It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

An Anasazi Abduction Story? Additional Petroglyphs Point to A Very Strange Happening

page: 3
36
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 03:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
That's very fascinating! There has been people suggesting that the Maya traveled here to obtain pigments for Maya Blue paint, as far north as Georgia in fact. I also heard of a lake or pond where layers of Maya Blue pigment was found, as if rituals and celebrations were being held.....Not unlike those at Chaco Canyon I suppose. It's interesting when climbing up to see New Alto and Pueblo Alto there is a mound adjacent not yet excavated with poetry shards scattered about. In fact, Peñasco Blanco isn't fully excavated yet and as I walked about I found several pottery shards. I just took a picture and placed them on rocks for others to admire.


There are a lot of sites out there that haven't been found or worked. It's actually pretty troublesome. I know that one family who owns the property filled with potsherds actually has significant troubles with looters coming onto the property. They try to defend it as best as they can and basically scare them off with guns. Archaeology is a pretty slow practice out there because it has to go through so much bureaucracy. The tribes have to authorize the digs and they don't always allow it because they've been so frequently disrespected and burned. My guess is that there are far more sites than can be imagined just waiting to be excavated. It's really our own faults for this as what we do with these sites, especially in regards to human remains, is viewed as appalling by the tribes. You don't mess with the dead. Period.


Here is the mound yet to be worked, I wonder what lies beneath:



Pottery shards at Peñasco Blanco:




It's pretty breathtaking to be walking along and spotting pieces just lying around on the ground like that, isn't it? It's like walking across undiscovered history with a surprise treasure underfoot, just scattered about. I've seen some really beautiful potsherds just lying under the sun. I have some pictures as well but they're on a disc and god knows which one, lol.


I wonder just how involved the trade system was and if there are clear evidences in trade with the Maya. Further, did the "Anasazi" trade for lumber to build their structures or did they really travel 100 miles and bring back the lumber themselves.


I suspect that the trade system was pretty significant, especially with that flute player showing up in Alberta. The problem is proving that the tribes were actually engaging in trade with each other and not just going up to various places to harvest the stuffs themselves. To me, it seems more likely that someone from the area or who traveled around would bring the desired item to the tribe and not the tribe somehow knowing that a certain kind of timber existed 100 miles away. However, that's just supposition and archaeology needs evidence to be absolutely or almost absolutely certain. If we just let our fantasies go with history, how much could we risk getting wrong?



Now though its not the same it's interesting to note how sometimes reuniting isn't always the best. I guess its best to leave well enough alone......curious.


Yep. Even though there was a lot of anger involved with the story of the split between the Northern and Southern Diné, that tale has that sense, too. The Northern Diné were found to be doing well and thriving where they were. If the Northern Diné were that Canadian group of Na-Dene, I can see why they would want to stay. Lush terrain v. desert--tough call! Not really, lol.



I couldn't agree more! There is something here that doesn't seem to fit, at least not with official or "historical" references granted even they don't claim to fully know either. I am sure this is one of those times that a secret society (tribal elders) may have some clue. What is your take on Lumeria? Do you think it's possible the Native culture could have sprung from that Legend? Than became scattered across the Americas when their Archipelago sank under the ocean?


I think that part of that "not seeming to fit is a mixture of prejudice, politics and just the way history is. Like I said before, history requires evidence so that there can be certainty of the validity of the given premise. We haven't been too kind or respectful of the tribes and that poses some problems. There's also been some question about the arrival time of the various tribes and accusations of hiding data (pre-Clovis). If people want to view the tribes as having beaten European settlers by just a few thousand years and being immigrants themselves, then what if the tribes were here for tens of thousands of years? That would further embed the tribes as being the rightful owners of the land. It's a political mess really.

As far as Lemuria goes, I don't know. The Diné are one of those cultures that traveled from world to world. The world before this one was destroyed by flood. The story goes that Coyote, an avid gambler for skins, was gambling with Water Monster and won. As he left Water Monster's home, he discovered that Water Monster's babies were still tucked inside the skin. Pleased with himself, he kept quiet and kept the babies. However, Water Monster realized its loss and grew angry, searching for its babies, and flooding all the lands in the process. The Diné along with Coyote climbed higher and higher up into the mountains but the waters kept rising. They then escaped the world by climbing a reed that stretched up to a hole in the sky. That is how they arrived in the Glittering World (this world). After they stepped out into the Glittering World, they heard the rushing of the water and saw it climbing up the reed. Water Monster was still searching for its babies and was threatening to flood this new world. Coyote quickly dropped the babies into the water and the waters stopped rising. That is the Diné flood myth as I recall it. Hopefully, I didn't screw it up too much.


I seen the Kokopelli alive and well in Pueblo, Co. also.
Thanks for your awesome contribution to this thread!


Yep, I believe Kokopelli "got around" both literally and figuratively--fertility god and all. He must've been quite the "hottie". You're welcome.
Like I said, I appreciate the flexing of this memory muscle as it just doesn't get flexed enough and it's really very important to keep it sharp for my daughter's sake. I was allowed to take her away and raise her because her family knew that I would teach her the stories and ways of her culture well. I have really no legal right of custody for her despite being her biological mother. The courts almost always grant custody to the tribe. I'm keeping that promise.




posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 01:30 AM
link   
I believe that the 'spaceship' is part of the real mural if the deer like creature on the right side is also genuine, either way it is carved the same way.

I have to admit though before I read your description as 'spaceship' I actually thought Ray Gun.

It could also be fire with smoke blowing east.

Interesting nevertheless. I'd never heard about any of this.

The demon like entities are real good, you can feel the fear in the picture.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 10:04 AM
link   

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
That's very fascinating! There has been people suggesting that the Maya traveled here to obtain pigments for Maya Blue paint, as far north as Georgia in fact. I also heard of a lake or pond where layers of Maya Blue pigment was found, as if rituals and celebrations were being held.....Not unlike those at Chaco Canyon I suppose. It's interesting when climbing up to see New Alto and Pueblo Alto there is a mound adjacent not yet excavated with poetry shards scattered about. In fact, Peñasco Blanco isn't fully excavated yet and as I walked about I found several pottery shards. I just took a picture and placed them on rocks for others to admire.



Yep. Even though there was a lot of anger involved with the story of the split between the Northern and Southern Diné, that tale has that sense, too. The Northern Diné were found to be doing well and thriving where they were. If the Northern Diné were that Canadian group of Na-Dene, I can see why they would want to stay. Lush terrain v. desert--tough call! Not really, lol.



I couldn't agree more! There is something here that doesn't seem to fit, at least not with official or "historical" references granted even they don't claim to fully know either. I am sure this is one of those times that a secret society (tribal elders) may have some clue. What is your take on Lumeria? Do you think it's possible the Native culture could have sprung from that Legend? Than became scattered across the Americas when their Archipelago sank under the ocean?


As far as Lemuria goes, I don't know. The Diné are one of those cultures that traveled from world to world. The world before this one was destroyed by flood. The story goes that Coyote, an avid gambler for skins, was gambling with Water Monster and won. As he left Water Monster's home, he discovered that Water Monster's babies were still tucked inside the skin. Pleased with himself, he kept quiet and kept the babies. However, Water Monster realized its loss and grew angry, searching for its babies, and flooding all the lands in the process. The Diné along with Coyote climbed higher and higher up into the mountains but the waters kept rising. They then escaped the world by climbing a reed that stretched up to a hole in the sky. That is how they arrived in the Glittering World (this world). After they stepped out into the Glittering World, they heard the rushing of the water and saw it climbing up the reed. Water Monster was still searching for its babies and was threatening to flood this new world. Coyote quickly dropped the babies into the water and the waters stopped rising. That is the Diné flood myth as I recall it. Hopefully, I didn't screw it up too much.


What I found most interesting about the Flood Story you just shared and the Diné creation story is the first world:




According to the Navajo creation story, the first world was small and pitch black. There were four seas and in the middle an island with a single pine tree existed. Ants, dragonflies, locusts and beetles lived there and made up the Air-Spirit People of the first world. Each of the four seas was ruled by one supernatural being, the Big Water Creature, the Blue Heron, the Frog and White Thunder. Above the sea there was a a black cloud, a white cloud, a blue cloud and a yellow cloud. The female spirit of life lived in the black cloud while the male spirit of dawn lived in the white.


Kind of like being on one of many islands forming an archipelago? A bit of a stretch but seeing how all tribes have similar structure, including Hawaii and stretch as far north as Canada and Alaska, yet separated by not only vast space but apparently time as well. Like a great flood washed away there past and separated the many great tribes of the archipelago known as Lumeria. Stretching across the Pacific Ocean from Hawaii all the way North. When the flood occurred and wiped out the Continent of Lumeria they fled to the nearest land mass North America, scattered, lost and separated by new land with mountains and valleys. A "New" world unknown and uninhibited.

I love this stuff!



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 02:21 PM
link   
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Yeah, the worlds within the Diné Bahane' are really fascinating. Probably the best version of it online is this one:

drarchaeology.com...

It is in the third world that the Diné meet the Pueblo and that is the world that floods. The Pueblo came with them to this world. Is the entire thing adopted from the Pueblo or did they really migrate together? That's problematic as the Pueblo, archaeologically speaking, were in the SW long before the Diné arrived so how could they arrive together? Or, because the Diné were nomadic hunter-gatherers, did they just leave less of an archaeological trace? It's odd. The worlds in the Diné creation myth are close matches with Pueblo versions. The Hopi version says that they traveled by boats.

The names of the Diné in this version are in Navajo so, "Etsay-hashkeh" in the third world portion would be what we know as Coyote. It's really very complex. The creation myths do vary based on translation. For instance, sometimes they travel by reed and in other versions, by bamboo. This version is the most interesting to me as it does have some rather curious descriptions. Yoh-lachee is a "bad mountain, which gives people sores on their bodies"--is that a volcano? It's described as being red--is that lava?

Here's the Hopi creation myth for comparison. The tales are very close in some regards. www.gly.uga.edu...

Another thing of interest on this line is the actual genetics of the tribes in the SW ( and BFFTexan--you might be interested in this because they discuss the corn bit). When they discuss the Navajo and Apache, the authors remark that both tribes are genetically different from the Northern Athabaskan tribes and from each other. They explain this by having a "founder effect" or bottleneck in the population. Basically, the number of arriving Navajo and Apache into the area was very small and each group's genetic makeup was heavily influenced by admixture with their neighboring tribes. That could also be a reason why the date for the groups' arrival is later than the Pueblos--low numbers could have simply made it that finding an earlier site would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

deepblue.lib.umich.edu...



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 11:14 AM
link   
Per your request, some obsrvations and comments.


I appreciated your adding the map, by the way. Most folks don't think to set up context like that. I have a few links that you will find interesting if you haven't seen these before:

Rock Art Research group page on styles

Arizona archaeological society

New Mexico Rock Art Council

Good one on the Navajo (note "Shield Warrior")

And DS Whitley is a name to consider when looking at books or articles (citations here) I don't entirely agree with some of his cognitive neuroscience ideas but he's well cited.

PDF (part of a book) introducing styles. Chaco Canyon is mentioned


There are others, but you might find those of interest.


originally posted by: Rosinitiate
So to preface, I noticed while looking through these threads and others, as well as google images of "Anasazi Aliens", I was surprised that most of the curious petroglyphs I found at Chaco Canyon didn't really appear on the web, because of this, I felt it prudent to share.


Those of us who love rock art appreciate that!



As I began traveling from site to site and viewing the petroglyphs scattered throughout the sites I noticed a common theme, particularly an image of a man holding a spiral shield with various animals around him. After only being there a few hours I recognized most animals as those indigenous to the area. So I presume it is someones ego promoting their achievements to others in hunting, or more plausible, a communication to others on what game is good for hunting in the area.


This is possibly "Shield Warrior." However, each panel is a mix of styles and I'm more up to date on the styles of the Lower Pecos in Texas than anywhere else.




Lets start at Campfire Circle, here we have a petroglyph panel that appears as a mural or a story. first let me show you this little gem within the mural:




No clue on this one. However, I think that it's something that has been defaced in more ancient times. Note that the two "C-shaped" sections to the left look newer than the C and blob to the right, and that the blob is crudely defined. I think they erased a figure.

I count four distinct styles on the panel, including a fairly late (1400's) depiction of a Spaniard.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 11:34 AM
link   
I do recognize some of these things, however...


originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Here we see yet another grouping of strange glyphs:




It bears a strong resemblance to the spirit "Lizard", who plays the flute to tell Coyote about the doings of people in the world in Chumash and other traditions. Things that are upside down, however, are interpreted as "ghost" or "dead" for most types of rock art.




BTW, love the Supernova pictograph -- other cultures including the Chumash have similar recordings.



And here I put them together and colored them in:




Good job of identifying the elements, BTW! There are three (and possibly more) different artists and styles on that panel. What's interesting and amusing is that you actually correctly colored the different styles. The yellow-outline (shamans) are the oldest work and are a different style than the 'woman-and-man' green ones. The thing between the legs of the one figure is male genitalia. This is a VERY common way of representing men in rock art in North America (and across the world.)

The "man holding the snake" is actually a woman with three children. I'm not as familiar with the local legends, so can't identify her...but this part of the panel and the man next to her are younger than the images on their right and on their left.

So, the question we're left with in rock art is: are subsequent generations "over-tagging" images (like gang sign, where one incorporates or erases another group's art), are they "adding to the dialogue" later, or are they simply ignoring the other signs and adding their own (think of modern graffiti... nobody considers where they're putting their writing in relation to where other writing is... it's just "find a space that you like and make it yours.")




top topics
 
36
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join