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Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

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posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: yeahright


What if the local skinheads show up at a Jewish bakery and want a swastika cake with "Happy Birthday Adolph, too bad you didn't finish the job" on it? Does he have to make it for them?




This question has been posed several times over and is willfully ignored.

Good luck getting an answer.




posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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I don't know why Coloradans aren't supporting this guy, imo it's not because of government's heavy hand.

Like I said we wanted pot we got it if we wanted to help this guy we would. Does that make us a horrible pot loving state that hates religion?

Apparently not there's lots of churches in CO yet very little support for the baker. Maybe our religious community isn't so uptight. Gays are a minority but they rallied support from within the majority. The baker can hit the streets do the same.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: macman

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

My bad. Haven't read all 15 pages, which entitles me to a knuckle rap.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: yeahright
So if he refuses to sell a gay themed wedding cake to anyone, is that ok? The way I read it, he wasn't refusing to sell them a cake, he was refusing to sell a gay wedding cake.


Are you serious? A gay wedding cake? They walked into the bakery and said they wanted a wedding cake and the baker refused. There was no talk of details of the cake, and certainly not a "gay-themed" wedding cake, whatever that is.

This couple wanted, and eventually bought a very normal looking cake from another baker. See it here. www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I know what you're talking about and I still see absolutely no comparison on ANY level.

Race had public accommodations split between 'Colored' and 'White' Bathrooms, Drinking Fountains, Swimming Pools, School Rooms, Dining rooms, Neighborhoods and every other thing. Segregation and Racial 'place' was enforced with brutal violence, when necessary, as shown by the requirement for actual troops in Little Rock to see a little black girl attend school without being hurt or killed while pursuing her right.

I'm aware of the strong desire to equate the two, and I've never had any kind thoughts about it. I recall in the start, a fair number of black people also objected to the relativism being laid between a struggle that cost countless lives, destroyed millions more and took a couple centuries to really accomplish in this nation....and many would argue it still has work to be done vs a movement of social justice.

Do Gays deserve equal status and protection? Well, of course they do. They didn't stop being human beings somewhere along the way, and so rights like Inheritance, medical authority and legally recognized Unions are all critical, and long over due.

Does the lack of a marriage certificate equate to the hell that Civil Rights describes as the movement and period of American history? Absolutely not...on even a passing level. Just two radically different things that have nothing in common beyond the passion and drive of those pushing to see old wrongs set something like right.

We all have different interpretations of historic record and how it forms today's reality though.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: yeahright

Oh for the love of ... How many times must I say this???? If you make white wedding cakes with flowers and doves on them for the straight couples, and a gay couple asks you to make that same wedding cake with flowers and doves on it for them and you refuse - THAT is discriminatory. If you decide that your bakery will never decorate a huge penis on any cake you make and you refuse both the straight person and the gay person (and all other people) who request that kind of decoration - THAT is not discriminatory.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Are you serious? A gay wedding cake?


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

From the OP's link:


The controversy started in 2012 when a gay couple asked Phillips to make their wedding cake. Phillips politely declined, saying he could not make a cake promoting a same-sex ceremony because of his faith. He offered to make them any other baked item they wanted.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: macman
This question has been posed several times over and is willfully ignored.


It has not been ignored. If a Jewish bakery doesn't already make swastika cakes for other patrons, then they are under no obligation to make one for the skinheads.

This Colorado baker made wedding cakes. The couple asked for one and were immediately refused and told it was because the baker didn't believe in gay marriage.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: kaylaluv

As noted earlier... Some of us cannot see any comparison between the Civil Rights movement of this nation for the equality of Race and the effort to bring protections to gay couples with legal rights for those unions.

Some folks see the two as the same, but to me? Civil Rights were about whether a man, simply standing there and saying and doing nothing more, should be taken as 1/4 or 100% of a full citizen or whether the original founders were right about their fractional measure to different racial types.

In Gay protections and Gay community activism, we have a situation where a man can stand there, again, but this time? Be denied nothing, be looked at with no difference and really not be known as BEING different to anyone's thinking without first taking active measures to inform others of that difference. Even then, discrimination based on that difference is protected in many states.

Equating a bakery making a cake to the horrors of racial civil rights and the slavery that is associated with it is outright offensive to some folks tho. Myself among them.


Are you really saying here that homosexuals have never been treated any differently merely for being homosexual in this country? You can't be saying that, can you? You can't be diminishing the struggle against sodomy laws, police brutality, and decades of openly-admitted hate crimes to a "bakery making a cake" ... can you?
edit on 15Wed, 04 Jun 2014 15:53:04 -050014p032014666 by Gryphon66 because: Added a hyphen.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: yeahright

I know the story inside out, up and down and backwards. What's your point? Wedding cakes are neither gay nor straight. They asked for a wedding cake, not a "gay wedding cake".



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: NavyDoc

Commons has not one thing to do with communism or communal anything. And to a degree we most certainly are talking about taxpayer and municipal things. Where does it make the most sense to set up a business? Off public roads in the woods somewhere or in highly trafficked areas with easy access from the road? Roads are paid for by whom?

I suggest you learn about Public Accommodation and The Commons.


The Commons was not part of our founding principles nor has anything to do with liberty and is a rather new, lefty way of thinking about things and one of it's major proponents was Karl Marx--saying that it is part of, or necessary for liberty, is not only disingenuous but outright deceitful. The concept is actually anti-liberty as it is anti individual property for the most part as any thing you own could conceivable be called part of the "commons." I'm not surprised you espouse this way of thinking though.

The shop owner pays taxes as well--a hell of a lot of them as you probably don't realize. He pays for the road and sidewalk in front of his shop, so to claim that a private business must be considered a public entity because he may use taxpayer funded roads or sidewalks or police is a false statement.

I'm curious. Are you against affirmative action or preferences given by government to minority owned businesses?
edit on 4-6-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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This baker had previously made a wedding cake for two dogs. This fact gives the lie to the idea that religious beliefs govern the baker in question decisions about who will be served.

It is not a matter of religious freedom, it is a matter of public accommodation.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yeah just stay in the closet, don't bother with the human instinct to hold hands with your partner and don't have kids because calling two women mommy or two men daddy entitles bakers to not bake you a cake.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

He did NOT refuse them service. He offered to make them something, just not a wedding cake for a gay wedding.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




And since when does a business owner have the right to refuse to sell you something based on what you're going to do with the item? It none of his business what the cake is to be used for.

Keep in mind, this same baker made a wedding cake for two DOGS that were "getting married".



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It isn't just blacks. There were places in Texas that refused service to Mexicans until the public accommodation laws took effect. And the Mexicans didn't have access to separate restrooms or drinking fountains either. They were just SOL.
You cannot turn someone away just because they are black or brown or yellow, or a woman, or a Muslim or (in Colorado at least) gay. So yes, I will compare them in that respect.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: macman
This question has been posed several times over and is willfully ignored.


It has not been ignored. If a Jewish bakery doesn't already make swastika cakes for other patrons, then they are under no obligation to make one for the skinheads.

This Colorado baker made wedding cakes. The couple asked for one and were immediately refused and told it was because the baker didn't believe in gay marriage.


That makes no sense, why would they make swastika cakes for other patrons? There is only one sort of patron that would want a swastika cake. The Jewish man, a holocaust survivor is asked to bake a birthday cake and he is told that it is in celebration of Hitler's Birthday and all they want is plain white frosting and "Happy Birthday" on it. Should the baker who bakes the same cake he does for everyone else not have the right to refuse to bake a cake that commemorates the man who put him in Sobibor ? Really? You think he not have that right?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Okay let's take this leap.


“Jack doesn’t turn people away,” Martin told me. “There are just some events that he won’t lend his artistry to.”


Jewish bakery, skinheads.

"Hey, we'd like one of those carmel frosted fudge cakes for a big party this weekend. We're celebrating 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust."

Right to refuse, or no?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

He did NOT refuse them service. He offered to make them something, just not a wedding cake for a gay wedding.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




And since when does a business owner have the right to refuse to sell you something based on what you're going to do with the item? It none of his business what the cake is to be used for.

Keep in mind, this same baker made a wedding cake for two DOGS that were "getting married".


Cool. So if a guy in stereotypical inner city thug garb wants to buy a gun and he says something like "I'm gonna take care of some # with this" and the store owner is uncomfortable about said sale, he would be forced to sell the man a gun lest he be sued for discrimination?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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It is my opinion that we have discrimination rights when it comes to government services, medical services and employment.

But, it ends there. People have the right to discriminate and it's rooted in the right to free speech and religion. If the local supermarket does not want to serve someone because they are gay or black, they have that right.

They also have to pay the consequences of that decision. If a business owner wants to discriminate and the people in the area are good, moral people.....they will go out of business real quick.

I say let people like this baker have their opinions and let them do what they want to do. When they cross the line in to discrimination, let the free market punish them.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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Meh, just Americans learning that the only rights they have are the rights the government says they have. Get over it.
a reply to: Metallicus




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