Bashar al-Assad re-elected Syrian president

a reply to: Xcathdra

The point is if the West didn't meddle with Syrian issues in the first place, we wouldn't have both sides and the likelihood of this ridiculous Western orchestrated war would not of got out of control like it has today. Europe and the USA should be held accountable for every death that occurs in Syria and I don't care what anyone thinks. If the West didn't interfere, Assad wouldn't have to defend the Syrian homeland and therefore kill innocent people in doing that.

a reply to: DarknStormy

I must have missed the part where the US caused the issues in Syria.

Care to link me to your sources to support that claim?

a reply to: Xcathdra

So arming and funding the FSA is not contributing to the Syrian problem? I didn't say the USA started the war, I'm saying that they have caused more issues through backing the opposition which has allowed this war to continue.

If the USA and Europe and I guess the disgusting Saudi's stayed out of the internal affairs of Syria, do you think we would be witnessing the atrocities in Syria today?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: DarknStormy

I must have missed the part where the US caused the issues in Syria.

Care to link me to your sources to support that claim?

So US have not made plans on taking out Syria?



1 CIA pushes a protest movement that can be shown off in media as seeking Democracy.
2 Saudi Arabia sends in the Wahhabi terrorist mercenary cells.
3 US attack with their military to bring down the Dictatorship.
4 Change in country for a more Petrodollar friendly regime controlled by the IMF who loans out money to rebuild the damage in the country. This is where the real money is made by the bankers.

Rinse and repeat in another country.

Only in Ukraine they did not send in the Wahhabi. The used national Nazis instead who paid with the national gold reserve airlifted to FED.

But this time the bear got angry and took Crimea. Still waiting for the retaliation on Saudi Arabia for the Wahhabi (KSA) terror attack in Russia.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: DarknStormy

I must have missed the part where the US caused the issues in Syria.

Care to link me to your sources to support that claim?

On going support to take Assad down is relevant to answering that question. I posted this previous page…Especially love the TOW launchers (who makes those). The fighters that are trained in Turkey and Qatar (by Americans) are interviewed…

UN vetoed three times denying the same "Humanitarian" mandate as was granted in Libya.

Heres Hillary, "Assad must go".

a reply to: Vovin

I'm surprised he hasn't claimed that Russia was behind 9/11 yet. Every post this guy makes is a jab at Russia, even in the cryptozoology forum.

Really, lol. Kind of telling. Glad others see it, too.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Vovin

I'm surprised he hasn't claimed that Russia was behind 9/11 yet. Every post this guy makes is a jab at Russia, even in the cryptozoology forum.

Really, lol. Kind of telling. Glad others see it, too.

Xcathdra I thank you for your opposing arguments since it makes me have to formulate my thinking that is use full when talking to other people and tell them about US current insane behavior.

Without you counter opposition I would not have as well fleshed out arguments against your "US can do no real wrong since US are moral upstanding people who never lie and subjugate other people for profit".

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Xcathdra

So arming and funding the FSA is not contributing to the Syrian problem? I didn't say the USA started the war, I'm saying that they have caused more issues through backing the opposition which has allowed this war to continue.

No more than Russia and Iran sending military aid to Assad. Then again I don't see the FSA using helicopters against pro Assad forces nor do I see the FSA using jet aircraft nor do I see the FSA using chlorine gas / chemicals / barrel bombs.

again it cuts both ways.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If the USA and Europe and I guess the disgusting Saudi's stayed out of the internal affairs of Syria, do you think we would be witnessing the atrocities in Syria today?

Yes

a reply to: LittleByLittle

7 years ago during the Bush Administration.

Bush is no longer in office, our President is a disaster when it comes to competently using the military and Syria and Assad are still there.

Not everything is a sinister conspiracy and the US is not the only country on the planet, let alone involved in affairs in the Middle East.

As for Ukraine / Crimea the Russians have gone thru 20 plus justifications to go into Crimea, depending on what story would work best for them.

Russia invaded Ukraine, not the US / NATO or the EU.

At what point are you guys going to stop categorizing everyone in Ukraine who is not Pro Russian as Nazis?

a reply to: intrptr

Russia has vetoed several proposals in the UN so again its not just the US / allies that are at fault for everything.

The United States, like Russia and China and many other countries, sell military hardware. Not to mention countries who have the ability / approval to make weapons based off the US design.

As for the video clip find the full length one and watch it and then place it into context in 2012 when she made the statement.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Xcathdra

So arming and funding the FSA is not contributing to the Syrian problem? I didn't say the USA started the war, I'm saying that they have caused more issues through backing the opposition which has allowed this war to continue.

No more than Russia and Iran sending military aid to Assad. Then again I don't see the FSA using helicopters against pro Assad forces nor do I see the FSA using jet aircraft nor do I see the FSA using chlorine gas / chemicals / barrel bombs.

again it cuts both ways.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If the USA and Europe and I guess the disgusting Saudi's stayed out of the internal affairs of Syria, do you think we would be witnessing the atrocities in Syria today?

Yes

Except that Assad's regime is a long-established government of a sovereign nationstate, quite unlike the ragtag Islamofascist invaders that the west already destroyed Libya for and nearly did the same to Syria before Russia blocked them with diplomacy and common sense.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I have never stated the US can do no wrong.

I am engaging in a debate / discussion and sharing my views and how I arrived at my conclusions.

As for some of the others in the thread its the typical attack the poster instead of refuting the information.

a reply to: Vovin

Now only if we can get Russia to behave in the same manner with regards to Ukraine.

How is it you and some others can support Russia's actions in Syria while at the very same time hold a complete opposite viewpoint for Ukraine?

Ukraine was a sovereign nation-state as was Syria.
Support for Assad because there are "foreign forces" trying to overthrow Assad while Russia supports the groups trying to overthrow the government in Ukraine.

Out of curiosity were their election observers in Syria?
Has Syria released the voting info in raw form?


Interestingly enough the argument made by some about the Syrian government and its actions is hypocritical.

Its ok for Assad to use his air force to go after rebels but not ok for Ukraine to do the same?
Its ok for Syria to send their ground forces to counter rebel movements but not ok for Ukraine.

Both are sovereign nations.
Both have legitimate, recognized governments.

meh.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Obama is Bush 3 and 4. Plans do not change because of there is a change of puppet. If they do why is US still so hostile towards Iran and Syria?

There are some anti-Russia that are not Nazi but neo Nazis and funded NGO:s are the reasons Ukraine people protest grew.

Not everything is a sinister conspiracy and the US is not the only country on the planet, let alone involved in affairs in the Middle East.

Sorry revolutions do not miraculously happen according to US/Saudi Arabian agenda all over the world by chance without something in the background guiding it.

Iraq-Invasion
Afghanistan-Invasion
Lybia-Tactical strikes
Syria-Saudi sponsored/Wanted Tactical strikes/Chemical weapons to used on citizens by US/Saudi allies
Ukraine-Pro western EU puppet government not elected by the people
Terror strike in Russia by Saudi Arabian controlled groups.

I am not 100% opposed to the current Ukraine situation since Viktor Yanukovych was very corrupt but so are the IMF and FED so it seems no matter what Ukraine do they are screwed.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Vovin

Now only if we can get Russia to behave in the same manner with regards to Ukraine.

How is it you and some others can support Russia's actions in Syria while at the very same time hold a complete opposite viewpoint for Ukraine?

Ukraine was a sovereign nation-state as was Syria.
Support for Assad because there are "foreign forces" trying to overthrow Assad while Russia supports the groups trying to overthrow the government in Ukraine.

Out of curiosity were their election observers in Syria?
Has Syria released the voting info in raw form?


Interestingly enough the argument made by some about the Syrian government and its actions is hypocritical.

Its ok for Assad to use his air force to go after rebels but not ok for Ukraine to do the same?
Its ok for Syria to send their ground forces to counter rebel movements but not ok for Ukraine.

Both are sovereign nations.
Both have legitimate, recognized governments.

meh.

The obvious difference between Ukraine and Syria is that the war in Syria is against an influx of foreign far-right terrorists and the war in Ukraine involves a far-right coup attacking separatists who are Ukrainian.

Your comment about how Russia should treat Ukraine the same as Syria is redundant, because Russia is already doing that. Russia had a wide-open window to jump right in today when junta attack planes crossed into Russian airspace in order to turn back and strike a border outpost. Russia could have easily blasted those jets out of the sky and claimed that they were moving in to attack within the Russian border.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle


Obama is Bush 3 and 4. Plans do not change because of there is a change of puppet. If they do why is US still so hostile towards Iran and Syria?

Actually plans do change when new people are elected into office. 5 minutes researching Vietnam / John F. Kennedy / Lyndon Johnson is absolute proof of that.

Syria
- The history of the regime comes to mind. Not to mention recent actions by Assad towards his own citizens.

Iran
- Their nuclear program, specifically the military elements. The US has stated time and again that Iran has a right to nuclear power, contrary to the propaganda they put out. The issue is the possible acquisition of the bomb.
- The manner in which the Iranian government has handled protests.
- Support for groups listed as terror groups.
- The every other day great Satan / lesser Satan chants etc.

Why is Iran and Syria so hostile towards the United states / Israel / Saudi Arabia / Bahrain / European countries?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
There are some anti-Russia that are not Nazi but neo Nazis and funded NGO:s are the reasons Ukraine people protest grew.

No its not - Again 5 minutes of research and you would see the claim you made is baseless. The Nazi / Neo Nazi argument was started by Putin as controlled propaganda to justify his actions. There was an article recently posted in one of these Russia / Ukraine threads that talked about Russian support for Putin being extremely high with regards to Ukraine.

The problem in that information, which was pointed out in the article, was the constant misinformation Putin's state controlled media put out which resulted in an artificial inflation of support based on false / misleading information.

The protests grew because Yanukovych decided freedom of speech / freedom to protest should be controlled and in the end ordered the crackdown resulting in what we have now.

Can you elaborate more on the NGO portion?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Sorry revolutions do not miraculously happen according to US/Saudi Arabian agenda all over the world by chance without something in the background guiding it.

Yes they do and once again trying to lay all the blame at the doorsteps of the US / west is without merit / base. Also the exact same argument can be applied to Russia, Syria, Iran, etc etc etc.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Iraq-Invasion
Afghanistan-Invasion
Lybia-Tactical strikes
Syria-Saudi sponsored/Wanted Tactical strikes/Chemical weapons to used on citizens by US/Saudi allies
Ukraine-Pro western EU puppet government not elected by the people
Terror strike in Russia by Saudi Arabian controlled groups.

* - Russia invasion Chechnya / Ukraine
* - Russian invasion of Afghanistan
* - Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia
* - Russian invasion of Georgia
* - Russian invasion of Hungary


* - Chechen tactical strikes by Russia for the list above.
* - Use of chemical weapons by Assad on Syrians.

* - The Ukraine Parliament was elected in 2012 and Russia observed the elections and recognized the results. When Yanukovych was lawfully removed those elected members of Parliament formed a transitional government under the Ukrainian Constitution. It required Presidential elections be held within 90 days, which is what occurred. Russia has recognized the new government (We respect the choice of the Ukrainian people).

* - Terror strikes in Ukraine by Russian controlled groups.


As I stated this is a 2 way road and the more mud people try to fling at only one side the dirtier they get.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
I am not 100% opposed to the current Ukraine situation since Viktor Yanukovych was very corrupt but so are the IMF and FED so it seems no matter what Ukraine do they are screwed.

* - I agree with the comment about the FED and want to see it go.
* - The IMF argument is circular because Russia is a Russia is a member of the IMF.
* - Yanukovych has been under constant investigation in Ukraine starting around 2004. The elections that year made headlines because of election fraud on the part of Yanukovych. A revote was required in several regions as a result. He has funneled millions of dollars from government accounts to his and his sons bank accounts. He built a 75 million dollar home while only making 35k a year.

I will point out that you ignored Russian involvement AND support for Yanukovych, not to mention Crimea.

With that said this is what I am talking about. To accuse the US /West while ignoring the very same issues on the other side is a problem.

The goal should be to stop actions that result in these types of situations. To denounce and action only to then take the same action while trying to justify it is why we have these situations.

To denounce an action only to take the action with the justification of "well the US / EU / West did it" does not validate the action.

If someone finds an action that is abhorrent and rails against it, only to justify via excuses when its done by the other side of the coin makes people question the sincerity behind the original outrage.

As an example the argument made about Ukraine and what's going on followed with the defense of Syria for the same thing but with the tables reversed.

originally posted by: Xcathdra


No more than Russia and Iran sending military aid to Assad. Then again I don't see the FSA using helicopters against pro Assad forces nor do I see the FSA using jet aircraft nor do I see the FSA using chlorine gas / chemicals / barrel bombs.

again it cuts both ways.

But the difference is Russia, Iran and Syria are sovereign States and allies.. The FSA and the other groups who are fighting in Syria who have got their hands on the aid sent from the West are extremists. The are not a legitimate government and have no right to be invading and slaughtering who ever they choose too. Assad as the President of Syria regardless of whether we like him or not has every right to defend Syria and if that means gaining support from Syria's allies also then so be it.


Let's use an example of the same happening on the US homeland.. If Mexican drug cartels decided to take over major cities in the USA whilst killing innocent civilians who didn't comply with their demands, would you expect Obama to sit their and do nothing? What if Australia started militarising and funding the Cartels, would you say this is OK? That is exactly the scenario when it comes to the opposition in Syria except in the Syrian story, the opposition are Terrorist cartels. I'm pretty sure if the same were to emerge in your country you would disagree with it so how can you agree with foreign extremists doing the exact same thing in another's country?

Yes

I'm pretty certain that things wouldn't be the way they are today. This could of been nipped in the bud without external interference. Maybe 200,000 dead people would still be alive and Syria back to the way it was previously.

a reply to: Vovin

Russia sent in military units into Ukraine and Ukraine has a right to defend itself from those outside Russian groups.

Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

Russian President Vladimir Putin has acknowledged that Russian troops were present in Crimea before the referendum and argued that was necessary to let Crimeans make the choice on the future of the region.

The armed men in military uniform without insignia, dubbed “the little green men” or “the polite people,” who were present in Crimea before and during the referendum there, were Russian troops, Vladimir Putin acknowledged speaking at a Q&A session with on Thursday. The president said he never concealed the fact from his foreign counterparts, and explained to them that it was the only way to ensure the referendum on the region’s status would be carried out peacefully.

“Crimean self-defense forces were of course backed by Russian servicemen,” Putin said. “They acted very appropriately, but as I’ve already said decisively and professionally.”

Putin had to touch upon the Crimea topic multiple times throughout his Q&A session. He emphasized that Russia did not acquire Crimea by force, but created, with the help of its special forces, conditions for Crimeans to decide upon their own future.

Photos Link Masked Men in East Ukraine to Russia

Russia has recognized the election in Ukraine so you are alone / in the minority about a coup.

Since the Russian junta has violated the airspace of many NATO and non NATO nations in the last 2 years Russia has no room to talk about territorial violations.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Its been proven that not all "Pro Russians" are Ukrainian. Secondly the referendum votes in Crimea, the south and east violated Ukraine's constitution. Ukraine has every right to repel Russian forces, or forces loyal to Russia. Ukraine is a sovereign state and they are under attack by the Russian equivalent in Syria.

Cossacks and Chechen's are operating in Ukraine to further the Russian goal.
Even if you want to make the argument they are not operating under Russian control, Ukraine would still have every right to engage those groups, and those groups working with them.

Your analogy only furthers to reinforce my argument about Syria and Ukraine.


Please tell me you didn't just support / justify the death of 200k people simply because the US was not involved. If the west were not involved period you would be ok with 200k deaths in Syria?

Secondly Iran has forces inside Syria doing as much killing of civilians than Assad forces. I just don't understand how one can justify a death count by means of non involvement.

If that's not what you meant then please clarify.

In the end Assad is the best choice for stability in Syria.
As it has been noted , Most of the population in Syria know this hence the outcome.

Though no doute the US and her sheep will find a way to dis-courage this result.
Maybe with a little luck, The latest result will calm things down a little, But i highly doute it.
I dont think Assads enemies are going to back down anytime soon. Especially as they have the backing of most of the west.

Trouble is things like this can just go on and on, Every day more people are joining the fight on both sides.
Its just sad to think how many innocent people's lives have been lost or mis-placed by this.