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The Myth of Eternal Damnation

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posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Agree2Disagree


You reap what you sow. That much is certain.


Hardly. Terrible things happen to wonderful people all the time. And wonderful things happen to terrible people.




posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: ColeYounger
I think a lot of folks who wrestle around with these heavy theological concepts just need to take a walk in the woods.
That's all it takes.
Spend a couple hours with nature and God will gently tap you on the noggin, if not gently slap you in the face!


In which case, "God" is just a glorified umbrella term for warm and fuzzy feelings.


When I go out walking in the wilderness, I feel a connection to something that seems eternal, or cosmic. God, I sound like a hippy.
Something A LOT more than just a warm fuzzy feeling.


But that's still just chemicals in your brain. It might mean more to you, but is it more?


Yes...It's a lot more! You won't see it, though.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Not saying they don't....

But you can't deny if you help someone in need, if they are good people, they will return the favor...

A2D



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Please don't confuse "The Church" with Bible believing Christianity. If it is metaphorical as you claim, then perhaps you could tell us what it is referring to?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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Maybe we're in hell right now? We see how the world is, there is tons of suffering, lies, pollution, wars, etc. Maybe the situation we're in now is what all these spiritual teachers were warning us about. We didn't listen and/or understand them which is why there is "gnashing of teeth" in today's world.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

The Bible interprets itself, by comparing scripture with scripture, but because the vast majority of people fail miserably to understand the Bible in context they have no clue on what the original meaning and interpretation of passages like this are. It is true that a lot of Revelation is indeed allegorical, for instance Revelation 12, but proper discernment on the readers part can help one determine what is metaphor or allegory, and what is to be taken literal. In this "post-modern" world we live in, we often see people saying "well, what this verse means to me is..." but that is irrelevant. Every verse in the Bible was written by a specific author, intended for a specific audience, and in a specific context. What someone thinks something means is irrelevant. Having said that, Revelation was specifically written for those who are justified by their faith in Jesus Christ, and if someone is NOT saved, then naturally Revelation, along with the rest of the Bible, will sound like foolishness to them. The wisdom of God is foolishness to the lost, and the foolishness of God is wiser than man's greatest wisdom.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: OptimusSubprime

In particular, a very large portion of Revelation was written to the people of seven distinct "churches"....

Ephesus
Smyrna
Pergamon
Thyatira
Sardis
Philadelphia
and Laodicea



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: Skyfloating

There is no objective hell. Belief in such an idea is naive.

There is no such thing as "non-existence". The idea is ridiculous and fundamentally contradicts itself.

There is no literal psychopathic christian god that so many think there is. God is an idea that encompasses the things that people cannot understand; it is the mental symbol ascribed to the unknown. It is an icon, though an intangible one.

There is no "word of god". Ideas cannot speak. Nor write.

What there is, here in this realm, is symbolic expression of higher ideals, thoughts, emotions, etc. The entire Abrahamic religious scene is an acted out symbolic expression of fear of the unknown that many have decided to delve deeply into, and to become enthralled in the experience. That is neither right nor wrong, good nor bad. But if you perhaps tire of the game, its necessary to see it for what it is; a game.

Games are fun, but theres only so long you can play a game before your suspension of disbelief begins to waver. When it does, and you start questioning: "Is this actually real?", and let yourself naturally wake up to truth by not needing that truth to be exactly what you think you want it to be, youll realize that no, its not real. Its a game. And youll realize that you are so much more than the character you play, and the god your character may or may not have worshiped is just a mental personification of certain concepts and ideas, and doesnt actually exist in a tangible way. If it did, it would be tangible, and there would be no question to its existence... would there?

You are the absolute sovereign of your own being, OP. No one can judge you, no one can compel you, and no one can damn you, nor save you. Only you can do those things to yourself.


Btw..as far as I know, the Bible does not teach eternal conscious suffering, but rather "eternal annihilation", which would simply be death


There is no "eternal annihilation". Wanna know why?

Because you already do not exist.

You have to have the attribute of existing already ascribed to your being for it to be taken away. In other words, existence must be an extrinsic attribute of your being for it be changeable.

But you are not in the process of "existing"... that idea is an inversion. Existence is not an extrinsic attribute, it is an intrinsic and immutable quality.

Simply put, you do not exist, because you are existence itself. Existence doesnt exist, existence just is. As you are.

In a dualistic framework, without you OP, there is nothing; you are the opposing pole to nothingness in eternal balance.

In a unified framework, you are the zero point, the default, the baseline. There is no existence vs nothingness, because those are just labels trying to bisect what inherently is indivisible.

-

Ironically, when we really get right down to it, we are the unknown... we are the great mystery. It is we who we fear as an external projection, because weve forgotten who we are.

We are existence, eternal and infinite.

We have always been, and always will be.

There is "nothing" to fear.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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As one who has heard the cries, shrieks, agonies and pleadings of the eternally damned I have no doubts when it comes to ensuring you all that eternal damnation is not a myth. It certainly isn't something to take a chance on.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: CaticusMaximus

If we have always been and always will be....THERE'S A LOT TO FEAR, esp if you take a close look at human history...

A2D



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: Skyfloating

The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't.

- Principia Discordia

i saw this nice quote months ago. i like it.
i'm against hell stories.
imho, telling everyone (esp children) that hell exists without any experience in hell can be considered 'a sin'.
life would be better if 'the authority' spread the teaching of compassion rather than scaring the non believers with such stories.

peace
edit on 5-6-2014 by dodol because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:36 PM
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originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

In particular, a very large portion of Revelation was written to the people of seven distinct "churches"....

Ephesus
Smyrna
Pergamon
Thyatira
Sardis
Philadelphia
and Laodicea



Absolutely right. Now the Dispensationalists will tell you that these were not real churches, and that they are representative of different "Church ages", and that we are currently living in the Laodicean age. That is a great example of someone getting the interpretation, as well as the context wrong. Dispensationalism has a lot wrong, for example, the Jews ARE NOT God's chosen people today in 2014, as they will tell you. Anyway, clearly these were real churches... I mean, the book of Ephesians was written to the church at Ephesus, and in 1 Thessalonians, Paul says for the church at Thessalonica to share it's epistle with the church at Laodicea, and for Laodicea to share their letter with Thesalonica. Having said that, there is certainly lessons to be learned, and that can be applied for churches today, from the description of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Also, Revelation 1:1 tells who the book is for, right out of the gate...


The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.


The book of Revelation was written for the benefit of those who are justified by faith in the LORD Jesus Christ. the words "his servants" make that clear. The key to understanding the entire book of Revelation lies in one verse... Revelation 1:7


“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.


Understand that verse, and you will have no problem understanding the entire book. In fact, the book of Revelation is very easy to understand once you get some preconceived beliefs out of your head, and those are: 1) That the Jews are God's chosen people, and the nation of Israel as it exists today (since 1948) is God's chosen holy nation, and 2) the pre-tribulation rapture. Once you can get past those false beliefs then Revelation will make perfect sense. It's meant to be a Revelation to the justified people of God... the saved. It isn't meant to be esoteric and confusing, and it isn't when understood in it's proper context.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity the reason terrible things happen to good people and good to bad people is because of karma. We all create karma during any decision we make in life. A good way to look at it is action and reaction; there is always a reaction to an action; a consequence (positive or negative) to a decision. Also, depending on the intensity of the action/decision, the reaction/consequence can traverse lifetimes.


edit on 5-6-2014 by Voyaging because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
Back in the 1990s I worked at a Catholic monastery for almost a decade. Volunteering and helping with the Third Order. An old nun explained Hell to me and it made sense. She said that the people in Hell WANT to be there. They hate God so much, and they hate hate hate so much, that they want to be away from the light and the good and God. So even if the metaphorical 'gates of Hell' were thrown wide open and the people were invited out, they'd just stay where they were and complain that you need to shut the door and leave them alone. The people in Hell put themselves there and want to stay there because it's as far away from God as they can get .... They want no part of Heaven.

Anyways .. made sense to me.


It must be a freezing cold day in Hell today, because I actually agree with you here.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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I found a good YouTube video but will need to find it again to link if anyone is interested. It was a documentary on a large near death study of 600 people. Every single person who has ever reported one of these experiences tells us it is a conscious experience. I'm including those from all the studies I have read, in addition to what this documentary shared. If it was not a conscious experience they would not be so lucid and would not recall such detail. It is definitely consciousness surviving...somehow.

I think it's interesting to wonder if it is eternity though. If thinking in simple terms it makes me wonder who goes to this conscious misery. Certainly Uday Hussein and his father would go to such a place. Hitler, etc.. But do people who simply don't believe yet are good go there? I think this place is real, based on scientific investigations (phenomenological research) but perhaps we are so freaked out about this ancient knowledge, passed down over time, that we have deviated from the simplistic nature of it. If consciousness survives is it reborn in another form? Or does it simply drift about forever? I guess we will find out one day.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 11:43 PM
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A few of my own musings on the subject of eternal torment.

I think that time is only a phenomenon that exist within creation or our universe. When something is eternal it is timeless and without beginning or end. The idea is pretty abstract. You guys who challenge the concept are thinking of a linear time frame. God is eternal he exist outside of space/time.

If eternal torment exist as an option for the afterlife (although I side more with stormbringer1701 here) then it would not be referenced in time it would just be.

This is how I kind of understood how people are said to be sleeping in the grave awaiting Christ return for the resurrection (there is your reincarnation
) and others believe you go to heaven instantly . It is kind of relative time is passing here but happens instantly and at all times in the spiritual realms. By this I mean I die but time here is passing and I am just dead in the grave yet I am in the afterlife where time does not exist being judged or what have you.

This view helps me reconcile things like omniscience. All of creation existing simultaneously in front of God like pages of a book. He can flip through interact and pluck things out of the book at any point in time simultaneously.

Just some of the stuff I think about when I cant sleep. Enjoy.



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: SirKonstantin

I am glad you were able to expression this carefully.


I have to tread carefully...otherwise they`ll call me a heretc or...god forbid...a liberal for believing that 1000 years of punishment for Hitler is enough.




I can't believe you suggested 100 years of suffering in hell

First of all God/Goodness/Love would never sentence someone to hell, it has something to do with frequency and some kind of match, and Family/Love/God would wish to help, heal and council. God simply isn't like that. Love is not like that. Someone's conscience and frequency may determine this as a temporal experience

But it would never be for 100 years, as we would experience 100 years.

A day in that would be too long.

I would never endorse any form of prolonged suffering, just perfect knowledge and remedy, because that would be too much.

Family would be rescuing everyone from those places for Love never gives up on anyone and only wants the person to recover, and heal and understand, if they are capable, otherwise it would all be mitigated.

It's about understanding the other, having compassion for them and helping them to realize their worth and that they need healing and love and there are far more positive ways to make up for something or relearn, than to sit in a pit or be tortured by negatives perpetually.


edit on 6-6-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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I definitely believe that there either exists a place or places, or an actual state of existence, where one could end up after death, and this place or state of existence is not pleasant. For those who have experienced paranormal events, especially those of an exceedingly evil nature, I think this much is obvious. I know not everyone has had the same experiences, and not everyone believes that there even exists a paranormal realm, but this does not alter the fact that it exists.

And because it exists then at least one type of life after death exists in my opinion. And given the extremely positive nature of some paranormal encounters, I am lead to believe that at the very least there are ways to end up after death that are much better than other ways. Granted however that this may have to do with the nature of the person in life, but I also believe there are paranormal entities who were not physical people who lived a life on earth. I am just extrapolating these ideas from personal experiences as well as the experiences of people I trust. So at the absolute least I think all of the above exist, but there is likely much, much more.



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan



You have no choice. It's like you are an ant and God is the universe. This is HIS game. We are just the pieces. It is impossible to overthrow God. He created it all. He runs it. He is bigger than all of us put together.


I agree with most of what you said earlier about your conception of what hell could be like.

However, I don't like it when people put God over all creations. It builds an illusional fatality that God is to be completely superior and disconnected from his own creation, which sounds way too much like a religious biased claim.
In fact, I think the truth lies somewhere else: we are God. We decided to lose momentarily our eternal state to experience the world of matter created by God or put simply, the ultimate source of all energy. In this instance, it means we come from the source therefore god can't be 'bigger' or 'over' us. It's a misconception of the mind or at least it's the way I see it.

As for the main topic of this thread, I think eternal damnation is a fear-based manipulation of some sort. People are extremely easy to control when they are overcome by fear, especially with the fear of their own death. I believe the concept of Hell exists somewhere in this vast universe but only in a way to balance a negative Karma rather than a punishment of some sort. Everything has to be balance before going back to the source.



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 01:39 AM
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To burn forever and ever is an idiom that means that once something is burnt to ash it will never be that thing again. Those who will be punished that way will cease to exist and will be blotted out of the Book of Life. You will not even be remembered, it will be like you never existed at all.



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