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Archetypal myths and universal truth

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posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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I just watched an interesting video of an interview with Tom Harpur. He is the author of "The Pagan Christ", and a former Anglican (CofE/Episcopal) priest.

I see the daily poo-storm that goes on here - the constant "My belief is correct and you suck (are wrong/going to hell)" bickering, and I also know that many Monotheists regard the concept of we are all Divine as 'woowoo New Age nonsense.' The strife is unpleasant, and unsettling. So, I decided to bring him and his work up yet again (yes, I did a search, and see that he's been discussed before, but considering that we are a new crop of ATSers I believe it deserves a fresh review.)

This is an elderly man who has spent his life trying to 'source' the story of Jesus, comparing it to other faiths and traditions. He found too many parallels to dismiss, and presents an excellent case:

The fact that ALL of the myths have a common denominator of an archetype, a 'divine teacher', that speaks to the fact that we are ALL part of the Divine is the key to ending humanity's religious wars.

He points out that there are 180 (ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY) direct similarities between Horus (of ancient Egypt) and Jesus. There are 16 different divine figures who were crucified. Horus in particular raised a "Lazarus" from the dead, and ALSO said, he was "the way, the truth, and the life."

Harpur states that the monopoly that the Christians of the 3rd century tried to grasp was offensive to the 'pagans' because they KNEW that Christianity had simply usurped their own myths, repackaged them, and were spreading them as "actual history. He believes this is what has contributed most to the ongoing infighting among believers in God.

He talks about the burning of the library at Alexandria - how thousands upon thousands of books were burned, evidence destroyed.

One particularly important point is the use of the cross through antiquity - as far back as we can go. He states that the spiritual and the material being united in mankind is the Universal Truth - based on every single religion ever.

The upright (vertical) of the cross symbol is meant to represent the spirit. The crossbar (horizontal) is representative of matter - our bodies. They intersect at the heart. He says that when Jesus reportedly said, "take up your cross" he meant to recognize this - that spirit and matter are in all of us.

So yes, we New Agers get that. "Namaste" means "the divine in me recognizes and appreciates the divine in you."

His main point is that people of faith should be able to EMBRACE one another around this commonality. Telling others they are doomed, or going to hell, because they use a different version of the same archetypal myth but with a different "hero" at the forefront is ridiculous.

Harpur calls for a universal "Cosmic Spirituality", where we ALL realize we are ALL parts (or fractals) of the Divine.
It's a wonderful blend of Deism (the universe as emanation of the Divine) with the notion of our connectedness to all of nature, all of the universe, each other, and THE SOURCE.

It's only 23 minutes, and I hope you all will watch it (or alternatively look him up).
The Bible is NOT a literal history. It never was. We ARE all part of the Divine - just as much as Jesus or anyone else was, which is, in fact, what Jesus said.

Enjoy:

Looking forward to your responses and thoughts.

Namaste. To all of you.
edit on 6/2/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: change title




posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thanks for sharing just confirms ny belief even more

Namaste



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

He talks about the burning of the library at Alexandria - how thousands upon thousands of books were burned, evidence destroyed.
The Christians back then probably wanted to destroy the evidence that there were actually competing beliefs that had been around a lot longer than theirs.

Harpur calls for a universal "Cosmic Spirituality", where we ALL realize we are ALL parts (or fractals) of the Divine.
Rather than forcing everyone into a single religion, we should all just be proper Christians, which includes accepting other people even if they disagree.
We just don't need to join in with others as participants in activities that we do not morally approve of.


edit on 2-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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Awesome video! I do agree that if people would accept the fact that we are all part of something big we would all be a lot happier. I would love to see the unity of all religions in my lifetime. This world would be a happier place.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I would be interested to see if his book has citations to the actual texts from which the comparisons are made. I have tried researching the similarities myself and I seem to always end up with the person citing another persons book who happens to have cited someone else and so on.
edit on 2-6-2014 by drivers1492 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I look to the nature of the characters of the story. Jesus was meek and kind, very personable and truthful and poor, whereas horus was the opposite.

The big difference is that horus was a king of a worldly kingdom. Jesus was not. Christ is the King of the Spirit, trivial worldly pursuits are not the life of the gospel, although some similarities may occur.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


He talks about the burning of the library at Alexandria - how thousands upon thousands of books were burned, evidence destroyed.


Some interesting theories exist about the fires at the Library of Alexandria.

One is that Rome looted all the documents and then set a fire.

Rumor is that the Vatican has many documents left.

Anybody know about this?



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Knowledge they looted then eventually morphed into the religion of Christianity most likely, using age old wisdom to promote a lie.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: backcase


I look to the nature of the characters of the story.

I would suggest that you look a bit deeper.




posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You would love the works of Joseph Campbell. I strongly suggest you look inot it.


There should be some episodes of his miniseries, The Power of Myth, on youtube.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: xuenchen

Knowledge they looted then eventually morphed into the religion of Christianity most likely, using age old wisdom to promote a lie.


That knowledge doesn't belong to any particular religion, age, or culture. There is no way to loot it, steal it, or repress it.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Excellent video, thanks for turning us on to this guy. I agree with him whole heartedly.

There were many Christs, because "Christ" is a metaphor. We are all the Christ. "The Word was Made Flesh and (continues to) walk among us" when we all incarnated! The Kingdom of God is within us!

I love this guy, you might like him too. He expands on the same line of thinking as Tom Harper does, I think.




posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: drivers1492

Look for the actual translations of scrolls etc.... there are a number of sources online which deal in such things. but in all honesty the world of translation itself is a very murky one, many a meaning has been 'Lost in Translation'
hope the link helps in your search if you haven't already been there

An Example below

Sacred Texts : Egypt



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: windword

Bill Donahue.
I like the Genesis/Genetics thing he made. He seems to have a way of getting finding spiritual truths hidden in the bible.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: BlueMule

They have suppressed it though, there wouldn't be billions believing in lies if the truth wasn't suppressed. No, they can't hide it from everyone but for the most part they have.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

Thanks Joker. I have been there a few times for various things. I have found though, this particular subject of comparing jesus to others to be a bit muddier when it comes to citations about the works used to support what is being said. In alot of cases the citations are a large circle of just citations of other people without reference to where this information directly came from. Without direct text references your left not knowing where to start to verify the work presented.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: drivers1492

I understand and agree the Jesus parallels are harder to find and agree with, I guess what i was getting at (and this takes time i did it with Sumerian tablets) is reading through official translations or not as the case may be. and finding the references or similarities yourself. One thing i have noticed and must admit, a lot of the time these writers seem to fill in lots of blanks through guesswork,as you can see from below the sources are often broken and fragmentary. Sorry if i have missed your point again lol


for example there are claims Noah and the Flood have parallels with various cultures, below is the actual text translation of one of the Sumerian tablets depicting such.


The Flood story

Segment A

approx. 36 lines missing

1-10. ...... sets up ....... "I will ...... the perishing of my mankind; for Nintur, I will stop the annihilation of my creatures, and I will return the people from their dwelling grounds. Let them build many cities so that I can refresh myself in their shade. Let them lay the bricks of many cities in pure places, let them establish places of divination in pure places, and when the fire-quenching ...... is arranged, the divine rites and exalted powers are perfected and the earth is irrigated, I will establish well-being there."

10-14. After An, Enlil, Enki and Ninhursaja had fashioned the black-headed people, they also made animals multiply everywhere, and made herds of four-legged animals exist on the plains, as is befitting.
approx. 32 lines missing
Segment B

1-3.
3 lines fragmentary

4-5. "I will oversee their labour. Let ...... the builder of the Land, dig a solid foundation."

6-18. After the ...... of kingship had descended from heaven, after the exalted crown and throne of kingship had descended from heaven, the divine rites and the exalted powers were perfected, the bricks of the cities were laid in holy places, their names were announced and the ...... were distributed. The first of the cities, Eridug, was given to Nudimmud the leader. The second, Bad-tibira, was given to the Mistress. The third, Larag, was given to Pabilsaj. The fourth, Zimbir, was given to the hero Utu. The fifth, Curuppag, was given to Sud. And after the names of these cities had been announced and the ...... had been distributed, the river ......, ...... was watered, and with the cleansing of the small canals ...... were established.
approx. 34 lines missing
Segment C

1-27. ......seat in heaven. ...... flood. ...... mankind. So he made ....... Then Nintur ....... Holy Inana made a lament for its people. Enki took counsel with himself. An, Enlil, Enki and Ninhursaja made all the gods of heaven and earth take an oath by invoking An and Enlil. In those days Zi-ud-sura the king, the gudug priest, ....... He fashioned ....... The humble, committed, reverent ....... Day by day, standing constantly at ....... Something that was not a dream appeared, conversation ......, ...... taking an oath by invoking heaven and earth. In the Ki-ur, the gods ...... a wall. Zi-ud-sura, standing at its side, heard: "Side-wall standing at my left side, ....... Side-wall, I will speak words to you; take heed of my words, pay attention to my instructions. A flood will sweep over the ...... in all the ....... A decision that the seed of mankind is to be destroyed has been made. The verdict, the word of the divine assembly, cannot be revoked. The order announced by An and Enlil cannot be overturned. Their kingship, their term has been cut off; their heart should be rested about this. Now ....... What ......."
approx. 38 lines missing
Segment D

1-11. All the windstorms and gales arose together, and the flood swept over the ....... After the flood had swept over the land, and waves and windstorms had rocked the huge boat for seven days and seven nights, Utu the sun god came out, illuminating heaven and earth. Zi-ud-sura could drill an opening in the huge boat and the hero Utu entered the huge boat with his rays. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before Utu. The king sacrificed oxen and offered innumerable sheep.

12-17.
six lines fragmentary
approx. 33 lines missing
Segment E

1-2. "They have made you swear by heaven and earth, ....... An and Enlil have made you swear by heaven and earth, ......."

3-11. More and more animals disembarked onto the earth. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before An and Enlil. An and Enlil treated Zi-ud-sura kindly ......, they granted him life like a god, they brought down to him eternal life. At that time, because of preserving the animals and the seed of mankind, they settled Zi-ud-sura the king in an overseas country, in the land Dilmun, where the sun rises.

12. "You ......."
approx. 39 lines missing

Source ETCSL

Another hopefully useful link
Egypt

edit on 3-6-2014 by JokerThe1st because: Added info



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: drivers1492

As I understand it, Harpur references Egyptologists from past and present, who took the material directly from existing heiroglyphics.

Those who have gone on to read the 2007 sequel to TPC, Water Into Wine (2007), have seen the appendix there with its considerable contemporary scholarly witness to the dependence of the Jesus Story on ancient Egyptian theology. A reading of Siegfried Morenz’s book Egyptian Religion (Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, 1973 - see especially the footnotes on Horus, etc.) and a reading of Erik Hornung’s The Secret Lore of Egypt and its Impact on the West, will help cure any vagueness on this subject.

Harpur wrote that in his response to the reception of the documentary made by CBC (which I can't watch
)
web.archive.org...://www.tomharpur.com/documentary-afterword.asp



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
No you didn't miss my point at all what you listed would be exactly what I would be talking about. When I read that someone states this point comes from earlier stories yet doesn't cite like you would in your post it just annoys me. Most references aren't clear in the respect that the person's claim came from "this text section whatever". It always seems like they just say person A is similar to person B. When I read that I want to know what is used specifically to make that comparison to read it for myself as well as look at the support of the translation being used. Thanks again for the links provided.



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I am going to see if I can't track down an online copy of the book to look for the citation list. If I find a decent one I will post it up.



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