans want to return to the beaches that presumably hold some pretty horrible memories for them, but they still choose to gather together and remember those that did not return.
I was walking past the D-day museum yesterday where there is a bronze sculpture of a sitting, lone, soldier with his helmet at his feet and his rifle standing beside him. The inscription reads "A soldier of World War 2"; the sculpture represents all of those that did not make it through the second world war. In front of this statue stood a veteran, wearing a blazer with his medals attached and his regimental beret; he was saluting the statue. As i drew nearer i could see the tears rolling down his cheeks, and then a younger man (presumably his grandson) stepped forward, put his hand on his shoulder and led him away.
It takes a lot to choke me up, but I don't mind admitting that witnessing that really brought tears to my eyes. We owe that generation our freedom, and we should never forget the sacrifice of those that did not survive and those that did, but gave, what should have been, the best years of their life so that we may live in freedom.