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'Get out of EU,' ex-French PM Rocard tells Britain

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posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:54 PM
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It seems we are approaching a watershed in European politics.

People in the UK are becoming increasingly disillusioned with what is perceived as an overly bureaucratic and dictatorial European Union.
This was shown by the remarkable increase in support for the anti-EU UKIP in the recent European parliament elections.

But at the same time it seems patience is wearing thin on the continent and many feel it is time the UK either committed wholeheartedly to the EU or withdraws membership altogether.
Some, such as ex-French Prime Minister Michel Rocard are even suggesting that the EU should kick the UK out.

www.reuters.com...

Rocard is reported to have accused Britain of;

.....having only joined the European Union to serve its commercial interests,
adding it should

leave before it caused further damage.


UK Prime Minister David Cameron is trying to use the rise of UKIP as a bargaining tool for the UK but he may have a hard time trying to negotiate further concessions for the UK in light of such sentiment.

At the same time an editorial in widely read German magazine Der Spiegel states that it is "Decision Time: Britain Must Choose Now If It Will Stay in Europe"

www.spiegel.de...

The UK has tried to play hard ball on a number of issues and has sought separate agreements from the EU on several issues including retaining its own independent currency and a budget rebate.

Domestically there is a view in the UK that the EU is undemocratic and authoritarian.
In addition there is growing concern over the open door immigration policy and the effect of what some believe is excessive immigration into the UK from Eastern European countries, the transferal of sovereignty and legislative power to the EU and the move towards even greater political union within the EU.

The view that the EU is somehow 'undemocratic' is one that many continental Europeans disagree with.
Nothing shows this more than the different stances taken on appointment of the next President of the European Commission.
Jean-Claude Juncker is the almost unanimous choice and the representative of the largest block of MEP's elected in the recent European elections, thus being the 'democratic' choice.
en.wikipedia.org...
Juncker is a committed and long-standing advocate of greater political union within the EU.
Juncker would be immensely unpopular in the UK and his election and subsequent policies could further strengthen support for UKIP in the UK.

With the increasing calls for an In / Out Referendum in the UK and growing disquiet on the continent over the UK's stance is divorce inevitable?
edit on 4/6/14 by Freeborn because: clarity




posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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My country only joined last year. Great news!a reply to: Freeborn



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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That is excellent advice to any country. I would like to add the UN as another craptastic organization to get out of ASAP.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:15 PM
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There is something sinister in the whole EU. What is in the idea to get more EU members ( ex warsaw pact countries ) to join this union when there is nothing economically rewarding and this makes all countries which were standing on their own pedestals strongly before weaker, now they all suffering debt and economical meltdown . Is there any other reasons than expanding EU borders closer and closer to Russia and by that making NATO stronger.

Yeah we all should get out of EU.. there is no point being a member

All the jobs are taken abroad ( even traditional brands which we believe are domestic ) and rest of the jobs given to people with minimum wage. Unemployment has increased with goverment debt.

If there is someone against getting out of EU its the big companies ( they are getting more out of EU than contributing to it )
edit on 4-6-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
There is something sinister in the whole EU. What is in the idea to get more EU members ( ex warsaw pact countries ) to join this union when there is nothing economically rewarding and this makes all countries which were standing on their own pedestals strongly before weaker, now they all suffering debt and economical meltdown . Is there any other reasons than expanding EU borders closer and closer to Russia and by that making NATO stronger.

Yeah we all should get out of EU.. there is no point being a member

Well reflected! Just look at the turnout statistics from the recent euro-elections.
graphics.wsj.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: dollukka

The thing is, in 1975 the British voted in a referendum for continued membership of what was then called The European Economic Community, EEC.
It was a vote to be a part of a free trade association, not political union.

And I think the vast majority still believe that a free trade agreement between independent European nations is a good idea.
There's probably even much support for a shared defence policy.

But the EU has become something that is much more than that and even greater political union seems to be on the agenda.

Its quite clear that there has always been a gulf between the UK's perception of the EU and that of most continental Europeans - and that gulf is widening.
How long can we paper over the cracks?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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well if the EU doesn't want the UK fine. The Isles need to retain what character and individuality they have left.

Maybe the US, Uk, Australia and Canada can all make their own exclusive union. That is really the only countries I have love for.

The EU is already in self destruct mode and within a decade the 3rd world savages imported by the millions will turn it into a cesspool with small enclaves of wealth and civility.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

The agreement what countries signed for has changed, they were fooled to join.
In 1994 when our country joined they promised
1. Price of food will come down ( didn´t happen )
2. Price of Alcohol will come down ( didn´t happen )
3. Import limits ( alcohol ) will be removed ( didn´t happen .. this is kinda comical as Finns are known of their heavy alcohol use ( which is not that heavy anymore when compared to other countries ) as this propably was a good sign to some people living here )
4. Road taxes to new cars will be removed ( didn´t happen instead taxes has inreased ) and price of the new cars will come down ( didn´t happen )
5. There will be incredible increase of investments from abroad ( well didn´t happen.. who would like to invest in here anyway )
6. 100 000 new jobs ( didn´t happen..quite the opposite )
7. We can keep our own currency ( what a lie )
8. EU will never become a federal state ( now we know better .. another lie )
9. Taxation will go down due decrease of value added tax ( every year we have paid more tax.. another lie )
10. We can decide on EU matters when we are in EU ( we must have poor MEPs as we have had couple of seats but puppets sitting there do not serve their own country´s intrest at all.. )

What a joke really.. there is a saying.. Its not a fool who asks but the fool is who pays ..



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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I'm no expert on this so would like to ask a question.

If we (UK) are no longer a member, what will it mean for the ordinary man on the street?
Am I correct in thinking that a lot of workers rights etc only came about because we joined?
If we leave who will keep our out of control governments from stripping us of our rights?

Just wondering



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: dollukka

I don't know where all the support for the EU comes from.

I don't know one person here in the UK who openly supports increased political union.
And whenever I talk to people from Western and Northern Europe they all more or less express the same opinion - consensus on the benefits of a free trade association and a mutual defence policy whilst retaining national sovereignty.

Is it only the politicians who support this move towards political union and the pursuance of a globalist agenda?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: VoidHawk



I'm no expert on this so would like to ask a question.


Well that's two of us...the last thing I could be called is an 'expert', just call it as I see it.



If we (UK) are no longer a member, what will it mean for the ordinary man on the street?


I don't know.
I've never professed to have all the answers either.

But surely that's more the reason why we should have an open, honest and public debate on the subject allowing for all opinions, possible scenario's, consequences either way to be discussed and then for the British people to make an informed vote on what they want.
What we have at present is an illegal and treasonous transfer of sovereignty to a foreign legislative body.

If we decide to stay within the EU well then OK, but its been our choice and we then take a full and prominent role in the development of the EU and implementing its policies and laws.

And if we decide to leave we are then fully aware of the options open to us and the possible hard road ahead.

But it would be our choice and not faceless, self-serving politicians and bureaucrats.



Am I correct in thinking that a lot of workers rights etc only came about because we joined?


Well, its my understanding that most of those rights were gained after both World Wars and for the last 40 years or so it has been successive British governments who have sought to take these rights away from us.
Maybe they have safe-guarded one or two but they have also imposed many restrictive policies and increased red-tape and bureaucracy.



If we leave who will keep our out of control governments from stripping us of our rights?


But isn't the EU out of control seeking to assert its authority over our Parliament?

We have little chance of changing our own system for the better whilst also struggling against the over-bearing and dictatorial EU as well.



Just wondering


Juat trying to answer my friend.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

Roots of Eu are in providing peace, first step to EU was 1951 with ECSC European Coal and Steel Community when 6 countries agreed on supervising resources in Europe and the threat of Germany using their resources against France was removed. Then came trade agreements and after that EU.

There is nothing wrong in free trade agreements and EU should had sticked on those only. This pursuit of peace achieving more countries in EU actually had made tensions with Russia worse.
Somewhere in a process something went wrong.. EU is not for the people EU is for domination of the few. Where money goes .. who benefits from this ?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn
Thanks for the reply.
It was a genuine question


Personally I'm frightened by those that run our country, and I don't like being under the influence of the EU either, but I'm worried by what those clowns in our government will get up to when they have no entity watching over them!

Could be a case of - out of the frying pan and into the fire!



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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I think what needs to happen is exactly what Cameron is suggesting... Brussels is to pushing

You don't just jump in the bath without checking the water first the UK needs time to adapt and control how fast it plunges it's sacks In to the hot water

The EU and the UK as a union, need special arrangements to make it happen, I think there's no question the UK wants to join arms that it would be a great relationship eventually and I'm the long run stronger economically bit it's still in its infancy, the US is a great example of how well things can work

In all honestly I think a western union would be on the cards in the not so distant future when the dolla goes tits up with possibly the US and the EU joining forces



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: VoidHawk



Thanks for the reply.






Personally I'm frightened by those that run our country,


Yeah, they scare the crap out of me as well.



.....and I don't like being under the influence of the EU either,


Its not just that I don't like the EU - I simply deny that they have any legal authority over me and my countrymen.
Every PM since Heath and the Monarch have been complicit in the treasonous transfer of sovereignty to Brussels.



....but I'm worried by what those clowns in our government will get up to when they have no entity watching over them!


But the European Parliament should not have authority over the UK Parliament.
We've killed Kings and brother fought brother to establish the fact that Parliament must be the ultimate authority in the UK.
We are British and we rule ourselves - I don't want some faceless politician from Luxembourg or anywhere else governing me.

If you don't like what our MP's are doing then get involved and force them to be the representatives they are supposed to be.
If you disagree with our electoral and parliamentary processes and procedures try to change them.

Our politicians are answerable to us and it is your right, some would say your duty, to look over and demand that they act in accordance with the cares and concerns of their constituents.



Could be a case of - out of the frying pan and into the fire!


We achieved great things without the monstrosity that is the EU, why can't we again?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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Is Britain still a nation state?

An interesting read;
www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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The circumstances behind our joining were dodgy in the first place.

Edward Heath's government signed us up in 1973 without consulting anybody.

The referendum 2 years later was about whether we wished to remain members or not; nice of them to ask us if we'd like to remain members of a club we never had a say in joining, wasn't it?

And as you point out OP, it was the EEC back then, not the EU...very different animal.

The Working Time Directives are the only thing to benefit the man in the street, as far as I can tell.

What is the point of the EU?

It was conceived at the end of WW2 to prevent war in Europe...in a world not yet familiar with the concepts of independent nuclear deterrence and mutual assured destruction.

Winston Churchill was an enthusiastic supporter, and he was the first person to talk about a "United States of Europe".

We should have been listening.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

The european union used us, there fishermen destroyed our fishing industry and destocked our waters (as sadly we did to iceland) and even when we where giving 5 billion in subsidies in the 1990's we where getting back only 4 billion in euro grant's so we where a net provider but overall despite the economic benefit to a group of wealthy people whom hated having to pay exit taxes and wanted a unified economic structer for there and not our benefit the european union has not been good for britain.
It served to try to prevent a war in the future by closer economic and political ties but has become a bandwagon for a corrupt brussels autocracy which to the voters of britain seems very undemocratic, they have done some good things such as the human rights law's and at time the european law courts and courst of human rights have served good points but have also been abused.
Unlike america the european nations states have seperate history's, languages and traditions and the closest thing is the former yugoslavian federation which though communist was like the european union on a smaller scale and look what eventually happened there as it was only held together by one mans dreams of unity, when TITO died it came apart violently.
America on the other hand started as a handful of states with shared principle's, language and belief's and grew like an acorn into an oak and though today it is more fractious than ever before it remains a strong union with the majority willing to fight to keep it so and intensely proud of there history.
Europe simply can not emulate america it is not built the same and has far more people as a whole but most europeans would like to be american's and perversely the more anti american they are the more true that is.

Sadly the Ukip party is more right wing than ultra thatcherite Torys and is indeed mainly made up of such while at least the british electorate whom are not racists but are indeed fed up have woken up to the evil that the BNP represents but Labour is also a puppet on the same hand as the Tory party so in truth even though I obviously hate the tory party only there offering of a Referendum to the british voters makes any sense but if we do stay in europe the job implications need to be overhauled at state level and taken out of brussels hand's until such time perhaps a hundred years away that we share a common culture and have outgrown our nation centric view points.

I would like us out of europe and british job's to go to british workers but am not convinced that british industry (what is left of it since the thatcherite sell off and ensuing subsidy removal) can then compete as it may find itself effectively locked out as the man outside and the billy no mates of eurpean industry.

The reason for the landslide of the UKIP is simply that mr farage said what was on everyone's minds' not just here but also in europe, we do not want the romanian or bulgarian gypsys whom we owe nothing to and whom have no historical claim on our country in it when all they want it not to work but to claim from our social security and live a free life at our taxpayers expense, indeed we are offended as a nation whose forefathers fought and died for our country that our own government would allow such when that social security was set up for our people and especially for our war veterans and THERE familys as was our social housing after the second world war and for which purpose alone it was intended as well as to serve a social safety net to look after our OWN nation as an extended family (Drug users and benefit fraudsters were definitely not the intention of the social welfare state and most certainly neither were foreigners whom our country then would have simply sent home unlike the namby pamby cruel and self serving politicians of today).
edit on 5-6-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 04:56 AM
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I have yet to read or listen to anything that makes a reasonable argument for increased political union within the EU.
Yet still that is the clear goal for many senior Eurocrats - they want Brussels / Strasbourg, (what a complete farce and extravagant waste of money that is), to have even greater control.

I suspect the EU Federalists will hold out and demand that their candidate Jean-Claude Juncker be appointed President of the European Commission.
That will put Cameron in a bit of a spot - he's allegedly told Merkel that any such appointment may force him to bring forward an In/Out referendum in the UK.
If Juncker is appointed and Cameron doesn't bring the referendum forward he looks weak and full of empty threats in the eyes of Merkel et al and he risks even further alienating more voters back in the UK.
That could be devastating for Cameron domestically bearing in mind there will be a UK General Election in early May 2015.
Can Cameron risk losing even more voters to UKIP?

But if he does bring the referendum forward there is a good chance the UK will vote to come out of the EU - something none of the major political parties want.

I truly believe we are approaching a critical moment.
The EU seems determined to continue down the road towards full political and economic union.
They seem to be neither willing or capable of carrying anyone who isn't fully committed to the same vision.

And it seems equally apparent that the British people are demanding their say before agreeing to opt in or out of any such journey.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

The way I see it is that during the first half of the 20th century two bloody
wars were fought to keep our own, and other countries freedom.
Now the very country who lost those wars are the leading force in the EU
making all the rules which we are obliged to follow?

(Old saying ....Softly softly catchie monkey?)

Free Trading is supposed to be the reason behind the EU.... however the whole
world has traded since the beginning of time and with separate currencies too.
First rule of business If you have the product or service required at the best
price, transactions will take place, any extra layers of bureaucracy are
totally un necessary.

Countries, like families historically have different priorities, values and budget
requirements. How on earth was one currency ever going to bridge those
gaps?

(Truth is one size doesn't fit all?)

We don't even have the freedom to control our own borders. FACT is we are
smaller (actual land area) than most of the other members of the EU, but
definitely smaller than the 'main dictators' Germany and France. It's all
very well them plying the open borders and immigrant policies, but we have
a finite amount of space on this small island of ours, and the majority of
immigrants
by pass all of their borders to get to the UK.

(Hmmm wonder why? soft touch? or our benevolence?)

Take this on a smaller level ... who on here would allow the family in the
biggest house on their street dictate to them how they spend their income,
who they let into their homes, what they do or plant in their garden's, or
how they live their lives?





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