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Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

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posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
Waaaaaahhhhhh... I no longer have the liberty to deny liberty to others.


How is not wanting to make a pastry for someone denying them liberty. Were they unable to go to the shop down the street and get their cake there? Were they held down and prevented from buying a cake elsewhere? How is "liberty" defined as being able to force your fellow man to do something they don't want to do? Methinks you might need to look up that word.




posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't foresee that happening.

However I have been in that sort of situation.
It would be wrong to refuse service to the customer.

However if it was me. I'd jack up the price.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Yes but I already addressed that in a previous post, his belief is not one based on the bible but out of bigotry.

Yeah I am a grown man wearing underpants, under my jeans of course.


is thesaneone an attempt at irony? Just curious.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Euphem

Thank you for this post. It goes back to a little rule I made for myself, and that is you CANNOT offend me no matter how hard you try. Being offended is a personal choice. Call me whatever name you want and more than likely you will be correct, so why be offended?

If you don't like my hairstyle and don't want to associate with me, then that is probably better for the both of us as we have very little in common anyways. And why should I go out of my way to punish you for your personal choices? If you are not causing direct harm to me or another person, then believe away.

It comes back to America trying to be too PC. Everyone gets to be chosen for the team, everyone is special and if you are not treated that way in the real world then there must be something wrong with everyone else. I don't believe anyone is special, talented yes, special no.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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I don't really understand the big deal on him not wanting to provide a wedding cake.

Let's say I, a straight male, went into a bakery that was owned and operated by men who identify themselves as homosexual. Let's also say I asked them to make a wedding cake for myself and my bride-to-be. If they were to tell me that they don't feel right about making us a cake as we are not a homosexual couple, I would be disappointed (assuming they had awesome cakes), but ultimately would say 'Thank you' and move on to another bakery. The world doesn't revolve around me.

Where is the outcry from the gay community against these people who were so self-centered that they sued a man over a cake? Instances like this honestly make gay people look bad.
edit on thp406x by Spinx because: left something out



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Nah, I really don't. This particular issue is a simple one, it's a cake, it's easy to wonder what the big deal is... if it ended there, which it doesn't. It falls under the separate and not equal category. Because if a baker can refuse service to people so can a grocer and again you might ask what the big deal is, go to another grocery store but what if I've been denied service and there's no other grocery store around for 50 miles? My cost of living should be higher if I'm married to a woman?

What about a surgeon that is on ER duty and I've been shot and I arrive in critical condition accompanied by my same sex wife but the surgeon believes it's a sin against against God for me to be married to a woman and refuses to perform surgery? I die.

If you are working in the public or doing business in the public, you don't get to decide who the public is... there's not separate publics for people to choose from, the very F'ing foundation of liberty is commons... that in the commons everyone is free to go about their business unfettered by intolerant assholes.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge

originally posted by: Never Despise
I don't think this person should be forced to make the cake, but I can at least conceive of how a legal argument might be made in this direction.

What I REALLY find objectionable is the forced "sensitivity training." For Ing somebody to provide a good or service is bad enough but saying they need to be mentally changed by the government is the kind of brainwashing one associates with Maoist China or North Korea. What is the legal basis for forcing this person to undergo some kind of government mental indoctrination?


If someone commits a crime, you don't slap them on the wrist and send them on their way.



With all due respect...are you nuts?? That happens all the time! All you need is to be wealthy.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: ObservingTheWorld

Exactly...it comes back to a post I made the other day on a different topic regarding a similar issue. Like you said, you should never go out of your way to punish someone for their personal choices, especially if they aren't harming you in any way. Unfortunately this seems to be the new trend especially when it comes to gay/race rights. I know from personal experience along with the ever increasing news coming out regarding things like this that gay rights groups are becoming bullies almost to the point of abuse in some cases.

I am not religious at all, but respect people who are. Gay people should be happy at how far we have come with gay rights, and try not to push people to far. Treat them how you want to be treated.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

This is a bigger injustice than the baker refusing the job in the first place. The government forcing small business owners to do business with anyone? Really? What about people who kite checks? Do they have to take the bad checks or risk getting sued or fined? How about drunk people who are disruptive? We should all be "sensitive" to the hobo's needs because alcoholism is a "disease" ya know - not the drunk's fault.

How many groups are going to be more equal than all the others? If the government keeps this up, they are going to have to define a pecking order for these groups so their "rights" aren't violated out of order.

What if a handicapped hispanic woman baker refuses to bake a wedding cake for an Eskimo couple because she has a fear of polar bears? Is that a push? Is there a referee we can look to?

This country is becoming bizarro world.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: mclarenmp4

How in gods name did he cause them pain? How #ing hard is it to go to another bakery in town and ask them to make them a cake?

I'm starting to see that gay is the new bully.


Nay, Political correctness is the new bully. If a gay man was in wasted in a bar and the bartender refused him a drink, is that considered homophobia? Common sense needs to prevail. Homosexual people have the same rights as everyone else but must adhere to the rules that everyone else follows.

It's called equality, and that's if that's what they want then they should get in line with the rest of us. Honestly I don't know what to think anymore, I'm afraid of calling someone a ginger without fear of a lawsuit.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be extremely reluctant to consume anything made for me by someone who might have a reason to uh... not be as careful as they otherwise might.

I've had enough bad experiences due to incompetence. Throw a little malice in there, and I think I'd rather just pick up some HoHos.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: macman

Colorado is a wonderful place. Don't see why we should all flee? I imagine the only ones leaving will be hateful bigots. Good riddance.

Colorado is unique. From what I've seen more out of state people are finding their way here than ever before, they're buying real estate/putting down roots. Even in my small town we're seeing it. Good people/families and they're bringing lots of cash.

The problem is not religion or laws it's the bakers methods. If he wants to do biz in Colorado or any state there's rules/regs. If you don't like them your only recourse is to operate in accordance with the law while fighting the good fight.

You can hang signs of support in your biz, you can pass out flyers, you can stand outside on a soap box/speak as freely as you like but you can't discriminate. Colorado decided that's exactly what he did.

The baker wants to have his "cake" and eat it too. He wants to enjoy the volume the general public provides but he wants to go outside Colorado law to weed out the riff/raff as he sees fit. Sorry but that's Texas law not Colorado. Try smoking a joint in Texas and see how far you get proclaiming that it's ok in CO.

If the best the baker can do is stand behind his cash register and play "soup nazi" he's going to fail. For whatever reason the guy hasn't rallied enough support here at home. Coloradans went to the polls in support of cannabis, if we feel strongly about something we obviously can make it happen. I guess we prefer to end discrimination rather than embrace it. We have that right. If it upsets the religious minority they will have to find other ways to express their outrage or risk violating state law.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Morningglory


So what you are saying is screw the religious minority and praise the gay minority, does anyone not see the hypocrisy going on?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: Morningglory

Yeah, what a wonderful state to be in where the owner, a private citizen is forced to be "re-educated" to the normal that is dictated by a minority.

Hey, more power to you guys there. Have fun with that. As businesses relocate to friendlier places, I will think it pretty funny as people cry the blues over lost tax revenue.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: andr3w68
Well, is the the extreme its going to take for people to realize that if someone is a human, you should treat them as one?


Right, respect the baker's right to his beliefs and go elsewhere. I am sure that is what you meant, right?


Im gonna open up my own bakers that will only serve black people, that cool?

Im part of a religion that hates white people you see. I dont agree with their choice of skin colour. I wouldnt want to anger my god by selling them bread.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

I guess it comes down to an individual's POV. Prohibiting discrimination has little to do with screwing or praising anyone. It's about equality. Both the religious/gay minorities have an equal opportunity to rally support. Support for the baker simply isn't happening here in Colorado. People from other states don't count, they're not residents.

So instead of fleeing CO because you don't like our laws, you all should be moving here to change them through the proper channels. Fight the good fight, I wish you luck. If you stimulate our economy while doing so all the better. I love outraged/compassionate people but I'm really not seeing strong emotions emanating from Coloradans in support of this baker. Go figure.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm going to open a barbecue joint that only serves gay Asian Muslim vegetarians. Then I'm applying for a government subsidy to pay me for not selling pork.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: Euphem
Like you said, you should never go out of your way to punish someone for their personal choices, especially if they aren't harming you in any way.


So... the baker should not go out of his way to punish the gay couple for their personal choices, especially since they weren't harming the baker in any way... Is that what you're saying?


Gay people should be happy at how far we have come with gay rights, and try not to push people to far.


Yeah... Pushing for SOME rights should satisfy them. They shouldn't push for all the way to equality.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

The baker is not denying service to anyone, he said he would make anything else for the customer. Also this isn't a life and death situation and surgeons decide on their own if they want to do certain procedures like abortions. No you don't get to decide who the public is, but the customer doesn't have the right to make people go against their beliefs. Now this guy may be a a## I don't know, But the government shouldn't be telling people what to buy or forcing this baker to make a cake.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: yeahright
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm going to open a barbecue joint that only serves gay Asian Muslim vegetarians. Then I'm applying for a government subsidy to pay me for not selling pork.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


Sounds about right for our country these days.

Bet you can get some great lobbying groups to help you with that as well.




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