Former FDNY Firefighter, Rudy Dent: "Incontrovertible fact (WTC) buildings were brought down."

Good interview with Mr. Dent.

He needs to study the case for nuclear, because that is the only theory that reconciles all the observed facts.

a reply to: wmd_2008

but your arrogance seems 100% genuine!

that is the only thing you got right ...and that is the thing that erks you the most, huh...lol!

why, cause there is NOTHING you nor anyone can offer to show otherwise......the reason you can't respond with actual science and facts...the reason you attack my person rather than the information contained.

don't you wish you could be arrogant???

ya still can.....being a 'truther' means asking questions and DEMANDING the supporting evidence of the already in-place claims pushed as truth...and KNOWING that science DID NOT magically change on 9-11 and have the BALLS to state it.

come into the light, get out of the dark........

originally posted by: hgfbob
a reply to: wmd_2008

but your arrogance seems 100% genuine!

that is the only thing you got right ...and that is the thing that erks you the most, huh...lol!

why, cause there is NOTHING you nor anyone can offer to show otherwise......the reason you can't respond with actual science and facts...the reason you attack my person rather than the information contained.

don't you wish you could be arrogant???

ya still can.....being a 'truther' means asking questions and DEMANDING the supporting evidence of the already in-place claims pushed as truth...and KNOWING that science DID NOT magically change on 9-11 and have the BALLS to state it.

come into the light, get out of the dark........

Your the one that replies to every post like a PETULANT child and in case you don't know the meaning

petulant - childishly sulky or bad-tempered:

As you don't seem to understand these structures.

For example a previous comment by YOU.

originally posted by: hgfbob

and....no floors within the core to drop....just 47 continuous, vertical support box columns with an abundance of cross, lateral, and diagonal bracing throughout....

So NO floors in the core area how to people get from the lifts to the office or from the office to the toilets etc which are WITHIN the core area did they levitate or possibly just talk hot air a float across!!!!

I can give you a link to the DRAWINGS just to show how WRONG YOU are

Every reply you have given has been IGNORANT,ARROGANT or INSULTING I suggest you read this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Others that haven't have been banned!!!

a reply to: hgfbob

No being a "Truther" means you joined a group and are engaging in group think.
It's a label, nothing more, nothing less.
It does not bestow magical properties on someone just because they assume it.

a reply to: wmd_2008

So NO floors in the core area

sorry duhbunker, NO floors in which to act upon the core columns......Try looking at the WTC blueprints.

as a builder for 30 years doing both stick and steel around New England, I have a little more insight than most duhbunkers.....so how bout you, right now, tell me where you think they are????

NO floor assemblies.
the core consists of elevators, stairways and landings....ALL of which ALL go in between the CONTINUOUS load bearing vertical support.....steel touching steel, end to end from the hat truss to the bedrock...

Every reply you have given has been IGNORANT,ARROGANT or INSULTING

uhm.....try every reply given you has been DIRECT, to the POINT, and showing duhbunkers how FOOLISH they are...[and enjoying that part].

I pose a question then provide the reasons why.....and you can not deal with anyone SHOWING the OS for the complete BS story it is.

hence.....attack the person posting.....ignore the material being posted.

any arrogance I show stems from the knowledge I have attained from years of searching....

I do not quote duhbunker sites, Alex Jones nor A&E 9-11truth...

I quote the only scientific investigation in this Country bestowed by an act of Congress to find out how and why three buildings fell on 9-11, the 2005 NIST.....taught science...and the authors of the official claims, 2008 NIST.....that is it.

this is what I post to you, that YOU call "IGNORANT,ARROGANT and INSULTING"....

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

being a "Truther" means you joined a group

called humanity.

is that a problem?

It does not bestow magical properties on someone just because they assume it

oh yes it does......wicked magical!

since the Dictum of both Law and Debate is those whom assert must prove....

I get to stand before everyone, and demand supporting evidence of what they spew as truth.....and I don't have to supply one damn thing.

first come the asserted official claims pushed as truth....now am demanding it proved....


I'm sorry....but what was the point of your reply?

originally posted by: hgfbob
called humanity.

is that a problem?

No, you were talking about being a "truther" remember?
It's just up there.
You wrote it right?
And actually, yes, mankind's capacity to let labels that are meant to describe them, define them.
Is VERY annoying.
It leads to the very same us versus them BS that we see happening, well, in too many damn things.
Especially in this situation.
It's continuing proof that we have yet to completely evolve beyond tribalism.

oh yes it does......wicked magical!

since the Dictum of both Law and Debate is those whom assert must prove....

I get to stand before everyone, and demand supporting evidence of what they spew as truth.....and I don't have to supply one damn thing.

first come the asserted official claims pushed as truth....now am demanding it proved....

And are not listening to the answers.
Preferring to rant about how great you think your particular label makes you.

There's a word for what you are spewing.
Rhetoric.
To see just how formulaic it is one need to only look at how much it's like what all the other "truthers" spew.
"Us! YAY! Them! BOOOOO!!!!" in essence.

If you wanted meaningful information exchange with those who you disagree you would not be engaging in this silliness.
You want to throw rocks, of rhetoric, not understand why your opponents say what they do.
You've already decided that.
And there is no convincing you otherwise.

I'm sorry....but what was the point of your reply?

hEh.
Some investigator you're turning out to be.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

No, you were talking about being a "truther" remember?

no, I am discussing 9-11....YOU are attempting to misdirect.

And are not listening to the answers.

lmao.....really....no one answers, they all talk like you do here.......basically just attacking the messenger,not the message....hows that workin out for ya?

You want to throw rocks, of rhetoric, not understand why your opponents say what they do.

the same reasoning YOU attempt to do here huh...lol....you want to discredit what I post, then take what I post and dissect that?..WOW!!!!!...what a concept huh....taking what I actually post and ripping it apart in front of me for all to see.....yet, we don't see that, from ANYONE...do we.

all the other "truthers" spew.

again for all the brain dead duhbunkers whom can't read....'truthers 'have no claims. they ask questions and DEMAND the supporting evidence of the already in-place claims pushed as truth.

[Go open your "Roberts Rules of Order"]......the dictum of BOTH Law and Debate is Those whom assert must prove....FIRST come the asserted official claims....now I am asking/DEMANDING you to prove them.


and YOU said YOU are a 'truther'?.....I could tell from your first post you are not.

If you wanted meaningful information exchange with those who you disagree you would not be engaging in this silliness.

I'm not here for the exchanging of ideas with what I post, I show the OS to be the BS it is...and you can not argue it, that is why you ignore it completely and focus the attack to me....the messenger.

so....WHO is the one whom replied to me, NOT mentioning ONE item I discuss???


...you.


who is the one here desperately attacking, and falling flat....you.....ya also sound like you are employing duhbunker tactic #5...

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks”, “right-wing”, “liberal”, “left-wing”, “terrorists”, “conspiracy buffs”, “radicals”, “militia”, “racists”, “religious fanatics”, “sexual deviates”, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Some investigator you're turning out to be.

pretty damn good since YOU can NOT bring up one single point I reference to show it wrong and invalid.

sorry duhbunker, these pathetic tactics do not work on me.

ATTENTION.. THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

We all need to take a breath and cool down a bit please.

When signing up to be a member on ATS you had to agree to adhere to "ALL" the Terms and Conditions (T&C's) of our website.

That means you agreed to discuss topics without any finger-pointing, name-calling, bad-mouthing, and/or spewing off how one is or isn't ignorant. If you can not do that then I'm going to recommend that this thread be closed, and that would be sad as I'm quite interested in hearing what everyone has to say on this topic. But we have to consider what's best for the membership of ATS, so please, relax, count to ten, then if you can respond in a 'diplomatic way', then please do so. If you can not do so, well then thank you for stopping by and please move to another thread that has caught your interest.

If you can not get past the "Someone is stupid on the internet because they don't agree with me" mindset, then you need to take a sabbatical.... If you can not show in a calm fashion why your thoughts and theories are correct, then you need to take a rest... If you believe your above the T&C's, then you are so sadly mistaken that you should simply do everyone a great favor and not let the door hit you as your leaving...

With that said, I hope we can now continue forward in a positive manner on this topic..


Thank You,
Johnny Anonymous (Moderator)

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

You've already decided that.
And there is no convincing you otherwise.

then please take what I post and use it against me.......when are you guys gonna do that????
attacking me does not discredit what I post...it gives a telltale sign as to why you are here though.

here is something easy from FDNY transcripts given by the FDNY in the following months after 9-11....

LIEUTENANT PATRICK SCARINGELLO EMS
WTC2
"I heard the explosion from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean".

FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BOERI WTC2
"We had our backs to the tower and under that pedestrian bridge walking south, myself, Eddie Kennedy and the officer, when you heard the crackling. You looked up and you saw the one floor explode on itself and the top start to slide."

FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM REYNOLDS
WTC2-
"I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down"

hundreds of these same descriptions.....and they were all told the sound they hear, is just the towers collapsing...but how can that be when that does not occur till almost 3 to 4 seconds AFTER they hear the noise/EXPLOSION that gets their attention to look up to SEE the building START TO MOVE.

is this ANOTHER brand new never before seen physics phenomenon as the collapse of 7 is claimed to be???

before and after 9-11, sound is SLOWER than light, yet, for some reason, it's reversed only on 9-11. where sound is magically faster than light.....how else can they HEAR the sound/EXPLOSION, to then look up to SEE the building START to collapse before it makes the noise that gets their attention to look up......


tell me all about the abundance of NEW science at work only on 9-11.....

Wow, after taking some time off, it is funny and sad to see the same old fights and the same old debunked nonsense being brought up time and again as if it is "NEW and IMPROVED!"

Deny ignorance folks.

Is there anything new that has been brought up by the Truth Movement at all in the last 10 years? Im still seeing pyroclastic flows, thermites, secret silent bombs, complete inattention to basic facts about the WTCs, the missing trillions.......... wow. Stunning. I would have thought by now this garbage wold have been cleared and something new came up.

a reply to: GenRadek

anything new that has been brought up by the Truth Movement

nope.....just the same of asking questions and demanding the proof of the official claims pushed as truth.

so I take it by this post you have NO idea why light traveled faster than sound only on 9-11 to have the sounds/EXPLOSIONS heard by FDNY to be just the collapsing building as they were told it was.


Captain Karin Deshore -sees and hear's explosions minutes before the building collapsed-

"Somewhere around the middle of the Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash, then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger going both up and down and then all around the building. I went inside and told everybody that the other building or there was as explosion occurring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here.

a reply to: hgfbob

And every single one has been explained, debunked, or dismissed as nonsense, lies, misinformation, stupidity, ignorance, etc.

What she was describing was the initial interior collapses inside the North Tower. She is obviously mistaken as every video that was looking directly at the WTCs that day, show nothing of the sort happening anywhere in the middle of the North Tower. A helicopter pilot mentioned seeing interior floors at the impact sites collapsing, prior to full collapse. But no demolitions or detonations anywhere in the building. The explosions she is mentioning is more likely the explosions heard at the ground zero of the first collapse, where cars, trucks, fire trucks, ambulances, police vehicles, etc were exploding from fires/being crushed/impacted by debris, as well as ammunition cooking off in the debris pile.

There were signs of internal collapse. This would explain why fires were seen to come out more and more smoke appeared, plus the popping and explosion-like sounds. Remember, not all explosion sounds are caused by explosions. Would you be able to tell the difference between steel columns, supports, beams, etc snapping and breaking from say explosive charges?

Id read up on the NYPD reports here in regards to the North Tower prior to its demise.

a reply to: GenRadek

lmao....SAME tactics on this reply too huh!!!!!!

And every single one has been explained, debunked, or dismissed as nonsense, lies, misinformation, stupidity, ignorance, etc.

to which YOU can not provide......ONLY tell us of it!!!!

when are one of you....'people'...gonna ACTUALLY do that?????

What she was describing was the initial interior collapses inside the North Tower.

for one, it's a "he"....and LMAO!!!.....WHAT .."interior" collapse of the towers???

there is NO collapse when the event is witnessed.
and we are talking about the MIDDLE of the building, that would mean that BELOW that, resistance let go for SOME reason or another......

so why don't YOU start by telling me how FIRE MIGHT have done this....

She is obviously mistaken as every video that was looking directly at the WTCs that day,

oh, you mean the live feed that was ALREADY set up for the major channels 2 MILES away.......how did that get done so fast???

no duhbunker, I'm talking about WITNESSED events, need a little MORE than YOU claiming..."she is wrong"....[shakes head in amazement].

There were signs of internal collapse. This would explain why fires were seen to come out more and more smoke appeared,

lol.....digging ourselves in DEEPER and DEEPER huh.....tell me of these "signs" you claim are there...tell me how the smoke and fire from an internal collapse two-thirds down from the damage, doesn't omit smoke or fire from WHERE you claim damage occurs...it somehow makes it's way back up to the top to come out the impact hole?????

plus the popping and explosion-like sounds. Remember,

yes, popping sound "looking like a belt with RED and ORANGE flashes going all AROUND and up and down the tower"...just as one will see with a 'CONTROLLED demo'...yet there is NO COLLAPSE......REMEMBER!.....

"I went inside and told everybody that the other building or there was as explosion occurring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here."

if there is a "collapse", the FIRST thing one does is to ENTER the collapse????

yup, nothing to see here....just a regular office fire....

Would you be able to tell the difference between steel columns, supports, beams, etc snapping and breaking from say explosive charges?

..uhm.....YEA!
me thinks anyone would.......which is why there are HUNDREDS of witnesses that think so.

Daniel Rivera Paramedic
-how did you know it was coming down?
-that noise it was a noise.
-What did you hear?
-It was a friggin noise. Do you ever see professional demolition where they set charges on certain floors, and then you hear "pop pop pop pop pop pop" I thought it was that, when I heard that friggin noise, that's when I saw the building coming down

a reply to: GenRadek

Not really, have things been explained. For the most part, that claim is made, but in most cases it is sophistry at best, cognitive dissonance and denial at worst.

Burning office furniture fires, the official explanation, do not come close to explaining what was observed at WTC. It is an impossible explanation.

As Mr. Dent pointed out, it is an impossible story, assuming the laws of physics still apply.

I just love how much eyewitness testimony is brought up.
Neuroscience tells us eyewitness testimony has problems.
But they're firemen!!!
They're still people.
And they could be lying.
And even if they are not:

Reconstructing Memories
The uncritical acceptance of eyewitness accounts may stem from a popular misconception of how memory works. Many people believe that human memory works like a video recorder: the mind records events and then, on cue, plays back an exact replica of them. On the contrary, psychologists have found that memories are reconstructed rather than played back each time we recall them. The act of remembering, says eminent memory researcher and psychologist Elizabeth F. Loftus of the University of California, Irvine, is “more akin to putting puzzle pieces together than retrieving a video recording.” Even questioning by a lawyer can alter the witness’s testimony because fragments of the memory may unknowingly be combined with information provided by the questioner, leading to inaccurate recall.

Scientific American: Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts

Need more?

TED Talk: Scott Fraser Why eyewitnesses get it wrong.


Even more?

A paper on the subejct:

The eyewitness literature often claims that emotional stress leads to an impairment in memory and, hence, that details of unpleasant emotional events are remembered less accurately than details of neutral or everyday events. A common assumption behind this view is that a decrease in available processing capacity occurs at states of high emotional arousal, which, therefore, leads to less efficient memory processing. The research reviewed here shows that this belief is overly simplistic. Current studies demonstrate striking interactions between type of event, type of detail information, time of test, and type of retrieval information. This article also reviews the literature on memory for stressful events with respect to 2 major theories: the Yerkes-Dodson law and J. A. Easterbrook's (1959) cue-utilization hypothesis. To account for the findings from real-life studies and laboratory studies, this article discusses the possibility that emotional events receive some preferential processing mediated by factors related to early perceptual processing and late conceptual processing. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

PsycNET: Emotional stress and eyewitness memory: A critical review.

And another:

The effects of stress on memory include interference with a person's capacity to encode memory and the ability to retrieve information.[1] During times of stress, the body reacts by secreting stress hormones into the bloodstream. Stress can cause acute and chronic changes in certain brain areas which can cause long-term damages.[2] Over-secretion of stress hormones most frequently affects memory negatively, but in a few cases can affect it positively. In particular, the hippocampus, prefrontal cortex and the amygdala are affected.[3][4] One class of stress hormone responsible for negatively affecting memory is the glucocorticoids (GCs), the most notable of which is cortisol.[4] Glucocorticoids facilitate and impair the actions of stress in the brain memory process.[5] Cortisol is a known biomarker for stress.[6] Under normal circumstances, the hippocampus regulates the production of cortisol through negative feedback because it has many receptors that are sensitive to these stress hormones. However, an excess of cortisol can impair the ability of the hippocampus to both encode and recall memories.[1] These stress hormones are also hindering the hippocampus from receiving enough energy by diverting glucose levels to surrounding muscles.[1]

Stress affects many memory functions and cognitive functioning of the brain.[7] There are different levels of stress and the high levels can be intrinsic or extrinsic. Intrinsic stress level is triggered by a cognitive challenge whereas extrinsic can be triggered by a condition not related to a cognitive task.[5] Intrinsic stress can be acutely and chronically experienced by a person.[5] The varying effects of stress on performance or stress hormones are often compared to or known as “inverted-u”[7] which induce areas in learning, memory and plasticity.[5] Chronic stress can affect the brain structure and cognition.

Studies considered the effects of stress on both intrinsic and extrinsic memory functions, using for both of them Pavlovian conditioning and spatial learning.[5] In regard to intrinsic memory functions, the study evaluated how stress affected memory functions that was triggered by a learning challenge. In regard to extrinsic stress, the study focused on stress that was not related to cognitive task but was elicited by other situations. The results determined that intrinsic stress was facilitated by memory consolidation process and extrinsic stress was determined to be heterogeneous in regard to memory consolidation.[clarification needed] Researchers found that high stress conditions were a good representative of the impact that extrinsic stress can cause on memory functioning.[5][clarification needed] It was also proven that extrinsic stress does have an impact on spatial learning whereas acute extrinsic stress does not.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, and did you know memories change when acessed?

A Northwestern University researcher has found that memory retrieval may be like the game of telephone.

Just as a whispered message changes with each retelling, memories can change when they are recalled multiple times, according to the study by Donna Bridge, a postdoctoral fellow at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. A press release summarizes the findings published in the journal Neuroscience.

“A memory is not simply an image produced by time traveling back to the original event—it can be an image that is somewhat distorted because of the prior times you remembered it,” Bridge said in the press release. “Your memory of an event can grow less precise even to the point of being totally false with each retrieval.”

Bridge says her findings have implications for eyewitness accounts in criminal trials. “Maybe a witness remembers something fairly accurately the first time because his memories aren’t that distorted,” she said. “After that it keeps going downhill.”

Test subjects in Bridge’s study were asked to recall the location of objects on a grid in three sessions on three consecutive days. On the second day, the subjects were shown a subset on the first day’s objects and asked to move them to their original locations. On day three, the test subjects showed greater recall of the objects they manipulated on day two. But when test subjects made a mistake on day two, they were more likely to repeat the mistake on day three by placing the object closer to the incorrect than the correct location.

The Neuroscience study used 12 subjects, but Bridge has repeated the results. “When someone tells me they are sure they remember exactly the way something happened, I just laugh,” Bridge said in the press release.

ABA Journal: Study Finds Memories Can Change with Each Recall; Researcher Sees Criminal Justice Implications

How about more on that topic?

A memory might seem like a permanent, precious essence carved deep into the circuits of the brain. But it is not. Instead, scientists are discovering that a memory changes every time you think about it.

"Every time you recall a memory, it becomes sensitive to disruption. Often that is used to incorporate new information into it." That's the blunt assessment from one of the world's leading experts on memory, Dr. Eric Kandel from Columbia University.

And that means our memories are not abstract snapshots stored forever in a bulging file in our mind, but rather, they're a collection of brain cells — neurons that undergo chemical changes every time they're engaged.

CBC Health: Scientists explore the illusion of memory

Need any more?

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Need any more?

absolutely, for one, we are not talking about tow or three witnesses....this is HUNDREDS of rescue professionals...oh, did ya see the word..."professional".....they are trained professionals designed just for that...seeing ordinary American at their worst.....I notice you show NO study of trained professionals and how memory effects them....seems that is part of their job...to notice their surroundings...


now show how they were under any more stress than when fighting another other fire/disaster.....

notice I said fire......

a reply to: hgfbob

Still humans.
Not ubermensche immune to what the information I've provided goes over.
They still suffer from the effects of stress, especially on that day.
I am curious how many suffer from PTSD due to the events that day.

You know, something even our highly trained soldiers are susceptible to?

And while I doubt your comments as to "hundreds" is accurate.
It could be chocked up to the phenom where people's memories will sync with others.
It's been proven.

Science beats you here.
Sorry Charlie.


Addition: Yep. PTSD.

The prevalence of probable PTSD among more than 11,000 firefighters in the FDNY WTC Medical Monitoring and Treatment Program nine years after 9/11 was four times higher than in the general population, 7.4% compared to 1.8%. Early arrival at the WTC site, exercising less and drinking more alcohol were associated with the persistence or onset of PTSD symptoms, as were co-occurring respiratory or gastroesophageal reflux symptoms.31

9/11 Health

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Still humans.

whom saw the SAME event and have the SAME reaction....disbelief.

read for yourself, FDNY decided to do their own, sworn transcripts of what they saw,heard and felt on 9-11, started a few weeks after 9-11

503 FDNY sworn transcripts


300+ report booms and other loud, "boom, boom, boom" sounds not associated with an office fire

118 report very large, concussive explosions, NOT associated with office fires, but that they associated the collapse with, directly referencing controlled demo, going off throughout the towers, underground, & outside the towers minutes before and during both collapses, "we never got that close to the building, the explosion blew, and knocked us all over"

10 support the "official" seeing the building pancake...

hey, since the majority are together on their witnessed event, seems those few whom claim the 'pancake' are the ones with PTSD......not dealing with reality.

Science beats you here.

you have not offered any.....and SCIENCE is the reason all you duhbunkers refuse to discuss 9-11...remember.


maybe you can answer why the City took those away from the FDNY???

and after a two year court battle using the FOIA, they had to give them back, but not before they 'BLACKED' out a lot of the FDNY testimony....what they saw, heard and felt.....now WHY would some one do that???

they were just office fires....right.......so why did the City NOT want that testimony to get out?

WHY were all those there hit with a gag order NOT to discuss 9-11

and while they got MOST of the testimonies, they didn't get them all......


Angel Rivera has a good one.

Angel Rivera FDNY was given a crew about 9am to go into WTC3, The Marriott to make sure it was evacuated.

Angel Rivera FDNY evacuating the Marriott Hotel Explosions BEFORE any tower falls

(pg4)
"So we walk all the way up, no problem.
Then we hear the explosion and debris falling.
We were looking out of the windows and see body parts all over the place. It was scary. It was very sad.
We searched 14, 15, went in one lobby, we came out the other way, we went in one stairway, came up -- when we hit the 19th floor, something horrendous happened. It was like a bomb went off. We thought we were dead.
The whole building shook. The brick coming out of -- the door to the hallway into the hotel blew off like somebody had thrown it all
over the place. It shook all over the place. We
were thrown on the floor. We looked inside the lobby after
everything calmed down, and everything was
collapsed."

no tower has fallen yet.....

(pg5)
2]..."The building was still shaking and
we're still hearing explosions going on everywhere, so we decided let's get out of here. We ran all the way down to the fourth floor where we ran out of stairs. There were no more stairs. We met on that floor, and we were all safe. We were all like-we could have been over here. What happened, we looked out of the window of the hotel, the wall, practically, because the window was all blown up. There was no way out. The only way out was the roof rope."

now, if it was the tower collapse that took out the FIRST three flights of stairs, how did the vertical descent go through them without them noticing to take out the stairs directly below them they went up MOMENTS earlier?????

(pg7) First tower falls-
"and then the most horrendous thing happened. That's
when hell came down. It was like a huge,
enormous explosion. I still can hear it.
Everything shook. Everything went black. The
wind rushed, very slowly [sound], all the dust,
all the-and everything went dark.
We were rolling all over the floor,
banging against the walls. I thought I was alone. I thought I was buried alive."

4] Second tower falls-(pg.9)
"When the second tower came down, we had
no idea what was going on. We thought another
plane, another bomb, another as a second device.
We thought, this is it, we are dead.
When that happened, as I told you
before, everything was black. It was like being
inside a storm or volcano or something, something
horrendous. We said we're going to die."

So finally we
found out where there was a beam. Maybe God put
it there. It was an enormous beam about 20 feet
away from us that was against the building but to
the level where we were, like it started where we
were, all the way to the ground.
One of the guys said, "This is our way
out." So we all went that way.(pg10)

a quick synopsis of testimony shows two pages of unanswered explosion going on before the FIRST tower collapses..

so AGAIN, tell me how falling tower debris can take out those first three flights of stairs WITHOUT killing them in the process.

oh, and just so you know, when they mention the word "lobby" that is a reference to the 'common' area of the hotel...

a reply to: hgfbob

you have not offered any.....and SCIENCE is the reason all you duhbunkers refuse to discuss 9-11...remember.

Actually I have.
Did you actually fail to notice all that information on memory retention and how stress affects it?


Notice that all your "sworn" testimonies are at least close to month after the fact?
Biologically speaking, that's ages.
Especially considering we are talking about memory encoding, storage, and retrieval.
Memories can be encoding wrong.
It's likely in a high stress situation.
It can be stored wrong.
Various neurochemical reasons for that.
Even for someone healthy.
After a month of talking about an event, we're talking about multiple, multiple, MULTIPLE times recalling the information.
Each time the specific memory is even thought about, it is changed.
I have shown you that it's been proven that memories can be changed at the retrieval stage.
ALL OF THIS IS IN THE INFORMATION I PROVIDED YOU.


And if you cannot understand the information I am providing or even pay enough attention to what I am actually saying.
Well....