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Two Children, On Their Way to Get Ice Cream, Stabbed in Elevator in NYC

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posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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If law enforcement worked properly those children would be able to go buy an ice cream without any need of a body guard!

Law enforcement has nothing to do with protecting citizens, its much more about enforcing statutes that bring in the money!


While I agree with you to a certain extent, law enforcement will always be able to be subverted or avoided. It is virtually impossible to have a police officer on every corner, and these kids were in a building, which is even more impossible to properly monitor with law enforcement. It is extremely difficult to prevent a crime like this. If someone has the intent then there is little one can do to stop them, because forewarning is rarely available to law enforcement.

I talked to some cops when I was in Manhattan a few years ago, and they seemed like pretty cool guys. It was not what I was expecting to be honest, but I have never lived there either. And then I got lost and stopped a cop to ask directions from him and he was very cool and helpful. Relatively courteous as well. So there will always be bad cops, but there will always be good ones as well. I guess it just depends.

A guy like this does not seem to have a logical motive for committing the crime, which suggests to me some psychological issue. I think in most instances of violent crimes there is some underlying psychological issue. I don't think people realize just how balanced the human brain needs to be to function normally. There are so many varying interactions, chemical interactions I mean, that determine a person's thought processes. Of course we cannot say the person is not accountable for their crimes, but in a sense they truly aren't responsible. We cannot just let them go however.




posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: centhwevir1979
Just further proof that you should never send your children anyplace unattended. 6 and 7 going out alone in New York to buy ice cream? Definitely requires a chaperone.

And thats proof that something is very wrong with law enforcement!

If law enforcement worked properly those children would be able to go buy an ice cream without any need of a body guard!

Law enforcement has nothing to do with protecting citizens, its much more about enforcing statutes that bring in the money!

You're right!
All elevators should come equipped with a police officer. So should EVERY street corner; every grocery store and parking lot; every school classroom, and every store in every shopping center!
Every bank should have at least one for every teller!
It's obvious that we need more law enforcement officers to control people and keep us safe- not stricter laws to keep criminal people out of society!


My point, and I suspect you already know, was that if the cops spent more time chasing bad guys, rather than having thousands of them PER DAY standing on the road side pointing speed camera's at motorists, then maybe more of the bad guys would be caught, and hence our children wouldn't need body guards when they want to go buy an ice cream!

When I was a kid children didn't need to fear going out on their own! The reason being that cops caught the bad guys and locked them away. Nowadays they chase speeding tickets!
A couple of years ago (in the UK) a cop publicly said "We are forced to chase tickets, we have a quota we must reach each month". That right there is the problem!
edit on 3-6-2014 by VoidHawk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: JiggyPotamus


If law enforcement worked properly those children would be able to go buy an ice cream without any need of a body guard!

Law enforcement has nothing to do with protecting citizens, its much more about enforcing statutes that bring in the money!


While I agree with you to a certain extent, law enforcement will always be able to be subverted or avoided. It is virtually impossible to have a police officer on every corner, and these kids were in a building, which is even more impossible to properly monitor with law enforcement.


Like the other poster, you misunderstood my point, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. See my post above.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: kosmicjack

And to combat it, we need more support for mental health services.

Between this story, the Elliot Rodger shooting, and all other crimes past, there is no doubt that we need better access to counseling or other types of psychotherapy, but most people would rather have the ill locked up again in institutions. A little pill is not a cure all, like weare lead to believe.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: lovebeck

Oh Good... a debate on knife control and an attempt to outlaw it. No person in their right mind needs a knife that is 3 inches long.

/end sarcasm...

Sad story...

@voidhawk -
A person cannot be charged with a crime until one is committed. It is not the role of law enforcement to protect the individual, but society as a whole.

Law Enforcement does not make the laws.
law Enforcement does not determine guilt or innocence.
Law Enforcement does not determine fine amounts.

Stop blaming law enforcement and take your elected representatives to task for creating the supposed money stream people claim but can never support.





posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra


A person cannot be charged with a crime until one is committed. It is not the role of law enforcement to protect the individual, but society as a whole.

If the thousands of leo's who spend their day chasing tickets, were to spend their day chasing bad guys, then they would be protecting the individual, and I'd guess that is what most people expect them to be doing?



originally posted by: Xcathdra
Law Enforcement does not make the laws.
law Enforcement does not determine guilt or innocence.
Law Enforcement does not determine fine amounts.


"Law Enforcement does not make the laws."
No, but its supposed to use them to put the bad guys where they belong.

"law Enforcement does not determine guilt or innocence."
Tell that to all the innocent people that are either shot or beaten half to death.

"Law Enforcement does not determine fine amounts."
Nope, but thousands of them spend their days collecting those fines!


originally posted by: Xcathdra
Stop blaming law enforcement and take your elected representatives to task for creating the supposed money stream people claim but can never support.


Are you suggesting these "money streams" do not exist?



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Actually according to Iraq body count GB didnt have 1 million dead iraqis. that number comes from a poll that was debunked a few times by a british person. the official count was around 400,000 dead from BOTH SIDES. As in COllatorral from US forces and intentional by insurgents/jihadist. The Iraqis themselves counted the numbers with official records.

Also... If these Christians in name alone paid attention they are not Required to keep the sabbath. That is for the HEBREWS.

Mos t of those decisions were made (in th eUS decisions) made by a secular government decision not a religious one.
People need to realize how to seperate this. Yeah its a mostly christian nation,but its not a factor in decisions for the rest of the governments decisions that are secular(for the most part)



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: lovebeck

It's crimes like these that make subjecting murderers to torture and death acceptable. The world is better off with out monsters like this! The last thing I want is my tax dollars to go toward feeding and sheltering this b@stard!

edit on 3-6-2014 by WeRpeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: lovebeck

It's crimes like these that make subjecting murderers to torture and death acceptable. The world is better off with out monsters like this! The last thing I want is my tax dollars to go toward feeding and sheltering this b@stard!

While I agree the world is better of without such monsters, I disagree when it comes to death sentences, quite simply because too many innocent people have been put to death by mistake!
Also, while that guy is a monster, its possible that he's got a family and a young child, and that child knows nothing of the monstrous side of his father. In that situation, by putting his father to death, we are exposing his child to the same monstrous behavior as he has done to the families of his victims.
Just imagine a ten year old child being told that Daddy is going to be killed today!

He's a monster, that doesn't mean we too should behave the same way.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: lovebeck

maybe it's in poor taste, but....

junk-food will kill ya'..

i've always firmly believed that both ice cream, and new york city are bad for one's health...

is it too early to say they'll try the "black rage" defense again, at his trial?

on the real though, this dude's an asshole, and i hope they catch him, and that he "falls" into the cruiser a few times...or maybe he'll "resist", and that'll save the taxpayers some money...
edit on 6-3-2014 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 09:34 PM
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The kid who died was the cousin of NBA basketball player Taj Gibson of the Chicago Bulls. Police have also released a sketch of the suspect.

www.prosportsdaily.com...




posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: lovebeck

It's crimes like these that make subjecting murderers to torture and death acceptable. The world is better off with out monsters like this! The last thing I want is my tax dollars to go toward feeding and sheltering this b@stard!

While I agree the world is better of without such monsters, I disagree when it comes to death sentences, quite simply because too many innocent people have been put to death by mistake!
Also, while that guy is a monster, its possible that he's got a family and a young child, and that child knows nothing of the monstrous side of his father. In that situation, by putting his father to death, we are exposing his child to the same monstrous behavior as he has done to the families of his victims.
Just imagine a ten year old child being told that Daddy is going to be killed today!

He's a monster, that doesn't mean we too should behave the same way.



you can't be serious, can you?

he's might have a family!?

how about telling his kid, "your daddy stabbed and killed a child your age, for nothing and he will have to die for doing that"

you know, like put some perspective on it.

edit on 30301361130pm2014 by tsingtao because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: VoidHawk

We can drive around all we want looking for "bad guys" but the fact remains we cannot take action unless a crime occurs.

As for the money stream -
Yes there is one there - The flaw is in blaming law enforcement and accusing them of generating funds. The statutes were designed by the legislature and penalties are set by the same (jail time / fines / community service etc.

There are a lot of states, mine included, that prohibits a Police Department from receiving funds from officer actions and placing those funds back into the Police agency. Other laws restrict the flow back to police departments anywhere from 1% to 40% of their budget.

The sheriffs department in my state can write all the citations they want however they receive only a few dollars (like 1 to 2 dollars) of the fine going back to the Sheriffs department. To clear up possible confusion on this part -

A sheriffs Office is its own entity.
A municipal agency is a part of the city itself.

Hence the goofy contradiction in that area.

Anyways - llong story short people want to blame law enforcement for being a revenue stream when in fact Law Enforcement has nothing to do with that area at all.

How can I support that statement? The final determination on whether a person is charged or the case is dismissed is up to the prosecuting Attorney.

I think the argument about revenue stream is valid but only if its applied to the judicial and not the executive. As an example The Prosecuting attorney gets 10 cases. The PA reviews those cases to determine if there is enough evidence to support the charge. Of those cases that do they look to see how solid the investigation is.

Since most PA's are elected positions one can argue that they selectively prosecute cases based on what is winnable and what is not. To bring it home the PA essentially can guarantee a revenue stream as a side effect of selective prosecution.

I have no issues holding people accountable. What I do have issues with is when law enforcement is blamed for something we cannot control.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: VoidHawk

Police worked very well for Oscar Grant at Fruitvale Station in Oakland now didn't it.
Police in NYC worked very well for Amadio Diallou, now didnt it?

Stop and Frisk, ain't it a blip!



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: ArchPlayer

Please research all the info for the Oscar Grant issue. The officer was charged and tried using the same law used for everyone else. The jury were the ones who made the decision on his guilt and di so after asking the judge questions about lesser chargers.

The defense successfully had one of the higher charges dismissed on lack of evidence. His sentence was also the exact same as anyone else who was sentenced under that statute.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Anyways - llong story short people want to blame law enforcement for being a revenue stream when in fact Law Enforcement has nothing to do with that area at all.


the money may not go back to the departement but the money does go somewhere....so there is a rather large money stream ending up in someone or some entity's pocket....

you cannot deflect the fact LEO's are generating masses of revenue



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

There is nothing to deflect because the assertion is based on flawed logic of the facts.

The courts are the ones responsible for punishment, including fines - not law enforcement.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 02:48 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra
Regardless of the outcome, a policeman opens fire on a handcuffed assailant targeted for racial profiling, and kills him.
Okay, lets take it out of race for a moment. Frank Serpico spent a hell of a lot of time on the NYPD, and a hell of a lot of time trying to convince superiors of corruption within the ranks TO NO AVAIL; he was ultimately set up and shot by a group of his cop peers and left for dead. He testified to the corruption and overall outlaw mentality of the NYPD against its citizens and candidly said the review board for the NYPD investigations is NYPD itself, it is illegal for outside agencies to INVESTIGATE THEIR WRONGDOINGS. Now, he left, went to the Neatherlands, that was the 70s. NYPD was pissed he got a book, movie, and lecture circuit deal especially in universities, and they pressured the Neatherlands to expel him, something Serpico talks very candidly about.

Point is, NYPD cops, like most cops in America, act like Bronson in Death Wish.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:20 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

There is nothing to deflect because the assertion is based on flawed logic of the facts.

The courts are the ones responsible for punishment, including fines - not law enforcement.






hmmm so what is the job for police ?...they do not practice crime prevention,they do not have the best interests of the public at heart...they do what exactly other than hand out fines to the public...here is an article on issuing fines for jaywalkers ...IMO these criminals need to be punished as jaywalking is clearly a serious crime..

www.dailytelegraph.com.au...


while we are on the subject of raising revenue how about this $
79.1 million dollars in the year 2013 from a fixed camera...where does that money go?certainly not to make the roads safer....

anyway if the police were not busy raising this revenue there would be many less crimes as criminals would be worried about getting caught as the police would be going out catching criminals instead of worrying about their daily quotas...it is my belief these kind of crimes happen more often because the priorities of the boys in the blue are backwards



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Law Enforcement has nothing to do with fines.




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