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Megalithic Cultures: Were They Influenced by an Advanced and Forgotten Civilization?

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posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:53 AM
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Lee's book refers to an historical quote of one Spaniard who described the Inca building method:


"When those Indians built those proud and sumptuous buildings, or a fortress, in order to put one large stone on another they worked it first, and before raising it, first put much earth at the foot of it, and level with, the first placed stone. And then they put some long, thick andirons (posts?) of pine over the packed earth, and there raised the other stone by force of arms. And in this manner, being above, they fit it well into that below it. And as the building grew, they placed more well packed and trampled earth at the feet of the fitted stones and put other larger beams by which they raised the other stones, which were excessively large. After this was done, they took away the beams and all the earth and then the wall done without any mortar."


Gutierrez de Santa Clara, Historia de las Guerras Civiles del Peru, ca. 1590

Illustrations of the method (images belong to Vincent R. Lee):






Video: go to around the 24:00 mark for the scribing. The video also covers the massive suspension bridges the Inca built using just grasses.



Cover from: The Building of Sacsayhuaman (Lee) (megalithic-mysteries.com)



According to Lee's Web site, the scribing method was again demonstrated in 2010. The NOVA program is available here:

NOVA: The Lost Inca Empire (PBS.org)

Of course, researchers can't definitively say "this was how it was done," since we have no writing from the Inca themselves.
edit on 12-6-2014 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: Harte

Thanks for the reply and Info Harte, you always have good comments. I'm no expert in this area but I would have to think that much of the data of early migrations ect is lost as shorelines have moved so much over time. It would be very good archaeologically speaking if we were to investigate the sediment off the coasts for evidence of settlements. Probably not much left at those spots, but maybe they would give us more insights into the development of early human civilization/migration.

The similarities between vastly seperated pockets of early humanity seem to show too many commonalities to be just coincidences.

As someone stated here, maybe the predecessors of the Phoenicians were kind of the pony express of early mankind, spreading the same ideas over a pretty wide area.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Harte

OK harte I am sorry for drawing that unjustified comparison, the captain was also blackened by history when in fact he was most likely under orders by the owner of the white star line or I am sure with his long career experience and safety record he would never had sailed under full steam in those conditions with ice berg warning's.
But they history seldom paints the truest of pictures and mostly it is about nameless people.
I Also warrent your point were David hatcher childress is concerned, he is a modern von daniken though I would not really like to put him as low as daniken as I have seen no evidence of false evidence on his part and only radically un orthodox interpretation by him and those whom he sources, plus he is a rather entertaining read.
Still though dated and much if not all that is stated in those videos in in dispute they do indeed play well into this thread and like any trial by jury where you are the prosectution (most of the time) the defence deserves the right to try to construct a case and present that to the jury and I believe both sides have merit even if not in one anothers eye's and the jury being the neutral body has to be given the arguement by both sides and presented the information that they may arrive at there conclusions, but it is also worth noting that many innocent victim's of a well constructed prosecution went to the gallow's but also many guilty escaped likewise for a well presented defence.
There are some conspiracy's which are genuinely crazy but some are worth looking at and this is one of them, especially when neither side has concise evidence.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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If those stones were cut with chisels I'd be a monkey's uncle. I can't get stone masons to do it that well with advanced cutting machines. Just sayin'.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
I Also warrent your point were David hatcher childress is concerned, he is a modern von daniken though I would not really like to put him as low as daniken as I have seen no evidence of false evidence on his part and only radically un orthodox interpretation by him and those whom he sources, plus he is a rather entertaining read.

He is as bad if not worse than EVD, you've probably not read that much of his tripe.

Regarding his entertainment value, I would agree that, if forced, I'd prefer to read him rather than listen to him.

His voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard. His stupidity is evidenced in every episode of "Ancient Aliens," along with his unbearable voice.

At any rate, why don't you just list the several things from those six hours of vid (I'm sure that many are duplicated in the two vids) and tell us what you think? Or, at least list what's in the 3 videos, you know nobody's going to sit here for 5-1/2 hours watching them anyway. I'm not here to talk with Childress. I prefer two (or more)-sided conversations.

Harte



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: Harte

Touche hart and I will counter with this, what were the mysterious holes for, why are the better preserved ones at least as smooth as a modern bore sampling drill would make, why are the stones to such a high tolerance that we do not even build to that level today and even our computer controlled stone cutting tool's would have difficulty not to mention being too small to handle many of these blocks and why would someone build a city just below the frost line were crops struggle to grow (Or was the region upthrust in a cataclysm much more recently as evidenced by the almost identical animals with only small genetic adaptations to the fauna at sea level off the coast so was lake titicaca a bay that was isolated and upthrust very recently indeed).
Against earth crust is the presence of thermal plumes, I am sure you know what they are hawaii was formed by one and there are several around the world which show potential conclusive evidence of havind remained under the same or very slowly moving crust for millions of years as in hawaii which has a stream of older hawaiian islands along in a streight line leading away from the present islands and which once stood above the waves until there crust moved off of the thermal plume, mechanically this would seem implausible if earth crust displacement was right as a theory but then how did the mammoth freeze in an instant with buttercups which do not grow at that lattitude in there mouths and stomach's.
Why were the ruins of Tiwanaku or as I alway's spelled it Tiahuanaku and it's adjacent large sea sized port facility of Puma Punku whose ruins are even more impressive than the more famous Tiwanaku buried under mud at that altitude (remember they were build on high ground) and in the case of Puma punku had stones waying tens of metric tons hurled around like a child's building block's, is this not evidence of a massive catastrophy.
Religion may cause people to perform seemingly inhuman feats and work to a level that even today we would find hard to replicate but this ancient city of the god's as it seem's to have served as a ceremonial center is impressive weather it is 12000 years or 2000 and deserves these questions answered correctly, as you know the altitude can give mose low landers mild hypoxia until they acclimatize but Hart there is evidence there, of what is the question and just because it is unpallitable to yourself should not turn you into an obituary writing food critic intent of having the restaurant demolished because the chef never put enough salt into your soup.
Now hart here is what I believe.
There was an ancient civilisation, weater us or not is up there as a matter I can not frame but I believe it was human, I do not believe in the ancient astronaut theory except under the possibility that they originated here and even time travel is still a potential no matter how many physycists it gives a headache too.
There are convincing footprints in ancient rock, if the earth crust displacement is right and an alternative mechanism can be expressed to explain the seemingly long duration static location in relation to the earths crust of the thermal plumes then every 41 thousand years we go into a long winter and long summer (we are at about spring with hotter weather to come followed by cooling (And this is correct with or withouth crustal displacement) and the northern and southern regions become more habitable due to weather patterns and longer summers (longer day's and more summer melting) which compensate for the longer winters (Longer nights in winter) as evidenced by the previous interglacial period which saw much of southern europe a savannah including britain with giraff, lion, hypopotamus, ostrich and all the african fauna) while at the persod when the day's and nights are more even summer and winter as the axis is more vertical to the rotation then the weather patterns would be more likely to maintain winds toward the equator while the even temperature and reduced weather pattern would allow cooling at the polar regions thus fomenting the necessary build up of ice into continent sized ice fields with the resultant centrifugal imabalance hapgood envisioned as a mechanism for the displacement.
So in that where would that city have been if the global flood myth of most people, the land which froze of the persian and central european peoples whom referred to a land of fruit trees and pleasent weather which froze and only living in an underground ark saved them, couples with the many myths around the world, the probable ensuing tidal waves caused by the crustal displacement, the earthquakes and the regional weather alterations creating mass starvation and bringing farming to a stop as well as likey wiping the farmers, the ports', the empires and kingdoms, the tribes out.
If it is possible than Hancock is vindicated in as far as his theory is then plausible.
edit on 12-6-2014 by LABTECH767 because: Gahh spelling
edit on 12-6-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Touche hart and I will counter with this, what were the mysterious holes for, why are the better preserved ones at least as smooth as a modern bore sampling drill would make,

I'd need to know which holes you're talking about here. By the description, it seems you mean holes cut by tube saws, as was demonstrated by everyone's favorite pseudoengineer Chris Dunn on the show "Ancient Aliens."


originally posted by: LABTECH767 why are the stones to such a high tolerance that we do not even build to that level today and even our computer controlled stone cutting tool's would have difficulty not to mention being too small to handle many of these blocks and why would someone build a city just below the frost line were crops struggle to grow (Or was the region upthrust in a cataclysm much more recently as evidenced by the almost identical animals with only small genetic adaptations to the fauna at sea level off the coast so was lake titicaca a bay that was isolated and upthrust very recently indeed).

You appear to be referring to the Tiahuanaco site (which includes Puma Punku) here.

Are you aware that the site has produced irrefutable evidence of vast (even by today's standards) agricultural fields and huge irrigation systems for use in them?

The area was inhabited by thousands of people that utilized the products of this agriculture, as well as the water associated with it.

originally posted by: LABTECH767 Against earth crust is the presence of thermal plumes, I am sure you know what they are hawaii was formed by one and there are several around the world which show potential conclusive evidence of havind remained under the same or very slowly moving crust for millions of years as in hawaii which has a stream of older hawaiian islands along in a streight line leading away from the present islands and which once stood above the waves until there crust moved off of the thermal plume, mechanically this would seem implausible if earth crust displacement was right as a theory but then how did the mammoth freeze in an instant with buttercups which do not grow at that lattitude in there mouths and stomach's.

Glad to see you, at least, got the buttercups part right. Usually, the uninformed simply state it was "tropical vegetation."

No mammoth was frozen in an instant. The mammoths referred to in this idiotic fable (by Von Daniken, BTW) died in Siberia over vastly different periods of time, unquestionably during various migrations.

As for the buttercups:


Ranunculus gelidus ; Details

Arctic Buttercup
SNIP
Habitat

Open arctic and alpine slopes; 0-4000m.

Source

originally posted by: LABTECH767 Why were the ruins of Tiwanaku or as I alway's spelled it Tiahuanaku and it's adjacent large sea sized port facility of Puma Punku whose ruins are even more impressive than the more famous Tiwanaku buried under mud at that altitude (remember they were build on high ground) and in the case of Puma punku had stones waying tens of metric tons hurled around like a child's building block's, is this not evidence of a massive catastrophy.

There was no port there, and where did you get the idea that the sites were buried under mud?

Both sites were "mined" for cut stone by the locals long before the Spaniards ever got there. What, did they dig up these stones?


originally posted by: LABTECH767 Religion may cause people to perform seemingly inhuman feats and work to a level that even today we would find hard to replicate but this ancient city of the god's as it seem's to have served as a ceremonial center is impressive weather it is 12000 years or 2000 and deserves these questions answered correctly, as you know the altitude can give mose low landers mild hypoxia until they acclimatize but Hart there is evidence there, of what is the question and just because it is unpallitable to yourself should not turn you into an obituary writing food critic intent of having the restaurant demolished because the chef never put enough salt into your soup.

The site has no greater altitude than La Paz, which is about 45 miles away.

Are people struggling in La Paz?


originally posted by: LABTECH767Now hart here is what I believe.
There was an ancient civilisation, weater us or not is up there as a matter I can not frame but I believe it was human, I do not believe in the ancient astronaut theory except under the possibility that they originated here and even time travel is still a potential no matter how many physycists it gives a headache too.
There are convincing footprints in ancient rock, if the earth crust displacement is right and an alternative mechanism can be expressed to explain the seemingly long duration static location in relation to the earths crust of the thermal plumes then every 41 thousand years we go into a long winter and long summer (we are at about spring with hotter weather to come followed by cooling (And this is correct with or withouth crustal displacement) and the northern and southern regions become more habitable due to weather patterns and longer summers (longer day's and more summer melting) which compensate for the longer winters (Longer nights in winter) as evidenced by the previous interglacial period which saw much of southern europe a savannah including britain with giraff, lion, hypopotamus, ostrich and all the african fauna) while at the persod when the day's and nights are more even summer and winter as the axis is more vertical to the rotation then the weather patterns would be more likely to maintain winds toward the equator while the even temperature and reduced weather pattern would allow cooling at the polar regions thus fomenting the necessary build up of ice into continent sized ice fields with the resultant centrifugal imabalance hapgood envisioned as a mechanism for the displacement.
So in that where would that city have been if the global flood myth of most people, the land which froze of the persian and central european peoples whom referred to a land of fruit trees and pleasent weather which froze and only living in an underground ark saved them, couples with the many myths around the world, the probable ensuing tidal waves caused by the crustal displacement, the earthquakes and the regional weather alterations creating mass starvation and bringing farming to a stop as well as likey wiping the farmers, the ports', the empires and kingdoms, the tribes out.
If it is possible than Hancock is vindicated in as far as his theory is then plausible.

That would be okay, but for the fact that the theory is implausible.

Harte



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: Harte

Sorry about the late reply I have been having problems with my connection and some port scan attacks on my system from turkey (i am in britain), A star as that is a very good answer non of which I can argue but harte weather right or wrong you must feel there is something not right about the chronology of the site, Yes mining of stones is more then plausible especially when you know how ninevah was rediscovered after the locals told about the hill which was a good place to mine for brick.
As I point out I do not espouse the ancient alien theory but I do think there was sufficiant time and enough geological disruption to cover a large number of civilizations and hide them from modern eyes without any human interferance but add in the human interferance then you can also factor in the same mechanism of older ruins being robbed out.
Do you have any idea how many vast truly impressive castles in the UK alone ended up as dry stone wall's guarding sheep, or how many iron age hill forts where altered to a unrecognizable degree by norman's who used them as foundation for there castles, of course the larger ones are easily detected but the people here where buidling hill forts for over a thousand years before the Roman invasion.
I would love to have a proper look at those ruins off the north west of cuba but that is unlikely as it has gone too quiet even though all they would prove is a previous unknown city of probably mesoamerican origin little different to other great sites and no I do not buy the natural explanation on that one.
As for ancient science (not ancient astronaut theory) I do think it plausible, they did not have to be us just look how many times the feline model of evolution was played out before the modern feline family tree though all those previous cat like species are extinct (Even the last tasmanian tiger which was of course a marcupial) or the number of times the Rhino model was re evolved, or further back how many times the same model for the dinosaur sub species especially the predators was evolved over and over again to the point where there are several tyranosaur like dino's at various points over the 200 million odd years they dominated the planet.
So could it therefore be plausible that given the success of the human form that other similar forms may have evolved but we have simply not found accepted traces of them, I say plausibe not actual remember.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: jeep3r
Or maybe we shouldn't. There are plenty of links between cultures, even today most cultures are a blend of what you would call Americanism, and one day some centuries from now when somebody digs up a stone tablet in what was japan and another in what was the continental US, there will be no doubt many things that are similar if you were to look so yes there are plenty of links between cultures even if by coincidence or the fact that certain stone working techniques work better then others at the time, there is bound to be many similarities, however the similarities written in stone are a bit more long lasting. But you know things come and things go, things such as peoples, cultures, even entire civilizations sometimes disappear overnight. What can I say sometimes # happens, and then it will be left for others to interpret what happened, and you can bet they will get it wrong.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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Interesting subject and well presented post. The history of civilization is one of the most fascinating fields of study, and although archeologists and other scientists often will have you believe that they are fairly certain what happened where and when; there's nevertheless a subtle sense that there's a major piece of the puzzle missing and that it's just waiting to be discovered.

The similarity in architecture between early Mesopotamian and Meso-American cultures is hard to ignore, as you have pointed out very well in the opening post.

One thing that comes to mind whenever this subject is brought up, is that in both Easter Island and (correct me if I'm wrong) Inca legends, there was apparently a "red haired" people present in those times. The genes which expressed this feature may be since gone, but it is interesting that Egyptian royalty and Pre-Incan royalty were not the only ones who practiced the tradition of skull binding. The Huns of the Eurasian steplands also did this, and some legend claim that the great Mongol emperor Genghis Khan had red hair as well; even though most people believe that he had the stereotypical Mongolian look with fair skin, long black hair and almond shaped eyes.
Is it unreasonable to speculate that the genes related to the fairly often reported red hair, the practice of skull binding in ancient times and the architectural similarities between Egyptian and Pre-Inca cultures have their origin somewhere in Mesopotamia? More specifically around what today is the Middle East, which is also where the oldest remains of civilization have been found. The Eurasian steplands aren't that far away from that area after all.

But then, if there was a since lost civilization of which no historical traces have been found; where was it, when was it present and who were they?

I may be out on a limb here with all the speculations about the red hair and skull binding (which actually may be more commonly known as 'head binding') but this subject is quite intruiging regardless.

Disclaimer:
I am not making refence to ancient aliens. The legend of Atlantis however may have been inspired by older legends about another, earlier civilization perhaps.
edit on 16-6-2014 by ABeing because: Added disclaimer



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: ABeing

There is a common mistake about the oldest traces of civilization, it is an antiquated theory about the fertile crescent being the seed of all civilization, this is true for europe and near asia but africa had egypt which is about the same age, there are claim's that older traces of agrictulture using current interpretation of dating to about 8000 years old in china where rice paddy's have been identified and carbonised rice grains found, the three massive ruined city's under the gulf of khambaht off india,
en.wikipedia.org...
Of course national pride could be at stake though older city's than mesopotamian though thought of as hunter gatherer city's as there is no indication of agriculture do exist, Lepenski Viir on the danube which may have been a cultic site and in turkey Catak Huyak which was a city of room's very similar to some found in arizona in america form a later american culture, they had no door's or window's and entered via ladders from the roof which made there site hard to attack and granted shared defence.
I actually believe in creation but am giving you these as examples, here is some more about them.
www.atlasobscura.com...
archaeology.about.com...
www.pnas.org...
www.japantimes.co.jp...
Of course most of this is based on ethnocentric view so it would be a matter of pride for some nations to claim they were here first but then the dating technology is also far from irrefutable in many cases.
I would like to believe the mesoptamians were the first but they appeared with the base 12 numerical system (we still use in the hours of the day), the number ZERO, the decimal point, grannery's and a grain based economy with a professional army paid in grain, education, written language all of which would seem to indicate an older origin unless they were the savant's of there day and just exploded with all these innovations, of course for the purpose of there age the decimal point and even the zero seem far more than they needed as such a civilization work's perfectly well with fractional mathematic's and that is what most civilization ran on until the middle ages when arabic scholars re invented the zero and the decimal point, however they are useful for astronomical mathematic's.
And remember before them there was supposedly nothing but hunter gatherer's.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 01:11 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Howdy LT767

Just a question you seem to be assigning to the early Sumerians the abilities of their later brethren. Just to clarify what year (circa) are you suggesting they had this skills?

They may have arrived as HG but they came into the lands of the Ubadians who were already agrarians. Some also hold that there was a Semitic group there too. Over a number of centuries their culture obtained a number of technological advances,

There zero was not a true or full zero, they were not used at the end of number nor as place holders.

I think you meant a base 60 instead 12, or where you referring to the 24 hour clock.

I would recommend looking at how writing developed over thousands of years from language, to tokens to inscriptions

Development of writing

It didn't arrive fully formed into Mesopotamia.
edit on 28/6/14 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 05:20 AM
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a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you hanslune I am quoting from memory but of course that is unreliable at best, I am not idetic, you are correct, still they were a fascinating culture whom appeared almost whole, there is a possibility that they came from india as well but given the mysterious circular megalithic ruins on the south african platau and now thought to be possible 200.000 years old (I think they are younger but then I am biased on religious ground's) then though they too may have been hunter gatherer (though the large population would seem to indicate otherwise unless they simply inhabited the same region with the same culture for a very long time and the ruins are not form the same period but express a much longer habitation of a lower density population) these therefore would show a far older civilization than anything outside of africa and so old we know nothing about them other than there ruins marking the landscape.
www.michaeltellinger.com...
But could this be the mother of all civilizations, one whose descendant's spread the idea up the east african coast and out to the rest of the world, or is it an example of an isolated and lost period with lower culture both before and after.
I suppose it is a question we will never really know.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:48 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: ABeing

There is a common mistake about the oldest traces of civilization, it is an antiquated theory about the fertile crescent being the seed of all civilization, this is true for europe and near asia but africa had egypt which is about the same age, there are claim's that older traces of agrictulture using current interpretation of dating to about 8000 years old in china where rice paddy's have been identified and carbonised rice grains found, the three massive ruined city's under the gulf of khambaht off india,



Key to understanding Mesopotamian influence on the world are found in efforts of unification. Yellow Emperor China, Narmer Egypt ect. Egypt was unified by the first dynasty out of Sumer. Up until about 3000 bc the world operated in a city state world.....then came the great unification efforts.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Hanslune

as well but given the mysterious circular megalithic ruins on the south african platau and now thought to be possible 200.000 years old (I think they are younger but then I am biased on religious ground's)


Not to worry that date of 200,000 years was just made up, the circles are mainly Kraals or caused by Psammotermes allocerus

Tellinger is a remarkably good source for exciting non scientific based story telling

There are probably a fair number of proto cultures we have only limited data on



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

Scholars often lament the burning of the library of alexandri but what chin did was far worse, he never only destroyed the manuscripts but also the scholars and set about in a cultural purge much like mao's cultural revolution to unify china based around a set of principles.

Nevertheless it was a historical hinge upon which much of world history is based but we truly do not really know the history of china or the seven kingdom's with any clarity before his reign though there are legend's of a former empire and it is possible chin was not the first emperor of all china but simply reunified the seven state's.

Though we talk of agriculture and farming in mesopotamia where it may have become the defacto way of life and then supplanted the hunter gatherer societys and even there ethnic groups as well as there culture it is in south america before the conquistedore arrived that agriculture may have reached it's greatest peak with some estimates claiming they produced more food then than they do now.

It is also interesting how it appears to have arisen independantly though they themselves did have legends of viracocha and quetlecoatle whom may have been missionarys or a missionary that tought them to grow crop's but then may simply have been a mythical figure also.

Step terrace farming and advanced irrigation in the andes was so similar to techniques which arose in asia as people found identical solutions to the same problem of growing crops when the valley floor only provided limited space, they even irrigated the desert with irrigation cannals that carried water hundreds of miles form the mountains allowing civilization to flourish in otherwize arid land.

Then of course there was the extensive and still even today impressive mesopotamian canal system that ships could once sail upon some of it's largest cannals and had aquaducts not bettered until the advent of those constructed by rome much later but using triangular arch supports and built of huge interlocking stone blocks.

oi.uchicago.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...(1258)

You also know the story of how the mongols destroyed the ancient irrigation cannal's of mesopotamia and how after there invasion vast swathes of the iraqi heartland turned from green farmland to desert which even today has never been recovered and how the ensuing famine and depopulation must have effected the middle east.

I actually think we are meant to be farmer, even those of us whom do not like getting our hand's dirty as there is something deeply satisfying about planting and tending crops in the old way and if it is not over the top work it make's you feel better for some reason in a very theropeutic manner.

And let's be fair whom amongst us even not does not get a kich out of playing with water, it is as though it is somehow ingrained in us.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Logarock


I actually think we are meant to be farmer, even those of us whom do not like getting our hand's dirty as there is something deeply satisfying about planting and tending crops in the old way and if it is not over the top work it make's you feel better for some reason in a very theropeutic manner.



Yes. It could be that many of the anxiety disorders in western cultures have to do with a subconscious insecurity having to do with being removed from producing our own survival, working closely with it. Animals, our relationship with them for clothing, wool, leather, food, And crops, fire, no real impact of the changing seasons in relation to production ect ect you name it.

Now I like metal, really do, but the whole process seems grim. From out of the ground, deep mines to those giant steal mills, hot lava like fluid being poured out from vats, belching smoke. And the truth is 99% of all metal production for centuries was orientated towards making weapons.

Anyway what ever the thing, it is produced way over there somewhere for most people.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

One note: in ancient and classical times a certain percentage of metal went to art work, utility items ( bowls, spoons! eating knives, and such), roofing (Pantheon), fish hooks, agricultural tools, certainly more than 1%.






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