The Myth of Eternal Damnation

Let's look at it from a different viewpoint: God's, instead of ours.

Heaven is God's dwelling place. Do you invite people into your home who disrespect you, even hate you, refuse to abide by the rules (like trashing your place and being cruel to other guests). If a stranger knocked on your door right now, would you let him in just because he thinks you should?

The reward of heaven is not 24/7 hot fudge sundaes or whatever else you enjoy. The reward is eternity with God. God is such an overwhelming source of love and peace that nothing we know could describe him adequately. When we have God, we will have completion and perfect contentment.

Hell, on the other hand, is the complete absence of God. And part of hell is knowing how incredible God is and that we can never have him. But this is by our choice, not his.

There is NO indication in the Bible that we get to choose God after death. We make our choice BEFORE we die. Those are God's rules, and since he's in charge and we're not, he gets to make the rules.

You can complain about unfairness or lack of love or whatever you want, but that's just you trying to make the rules instead of God. Sorry, but just like your own house, he gets to make the rules for his house.

In John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life," not A way, A truth or A life. The second half of the verse says, "No one comes to the Father except through me." THAT's the key to whether Muslims, Buddhists, or any others get in. Jesus is the gatekeeper of heaven, not Peter. So if you never had a chance to hear about Christ, that's the key.

But if you hear, know, and reject Christ, well, there are no guarantees he's going to let you into his house.

a reply to: ConvincedMan

You're thinking like an authorative human

I liked what Lou/Sleeper had to say instead. God doesnt need our worship. Think of the Most pure and gentle and perfect compassionate, sensitive and understanding parents with their infant/toddler,kissing his little feet, and adoring the ground he walks on, and you'd see parents worship their kids, not kids parents, well kids tend to be very attached to their parents too.

Its not about that human understanding, Love outreaches to us and never gives up on anyone.

That's the very trap they're pulling on people. We come in from higher loving levels and if you picture many mansions or frequency realms of heaven from sink like stone heavy ones, often controlled by top pyramid type entities and demiurges, to the Higher Levels of Eutopias and Love, Equality and Progression of the Everyone, the pyramid inverted to the empowerment of the many.

So we come in for tests from higher levels and after a number of years they've convinced you to shift allegiance and put love in a restricted judgemental smiting lower zone box and sell a lower pyramidal demiurge as God and thats the trap.

You see we come in knowing what love is, small children have better understanding in some ways, than adults, who get it all bent out of shape.

a reply to: Skyfloating

TextThe idea of "Eternal Damnation" as taught by some religious fundamentalists seems highly questionable to me. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I agree with you Skyfloating.

Revelation 20:10-15
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

My understanding of death is that there is one death of this soul and another of its spirit. Just as there is life of this body and life of its spirit. Notice in Revelation 14 it states that "This is the second death" referencing the death of the spirit. When the soul dies it ceases to function and there is no life in that body. I understand that when the spirit dies it also ceases to function and there is no life in that spirit.

In my understanding the meaning of second death is complete annihilation of ones existence. I do not believe that anyone will consciously be tormented forever. That is not the nature or purpose of creation by the Creator. Just as the body, in death, returns to its source (substance) so the spirit, in death, will return to its source (substance). What the purpose of the lake of fire shows is the reminder of what sin produced. Isaiah 66:24 shows me this in my understanding. I understand that the worm in Isaiah is the image to remind people what the results of sin are.

I could be mistaken in belief but this is what I was taught.

a reply to: Unity_99

Yeah, I am talking like an authoritative human. After a lifetime of Christianity and studying the Bible, I DO know more about the Bible than the average nonbeliever.

Its not about that human understanding, Love outreaches to us and never gives up on anyone.

Speaking nonauthoritatively, my BELIEF is that love (God) gives up on those who rejected him, once they die. Jesus did not give any hints that after we die we can say, "Oh, I think I'd like a second chance."

That's exactly what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was about. See Luke 16:19-31

First all things are possible With GOD. Just because we find something inconvienent or unfathomable does not make it false. In an electromagnetic universe it is very possible to create a place that could complete what you call a myth. To know that we are all energy and a place could be made where not only that energy is trapped but also harnessed for some benefit is a far more plausable answer other than labeling something myth or impossible because it does not make sense to you or you just do not want to accept it.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
First all things are possible With GOD. Just because we find something inconvienent or unfathomable does not make it false. In an electromagnetic universe it is very possible to create a place that could complete what you call a myth. To know that we are all energy and a place could be made where not only that energy is trapped but also harnessed for some benefit is a far more plausable answer other than labeling something myth or impossible because it does not make sense to you or you just do not want to accept it.

Nowhere do I imply that its impossible. Its more of a criticism of policy than a questioning of whether its possible. If the policy is in effect (which is doubtful, according to many bright theological minds), then its not surprising there would be some souls who question it and say "hey, can we reduce the punishment to 200 Trillion years? Its becoming quite pointless".

If they're going to have an eternal damnation policy in effect, we`re going to question it.

a reply to: ConvincedMan

Speaking nonauthoritatively, my BELIEF is that love (God) gives up on those who rejected him, once they die. Jesus did not give any hints that after we die we can say, "Oh, I think I'd like a second chance."

That's exactly what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was about. See Luke 16:19-31

I think that the Rich Man and Lazarus parable is the complaint against Abraham for giving them a bad god.
Abraham tells the dead rich man that "they have Moses and the Prophets".
He said, ‘No, father Abraham,’.
People usually focus on what he says next, about someone coming back from the dead, and ignore this part, which is the condemnation of what Abraham handed down to his descendants.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Hey, AfterInfinity -
may I ask....
what do your parents think about God? Are they worried they are doomed to hell? (I don't think any of you are, for what it's worth).

No. One believes, I don't know what the other thinks. Neither is worried about it, and one of them was raised Catholic. And like I said, they're gay.

"Agree with me, otherwise eternal torment" - if thats what Christ taught (which he didnt) it would be easy to reject him.

If a thug came up to you in the street and said "either you agree with me, or I am going to lock you up for life" you`d see it for what it is: Evil.

I have no problem whatsoever with punishment. Its the ETERNAL torment that seems suspicious to me. Keeping someone who is fairly ignorant (and humans are fairly ignorant) in pain for that long is something some of you seem to not only condone but even endorse.

originally posted by: ConvincedMan

Heaven is God's dwelling place. Do you invite people into your home who disrespect you,

.

I`m not that insecure that I would not allow anyone who has a different view than me into my home.

a reply to: Murgatroid


Murgatroid - your post on page 10 with the quotes from people who went on a little Sunday drive with Jesus into "hell"... I'm just wondering which one is correct? Briefly summarizing the people you quoted:

Howard Pittman was told that 2 1/2% of people make it to heaven.
Park Yong Gyu was told that only 0.1% of people make it to heaven.
Wilfred Lai was told that 1% of people would make it to heaven.

So does your god have some sick twisted fun by lying to people? Because in the quotes you provided, obviously at least 2 of these NDE-ers have been lied to. Maybe that's just part of the fun to be had by a being that would punish the kindest person who ever lived to an eternity of fire just because this helper of humanity didn't worship him.

Not to mention that you are fully trusting in a New Testament who's earliest surviving copies date to 200 years after Christ and even then no two manuscripts fully agree with each other (other than very small fragmented pieces).

When you get rid of the religion created by intentional mistranslations and selective inclusion to the Bible by men seeking power and control - you will be left with the Creator who is above this petty human anger and need for revenge and punishment. He loves and welcomes us all!

a reply to: Skyfloating

I can't save you, you already know what Jesus teaches it is your choice to except it our not. I don't feel bad for the person who fails a class in school or gets fired at work your decisions direct your fate not mine.

Besides the only people we truly should be mad at would be Adam and Eve there the ones who screwed up and brought us into this situation.

originally posted by: ConvincedMan
Let's look at it from a different viewpoint: God's, instead of ours.

That is impossible. We are tiny little ignorant mortals at this moment in time. We couldn't possibly fathom God's viewpoint - that's why we attribute human qualities to Him. It is humanity's desire to have this eternal torment so we can feel superior in our morality and we can feel justified in our judgementalism toward others.

If Heaven is only for people who meet the conditions that they claim God and Christ set for us - it will remain eternally empty. Other than Jesus Himself, no one ever has nor ever will meet the standard.

a reply to: Skyfloating

really so if a colony of ants decided to enter into your home you would welcome them there with open arms and allow them to live with you in peace, or would you do like most do and commit genocide and destroy all of them. Gods evil because he sends humans to hell for going against his laws, but humans are alright even though we kill millions of little creatures every day to make us comfortable.

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: ConvincedMan



Heaven is God's dwelling place. Do you invite people into your home who disrespect you,



.

I`m not that insecure that I would not allow anyone who has a different view than me into my home.

Exactly the point Sky! You, as an imperfect human would not be so petty as to not allow someone with a different belief than you into their home.
Why do so many people believe that God, our loving Father, would be so much more petty than an imperfect human?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Hey, AfterInfinity -
may I ask....
what do your parents think about God? Are they worried they are doomed to hell? (I don't think any of you are, for what it's worth).

No. One believes, I don't know what the other thinks. Neither is worried about it, and one of them was raised Catholic. And like I said, they're gay.

And all of you will be with Him one day! God is not this bigoted, petty, racist, judgemental, homophobic genocidal maniac that people who need to feel superior say He is. He loves us all and will accept us all!

a reply to: Murgatroid
You use no biblical facts to back your statement, and claim that the only piece of truth we have for Christianity is a lie made by deceivers. you try to tell believers they have no chance to make it to heaven because the will never be able to prove themselves to there savior. You speak only the words of Satan was Christ a liar when he told the thief on the cross Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” this man had no time to commit any acts of good to prove to God that he was worthy to go to heaven. He was an evil thief how do we know he wasn't just saying this to save his butt. you said earlier that just because you claimed to have asked for Jesus to save you doesn't mean it counts. what a horrible thing to say and what a deceptive thing that Satan would say, what a great way to shake someones faith and to try and turn them away from God if only 2 1/2, 0.1, or 1% ( thanks for pointing that out tallcool1) of humans make it to heaven then whats the point, we all screw up and sin constantly it is apart of us but Christs blood has washed over us to absolve us from all of our sins forever. you are the liar, the false prophet the deceiver that your own posts speak of.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (Phi) "God's messengers?" They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners masquerading as the messengers of Christ. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness--but they will get what they deserve in the end.

1 Tim 4:1-2 (Phi) God's spirit specificaly tells us that in later days there will be men who abandon the true faith and allow themselves to be spiritually seduced by teachings of demons, teachings given by men who are lying hypocrites, whose consciences are as dead as seared flesh.

Mathew 24
9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

originally posted by: bigcountry08


Besides the only people we truly should be mad at would be Adam and Eve there the ones who screwed up and brought us into this situation.

I won't blame God, nor Adam and Eve or Jesus for the eternal damnation, torture, abuse, hatred, humiliation, violence and insanity waged against trillions of souls who rot in hell.

Jesus says that what happens with sinners is that they perish, die, are destroyed...not kept in eternal damnation.

a reply to: tallcool1

He doesn't believe that the bible is true just like you, your both deceivers. what version of the bible do you believe in? one that manipulates it to the point where everyone goes to heaven even though Christ himself proclaimed that some would not make it to heaven. Nice avatar, thanks for warning us who you really are.