Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by sleeper
Unlike all the other countries in the world we do have some bad people,
...

Now that's a Freudian slip if I ever saw one.

I assumed that most people would know sarcasm without me having to explain it.

The rest of the world is perfect---only America has some bad people? Get real.

Originally posted by sleeper
I assumed that most people would know sarcasm without me having to explain it.

Now, now. Don't get your panties in a bunch, I'm just messin' with ya.

Originally posted by alien
I think its great for people to have a love for the country they reside in. As for America being more beautiful and more safe etc...well, this New Zealander would take issue with that...I can experience the beauty of a bustling metropolis, take a half hour drive to dense native bush to do some hunting or camping, or relax on pristine beaches...or another short drive to ski on some of the most picturesque slopes in the world. Gun-related crimes are still not that common, drive-bys are such a rarity they're maybe one of two a year across the whole country and I doubt we have ever once experienced a school-yard shooting or similar. We have suffered one act of terrorism, some 10 years ago, and that was perpetrated by our supposed 'allies' *cheers France*...

...but again, good to see love for ones home...

[edit on 30-11-2004 by alien]

Alien, I can do all those things...only I have to use a plane to do go and do some of them.
I think the point that was that the U.S. is painted as an evil place by not only the pampered and spoiled communist elites in the media and entertainment but also by other governments as well, and that is just not the case.

The country is a big one with a diverse nation; not all of us live in huge cities with people who avoid eye contact and walk swiftly. Where I live, we greet each other, stop to assist fellow motorists in need and haven't experienced a school shooting even though most of the cars in the school parking lot will have hunting rifles in the trunks this time of the year.

My little section of this place is resistant to gullibility but open to change. While the northern states were fighting the bussing situation, we blacks and whites were doing homework together and playing together after school, so were aren't likely to buy into the Jesse Jackson hate speeches. We grew up with rifles and pistols and our kids do the same, so we aren't liable to fall into the "guns are bad, only the government should have them" garbage. We have a tendancy to work for a living and be self-sufficient, finding it a bad thing to rely on the government for anything, so we aren't likely to buy into the nonsense that the government can take care of all our needs if we just let them tax us enough. We have TV sets down here now, we got them last year along with the first shipment of shoes. We see our inefficient governments are.

Point is, the same ones who paint us as a bad nation are the ones who have tried to screw up our society so that we would be that bad nation. The old technique of creating a problem so you can sell your solution, only this time, the solution will put an end to us.

Don't take the poster's thoughts as boasting, take them as an bit of info, that the U.S. is not the oafish, backwoods war-mongering country some people abroad have been led to believe. Our government is not the only one to lie, as many here seem to belive, and the hijacked media and entertainment business can't be trusted, either as they have the same agenda to push.

By the way, Alien, most of us here feel good about our country and oursleves and at the same time hold other countries in high esteem. New Zealand is one of those countries. You are very fortunate to live there, I'd say!

Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by sleeper
I assumed that most people would know sarcasm without me having to explain it.

Now, now. Don't get your panties in a bunch, I'm just messin' with ya.

OK my panties are now un-bunched, but you have to admit that there are people in the world---mostly in Canada, France and Hollywood, that believe that or wish to make the world believe that.

Originally posted by sleeper
OK my panties are now un-bunched, but you have to admit that there are people in the world---mostly in Canada, France and Hollywood, that believe that or wish to make the world believe that.

Sure. As there are people in the US who'd like to believe the rest of the world are jealous of, and hate the US as well as its citizens. But these are nothing but gross generalizations which absolutely doesn't represent the views of the vast majority. And all that this accomplishes is creating animosity between the US and the rest of the world.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden
Sure. As there are people in the US who'd like to believe the rest of the world are jealous of, and hate the US as well as its citizens. But these are nothing but gross generalizations which absolutely doesn't represent the views of the vast majority. And all that this accomplishes is creating animosity between the US and the rest of the world.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by Durden]

Normally I am not a flag waver, however, in the last year America and all it represents has been relentlessly under attack by the American and European Left-wing machine---as if they are some kind of shining light on the world.

I don't belong to any religious belief system but I know gloom and doom when I see it---and I see it in Socialism, Communism, and generally anything spewed from the left.

I know what America is about---so the lies about America from the left are obvious----those who don't know the real America---those who have never seen it or been here---only have the lies and propaganda to go on.

To counteract the lies and propaganda that flows 24/7 the world needs to hear the other side---the truth.

If you choose to call that nationalism---so be it.

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by General Zapata
*waves the flag* oh say can you see.....

tell me, oh enlightened one, what is it about capitalism that you don't like? Because obviously sweatshops, worker exploitation and environmental destruction doesn't bother you. How about visiting some of those countries where the products bound for consumption in the US are made? Do you think the people there are just as happy?


You're go

[edit on 30-11-2004 by General Zapata]

Typical Soc/Commy propoganda. I don't know if those people are happy, but they have JOBS (exploitation as you call it) because of what we consume. Do you really think they'd be better off twiddling their thumbs in the street making nothing? These "sweatshops" are the only means of income they have, and the sad thing is humanitarians want to take it away. Some say the conditions are bad, I agree but not all are and those that have poor conditions need new magement and reform which they are getting. Some humanitarians want to see better pay, so where does this money come from that they force the owners to disperse? From the people they lay off. They probably aren't just as happy, but they see what the US has accomplished in the past 150 years and think that if they allow US businesses to come in and set up shop they can reap the benefit, which is true.

You're forgetting the reason why American companies move to the poorest areas of Latin America and Asia and sometimes in the mid-east.

It's because the corporations don't have to pay a livable wage... have half decent working conditions.. have the right to spew as much sewage and crap into the environment without restrictions... no medical benefits, no overtime pay, no sick leave.. nothing at all.

Many Americans could use the jobs being sent overseas, but the American worker would expect more than 2 cents an hour (if that!) and expect decent working conditions and governmental protection from the wraths of big business owners.

The corporations have little interest in improving the areas where they operate down in those countries.. because if the country did improve you would see the people expecting more from the workplace. And the big business owners would not accept this... they wish to maximize personal profit while minimizing what the worker earns from his/her hard work.

You ask "where the companies would get the money".. haha... if the CEO's can afford to buy $100,000 boats and buy several million dollar houses.. they have plenty of money to pay the employee a livable wage and provide even a toliet for the worker.

Notice how without government watching over big business.. how quickly it can take power and do as it pleases... and it is quite scary what big business is capable of.. if they have the nerve to profit off of those coming back in bodybags they would do more.

[edit on 2-12-2004 by RedOctober90]

There is a reason the Communist sickle represents the grim reaper (death).

Communism and Socialism has been the death of millions who have fallen for the big lie.

Go to any country who is under left-wing madness and you fined the worse kind of poverty imaginable. All Third World Counties are under a left-wing despot. In these countries people look for food in the landfills, they live in shacks made of discarded junk. Live in sewage filled villages, drink contaminated water, while their masters the bureaucrats live like kings.

The left-wing sickle and hammer represents oppression and misery for millions of people around the world. The hammer to beat the people into submission, and the sickle to kill those who resist (Stalin murdered more than twenty million of his own people who refused to live under his repressive Communism---that is the legacy of the left.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by sleeper]

[edit on 2-12-2004 by sleeper]

[edit on 2-12-2004 by sleeper]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If you are not already, you should join a firearms rights organization like the National Rifle Association so that over time you can get legislation or even Constitutional protection for your rights to keep and bear arms.

There's just not enough of a shooter:sheeple ratio here. All you need to do is tune in to conservative talk back radio stations, during times when a topic concerning guns comes up, and you'll hear a mass of ignorant know-it-all twits who make comments like "I don't know anything about guns, but I know I don't like them". These are the same people who vote for Papa Howard in the belief that he'll look after them. The irony of this Liberal government's domestic policies compared to it's foreign policies is too staggering to go into here, and will run this thread off topic.

The only chance we have is for Australia to become a Republic. John Howard opposes Australia becoming a republic, he is a monarchist. This is your Man-of-Steel. Once it is sure we will become a republic, we must take the opportunity to establish our rights constitutionally. I see the future leaders of this republic taking advantage of the gun laws here and not only opposing their ammendment but making them more strict. With a clean fresh slate, why would those power hungry people give more to the people? Hope I'm wrong.

Originally posted by sleeper
There is a reason the Communist sickle represents the grim reaper (death).

Communism and Socialism has been the death of millions who have fallen for the big lie.

Go to any country who is under left-wing madness and you fine the worse kind of poverty imaginable. All Third World Counties are under a left-wing despot. In these countries people look for food in the landfills, they live in shacks made of discarded junk. Live in sewage filled villages, drink contaminated water, while there masters the bureaucrats live like kings.

The left-wing sickle and hammer represents oppression and misery for millions of people around the world. The hammer to beat the people into submission, and the sickle to kill those who resist (Stalin murdered more than twenty million of his own people who refused to live under his repressive Communism---that is the legacy of the left.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by sleeper]

Absolute right-wing rubbish.

1.Your now saying that every third world country practices "Communism" First of all.. no country in this world has practiced communism. Please go back and read Karl Marx, you may be suprised he spoke out against how the bourgesis (wealthy elite) gain control of government and use it to make profit off of peoples lives (hence, Iraq)

2. Karl Marx never intended for a ruling class.. but under capitalism you have a ruling elite.

3. Karl Marx believed it is the worker who must rise up and be vocal about his desires.

4. The paranoid right label anyone who differs from right-wing idealogies as "communists"

5. It is the left wing.. not that right which truly believes in equality and choice. Many people of the right wing expect people to follow a certain religion, pertain to certain conservative beliefs, they pretend they are for freedom and choice yet cry when someone CHOOSES to have an abortion.

6. Everyone I've known with an open-minded towards the world was a liberal.. a leftist.... a conservative thinks certain ways should be set and thats final.. but a liberal asks "why must it be this way?"

It is the despot countries you speak of that your wonderful elite corporations like to go so they don't have to pay a livable wage (read my above posting)

And finally.. the hammer and sickle is symbolising the unity between agricultural and industrial workers. A bit dated for today but still is a powerful symbol of the idea that the worker is in command of society and not big business.

Originally posted by Frosty
I don't know if those people are happy, but they have JOBS (exploitation as you call it) because of what we consume.

No, they have a way of not starving because of what you consume, and they are only in that situation to begin with because of what and how much you consume,and the monstrous corporations running your country.

These "sweatshops" are the only means of income they have, and the sad thing is humanitarians want to take it away.

You have COMPLETELY missed the point. WHY is that the only way they can survive? Why don't they just revert back to some agrarian, simpler lifestyle where they can make or grow all they need to not starve? Its because of their governments, who crack the whip for their corporate overlords.

Some humanitarians want to see better pay, so where does this money come from that they force the owners to disperse? From the people they lay off.

No, layoffs only occur because those at the top want continued and ever-expanding profits. How often do giant corporations go out of business or are held accountable for their crimes? Hardly ever.

they see what the US has accomplished in the past 150 years and think that if they allow US businesses to come in and set up shop they can reap the benefit, which is true.

no, they think 'the corporations who have destituted us in the first place are now attempting to exploit us once more by giving us the money we need not to starve in exchange for obscenely cheap labour.'

Originally posted by sleeper
Normally I am not a flag waver, however, in the last year America and all it represents has been relentlessly under attack by the American and European Left-wing machine---

Right. US policies have been criticized from the inside of the US as well as from the outside.

I know what America is about---so the lies about America from the left are obvious----those who don't know the real America---those who have never seen it or been here---only have the lies and propaganda to go on.

'Those who have never seen it or been here'? A few sentences ago, you admitted that criticism very much comes from the inside of the US as well..

Also, what is loudly criticized these days are the foreigh policies of the current US Administrations (i.e. that which very much affects the lives of non-US citizens).

To counteract the lies and propaganda that flows 24/7 the world needs to hear the other side---the truth.

So essentially what you're saying is that criticism towards the policies of the US is nothing but left wing propaganda and lies as opposed to the 'truth' which you're privy of. That's quite a bold claim on your part. And we're supposed to simply take your word for it?

If you choose to call that nationalism---so be it.

No, I wouldn't call that nationalism. I'd call that delusion. But hey - if you love waving that flag around - good for you.

The left-wing sickle and hammer represents oppression and misery for millions of people around the world. The hammer to beat the people into submission, and the sickle (grim reaper) to kill those who resist (Stalin murdered more than twenty million of his own people who refused to live under his repressive Communism---that is the legacy of the left.

Today and every day hundreds of battles are raging against democracy in many parts of the world (mostly in Africa)---people are being killed by the thousands by left-wing despots, yet no one seems to care---the focus is on Iraq---only because America is there fighting back.

There are millions of people who live the life of freedom and prosperity under Capitalism.

There are millions of people who live in daily terror, poverty, sickness and oppression under Communist and Left-wing regimes.

Choose wisely which system you wish to live under

Originally posted by sleeper
The left-wing sickle and hammer represents oppression and misery for millions of people around the world. The hammer to beat the people into submission, and the sickle (grim reaper) to kill those who resist...

Yeah, you've shown that you love rambling this right wing propaganda. Anything of actual value you'd like to add, or is this all that you're capable of?

...
yet no one seems to care---the focus is on Iraq---only because America is there fighting back.

The US is there fighting back? Yeah, you are delusional. Hmm... who was the actual agressor in this case?

America has made it possible for millions of poor people who came here to become prosperous.

Before America freedom for the masses was unheard of.

America has liberated millions from the treachery of Left-wing domination and tyranny all over the world.

America is the immune system that is under constant attack by left-wing viruses that attempt to pollute the minds of Americans and foreigners with lies about how well Capitalism works.

Left-wing ideology is the cause of much if not all the poverty and misery in the world.

Choose wisely which system you wish to live under!

Originally posted by sleeper
America has made it possible for millions of poor people who came here to become prosperous.

Before America freedom for the masses was unheard of.

America has liberated millions from the treachery of Left-wing domination and tyranny all over the world...

This is like trying to have a discussion with a poorly written computer application.

Remember what I said in my previous post?

Originally posted by Durden
Yeah, you've shown that you love rambling this right wing propaganda. Anything of actual value you'd like to add, or is this all that you're capable of?

Guess that's really all you're capable of...

Originally posted by sleeper


I don't belong to any religious belief system but I know gloom and doom when I see it---and I see it in Socialism, Communism, and generally anything spewed from the left.

so its fine for facism and the like?
oh BTW see that whole rights thing? thats on the left side too its on democracy which is on the left side.

Originally posted by General Zapata
No, they have a way of not starving because of what you consume, and they are only in that situation to begin with because of what and how much you consume,and the monstrous corporations running your country.

What? That makes no sense. So you are saying third world nations starve because we can feed our selves and the people who run our country. So, it is the US's fault because we are so prosperous. Could you care to explain?

You have COMPLETELY missed the point. WHY is that the only way they can survive? Why don't they just revert back to some agrarian, simpler lifestyle where they can make or grow all they need to not starve? Its because of their governments, who crack the whip for their corporate overlords.

Why? Because their 'leftist" government can't do anything for them. Agrarian, that wouldn't produce too many jobs nor would it get them out of their economic hardship, though it might feed them. The US and all developed nations have made transitional phases from an agrian society to a now industrial society. For the most part, it is their "leftist" government.

No, layoffs only occur because those at the top want continued and ever-expanding profits. How often do giant corporations go out of business or are held accountable for their crimes? Hardly ever.

Myabe you don't believe that the people who own the company can do what the will with the money they make? You don't believe in economic freedom do you? Of coarse not, socialism allows for no economic freedom, which is why these nations continue their sad and sorry state. When Mommar Quadafi gained control of Libya, he didn't like the fact that so many CEO's and business owners were paid so much, so he enacted wage laws which sky rocketed his country into further misery. People don't work the same when they can't reap the benefits of what they sow.

no, they think 'the corporations who have destituted us in the first place are now attempting to exploit us once more by giving us the money we need not to starve in exchange for obscenely cheap labour.'

The GDP of these nations is significantly lower than the US, so what they get paid is according to their GDP, not ours. Answer this, where were these people working before US companies came in the picture? The rhetoric you are spewing is not too far from the Zionist-Western-Capitalist plots to overthrow the first peasant worker state that Lenin and Stalin saw as immenent. Of coarse these conspiracies were pure rubbish.

Originally posted by sleeper
The left-wing sickle and hammer represents oppression and misery for millions of people around the world. The hammer to beat the people into submission, and the sickle (grim reaper) to kill those who resist (Stalin murdered more than twenty million of his own people who refused to live under his repressive Communism---that is the legacy of the left.

yeah sure , you know that actually that the whole hammer and sickle thing means workers and farmers but hey if you are going to use this whole right wing holywood idea stuff i can play ball too. want me to continue?

Today and every day hundreds of battles are raging against democracy in many parts of the world (mostly in Africa)---people are being killed by the thousands by left-wing despots, yet no one seems to care---the focus is on Iraq---only because America is there fighting back.

actually not they are using RIGHT wing countries cause the government controls them thats on the right no the left. take germany in 1920-33 that was REALLY left.
actually we have been careing BUT since things in africa have no bearing in american news networks no one knows about it. see the comercial mind at work?

There are millions of people who live the life of freedom and prosperity under Capitalism.

yeah sure they do where the rich rule the poor huh?
funny how this didnt work for us in the ye olden days.

There are millions of people who live in daily terror, poverty, sickness and oppression under Communist and Left-wing regimes.

firstly get your statement uncontradictory before you slag the left.
second go and look up "left wing politics" in an encyclopedia.
thirdly cuba is left yet they have a great health system. now tell me the US has a great health system.

Choose wisely which system you wish to live under

lets see freedom (left) or government/police controlled state (right)?

Originally posted by Durden This is like trying to have a discussion with a poorly written computer application.

Remember what I said in my previous post?

Originally posted by Durden
Yeah, you've shown that you love rambling this right wing propaganda. Anything of actual value you'd like to add, or is this all that you're capable of?

Guess that's really all you're capable of...

America is like the world's immune system that is under constant attack by left-wing viruses that attempt to pollute the minds of Americans and foreigners.

America and virtue are synonymous.

Choose wisely which system you wish to live under!