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What would make you NOT believe in God?

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posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: swanne

Science is a collection of facts and predictions.

Religion is a collection of assumptions ( mostly disproven assumptions) with no proof or way to validate it....

They are only comparible by the fact both sides think they have facts. When only one really does.




posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AfterInfinity

It shows no such thing. Existence is either Gods creation, or a wonderful and improbable accident depending on ones own beliefs, and I do not seek to change anyones mind by what I say, but please do not think yourself qualified to decide what I mean by what I say.


Did I say I was? Chill, dude. Jeez.


I am the only person who gets to decide what I mean, and I wrote exactly what I mean. If you insist on making more of my words than necessary, I cannot stop you, but any conclusions you draw from them about me, what I do and do not believe, or anything else for that matter, will be flawed.


I accept that. I have a flawed understanding of absolutely everything...as do you. So existence is not guaranteed to make you belief in god, but nonexistence is guaranteed to make you not believe.
edit on 2-6-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Damn... Point taken.....


You win this round err....


I laughed out loud! :p



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: ArtemisE

The validity of facts rely on the assumption that the scientific method, as devised by Francis Bacon, is 100% true.

I'm not saying science is bad, I'm just saying that it's a materialist philosophy amongst many other philosophies, including other materialist philosophies, ideological philosophies and mystical philosophies.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
You do realize that the religious are the only ones who think god and science match right. While the scientists who actually show proof and make correct predictions don't. That should be telling. Only the ones with no proof after thousands of years of trying. Think there both true.


Perhaps. But then, science doesn't pretend to know everything. It can't predict if there is an afterlife. It can't speak about the spiritual since it is a philosophy of the material. In which case religion has at least a few theories to present.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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Apparently, Dr. Nye was either entirely unprepared for the question, or had never given the subject serious thought. Of course, the question was illogical, but the respondents should have been able to cope with that. I was surprised to see that Dr. Nye is as narrow minded as he presented himself to be.

Does that strike you as controversial? I hope so.

First, God doesn't want his existence to be proven. How many times does he say that Faith is better than sacrifice? Remember the Doubting Thomas episode? Jesus followed it up by saying that those who believe and haven't seen are blessed.

Second, what kind of evidence does Nye want, after all? Is he going to go out and weigh God? Check His visual light spectrum? The thing is impossible and any one should know that. They would if we had schools that taught logic and philosophy.

Third, God has already given us enough evidence. The question is whether we, as individuals, decide the evidence is sufficient to persuade us that there is a God. Not 100% proof (see above), but enough to be firm in our belief that we have the right answer. That's how science works, too. There are dozens of things scientists believe, that they don't have absolute proof for, they're just persuaded by the evidence they've seen.

So, for Nye to say he'll wait for evidence that God doesn't want to show us, evidence that is impossible to be scientifically verified (People will always claim hoax, CGI, hallucination, anything but God's activity), evidence that is real evidence (something he can measure in a lab) he is rejecting the scientific method. He is asking Science to do something which, by definition, Science cannot do. The only thing Science can measure is nature. Objects, particles, forces, and such. God isn't any of those things.

The other speaker, at least, is logical. He knows God can only be believed in not proved. He knows that Science can't produce any evidence on the topic, by definition. He believes he has seen so much evidence for God's existence, that his belief is the one rational conclusion, and Science doesn't have anything to say on the existence of God.

I'm surprised. I would have thought Nye was going to be the rational one.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:02 AM
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Nowadays, one has to specify 'God'. The definition has evolved and continues to evolve & today it means something different to just about each and every person outside of the religious God(s).

Slippery.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: charles1952


First, God doesn't want his existence to be proven. How many times does he say that Faith is better than sacrifice? Remember the Doubting Thomas episode? Jesus followed it up by saying that those who believe and haven't seen are blessed.


If I might offer a correction here...your god doesn't want his existence to be proven. Also, forming an opinion without sufficient evidence to support said opinion is called making assumptions.


Second, what kind of evidence does Nye want, after all? Is he going to go out and weigh God? Check His visual light spectrum? The thing is impossible and any one should know that. They would if we had schools that taught logic and philosophy.


Generally, things that exist can be measured. Otherwise, it's difficult to say for sure that they exist.


So, for Nye to say he'll wait for evidence that God doesn't want to show us, evidence that is impossible to be scientifically verified (People will always claim hoax, CGI, hallucination, anything but God's activity), evidence that is real evidence (something he can measure in a lab) he is rejecting the scientific method. He is asking Science to do something which, by definition, Science cannot do. The only thing Science can measure is nature. Objects, particles, forces, and such. God isn't any of those things.


I'll offer the same correction as before - your god isn't. Let's not generalize here.



The other speaker, at least, is logical. He knows God can only be believed in not proved. He knows that Science can't produce any evidence on the topic, by definition. He believes he has seen so much evidence for God's existence, that his belief is the one rational conclusion, and Science doesn't have anything to say on the existence of God.


He sounds like a moron. If he knew and understood the first think about science, he wouldn't be relying on his sole opinion to determine the nature of the universe. And in my experience, science has a fair bit to say on the existence of god. I don't know why you would suggest otherwise.
edit on 2-6-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: ArtemisE

I think it's important to notice that you asked two completely different questions. You asked what would make us not believe in a god and then what would it take to dissuade us from believing our religion is "real".

Nothing could make me "believe" in something contrary to what I already know. What I already know is that gods exist. The other sides exist. These are things I confirm on a regular basis.

Now what could change my opinion about my religion? I'm open to anything that would change my views. My religious beliefs are such that they can't be negated exactly but it could be altered if I were presented with certain information. For example, I don't believe that the afterlife is a physical place in our universe (it is certainly accessible from this side) but if we suddenly received data from a probe that indicated a pocket of space which housed some sort of unknown energy fields and they were straight up saying "Hey, yeah, I used to live on your planet... I miss New York" or something, then I'd gladly alter my views.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: Cuervo


Nothing could make me "believe" in something contrary to what I already know. What I already know is that gods exist. The other sides exist. These are things I confirm on a regular basis.


How, if I may ask? It's always interesting to hear how people come to recognize a god.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: swanne

You do realize that the religious are the only ones who think god and science match right. While the scientists who actually show proof and make correct predictions don't. That should be telling. Only the ones with no proof after thousands of years of trying. Think there both true.


I am one of those souls who have connected to something and communicated with it without having a religious belief before the experience. If you call it higher self or god or whatever do not 100% matter to me. The reason Religions sometimes is interest me is that they sometimes give me similarities to the experience I have had.

I do not need to limit myself to Jesus or Buddha. I can read them all and see what they say with an opened mind without preconditioning to what they are saying. Kundalini energy is the remover of blindness.

If you have no proof then you are not really seeking to have the answers.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: ArtemisE


How much evidence would be enough to prove to you that you were created without a mother and a father? That you just popped into existence?

When you can answer that, you'll be able to understand better. I know God exists, I just know. The way I know my mother and father and siblings are my family. The way I know the sun rises and sets. So nonormal amount of evidence could prove to me that God does not exist. Of course, It's up to each person to decide what they need as "evidence" and for some people, no evidence would be enough that God exists.

To Digress a bit, a hypothetical conversation:

How was the Universe Created? A Big Bang. What banged? Idk, why did it bang? Idk, How long did the bang last for? Idk. Some scientists think it speed up for no apparent reason shortly after, why? Idk. How was life created on Earth? Probably lightning strikes or Aliens or something, but Idk. What created the Aliens? Idk. Do you understand how complex a single cell is? Yes, but it couldn't have been God who made it, it was probably dumb luck or Aliens...

P.S

If you noticed I said normal, because it could be possible that we are in some kind of galactic super advanced computer simulation, and it so happens that God exists in the simulation but once out of the simulation, there is something else. Or something to that effect would probably be enough. Would also prove the idea in my first question that your parents didn't' actually give birth to you but you were punched into existence by a computer code, or a virus

edit on 6/2/2014 by PsychoEmperor because: to add P.S



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: ArtemisE


How much evidence would be enough to prove to you that you were created without a mother and a father? That you just popped into existence?

When you can answer that, you'll be able to understand better. I know God exists, I just know. The way I know my mother and father and siblings are my family. The way I know the sun rises and sets. So no normal amount of evidence could prove to me that God does not exist. Of course, It's up to each person to decide what they need as "evidence" and for some people, no evidence would be enough that God exists.

To Digress a bit, a hypothetical conversation:

How was the Universe Created? A Big Bang. What banged? Idk, why did it bang? Idk, How long did the bang last for? Idk. Some people thing it speed up for no apparent reason shortly after, why? Idk. How was life created on Earth? Probably lightning strikes or Aliens or something, but Idk. What created the Aliens? Idk. Do you understand how complex a single cell is? Yes but it couldn't have been God who made it, it was probably dumb luck or Aliens...


We have evidence that suggests a big bang. You have a book that insist God did it. We use science on a daily basis to investigate, reaffirm, sometimes correct, or even scrap the whole thing and start over. You use faith. Faith doesn't require corrections, which is it's biggest flaw.


“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” - Carl Sagan



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: swanne

You do realize that the religious are the only ones who think god and science match right. While the scientists who actually show proof and make correct predictions don't. That should be telling. Only the ones with no proof after thousands of years of trying. Think there both true.


I am one of those souls who have connected to something and communicated with it without having a religious belief before the experience. If you call it higher self or god or whatever do not 100% matter to me. The reason Religions sometimes is interest me is that they sometimes give me similarities to the experience I have had.

I do not need to limit myself to Jesus or Buddha. I can read them all and see what they say with an opened mind without preconditioning to what they are saying. Kundalini energy is the remover of blindness.

If you have no proof then you are not really seeking to have the answers.


I have a question for you, in return: what would make you NOT believe in gravity?



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: ArtemisE


How much evidence would be enough to prove to you that you were created without a mother and a father? That you just popped into existence?

When you can answer that, you'll be able to understand better. I know God exists, I just know. The way I know my mother and father and siblings are my family. The way I know the sun rises and sets. So no normal amount of evidence could prove to me that God does not exist. Of course, It's up to each person to decide what they need as "evidence" and for some people, no evidence would be enough that God exists.

To Digress a bit, a hypothetical conversation:

How was the Universe Created? A Big Bang. What banged? Idk, why did it bang? Idk, How long did the bang last for? Idk. Some people thing it speed up for no apparent reason shortly after, why? Idk. How was life created on Earth? Probably lightning strikes or Aliens or something, but Idk. What created the Aliens? Idk. Do you understand how complex a single cell is? Yes but it couldn't have been God who made it, it was probably dumb luck or Aliens...


We have evidence that suggests a big bang. You have a book that insist God did it. We use science on a daily basis to investigate, reaffirm, sometimes correct, or even scrap the whole thing and start over. You use faith. Faith doesn't require corrections, which is it's biggest flaw.


“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” - Carl Sagan


Please don't act like you know my evidence
The "book" is not everyone's evidence. For some maybe.

What's your evidence for a big bang? It's a great theory, and it even has a lot of formula's that prove a few things correct, but there are a lot of holes. I think it's a step in the right direction, but to act like it's the be all end all, is a bit premature



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: PsychoEmperor

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: ArtemisE


How much evidence would be enough to prove to you that you were created without a mother and a father? That you just popped into existence?

When you can answer that, you'll be able to understand better. I know God exists, I just know. The way I know my mother and father and siblings are my family. The way I know the sun rises and sets. So no normal amount of evidence could prove to me that God does not exist. Of course, It's up to each person to decide what they need as "evidence" and for some people, no evidence would be enough that God exists.

To Digress a bit, a hypothetical conversation:

How was the Universe Created? A Big Bang. What banged? Idk, why did it bang? Idk, How long did the bang last for? Idk. Some people thing it speed up for no apparent reason shortly after, why? Idk. How was life created on Earth? Probably lightning strikes or Aliens or something, but Idk. What created the Aliens? Idk. Do you understand how complex a single cell is? Yes but it couldn't have been God who made it, it was probably dumb luck or Aliens...


We have evidence that suggests a big bang. You have a book that insist God did it. We use science on a daily basis to investigate, reaffirm, sometimes correct, or even scrap the whole thing and start over. You use faith. Faith doesn't require corrections, which is it's biggest flaw.


“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” - Carl Sagan


Please don't act like you know my evidence
The "book" is not everyone's evidence. For some maybe.

What's your evidence for a big bang? It's a great theory, and it even has a lot of formula's that prove a few things correct, but there are a lot of holes. I think it's a step in the right direction, but to act like it's the be all end all, is a bit premature



Did I say it was end all be all? My point was that we have evidence collected by thousands of scientists using trillions of dollars worth of highly sophisticated technology devoted to the study of the universe...and you have a book written by superstitious sheepherders in the first century.

Do the math.


edit on 2-6-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: ArtemisE


How much evidence would be enough to prove to you that you were created without a mother and a father? That you just popped into existence?

When you can answer that, you'll be able to understand better. I know God exists, I just know. The way I know my mother and father and siblings are my family. The way I know the sun rises and sets. So no normal amount of evidence could prove to me that God does not exist. Of course, It's up to each person to decide what they need as "evidence" and for some people, no evidence would be enough that God exists.

To Digress a bit, a hypothetical conversation:

How was the Universe Created? A Big Bang. What banged? Idk, why did it bang? Idk, How long did the bang last for? Idk. Some people thing it speed up for no apparent reason shortly after, why? Idk. How was life created on Earth? Probably lightning strikes or Aliens or something, but Idk. What created the Aliens? Idk. Do you understand how complex a single cell is? Yes but it couldn't have been God who made it, it was probably dumb luck or Aliens...


We have evidence that suggests a big bang. You have a book that insist God did it. We use science on a daily basis to investigate, reaffirm, sometimes correct, or even scrap the whole thing and start over. You use faith. Faith doesn't require corrections, which is it's biggest flaw.


“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” - Carl Sagan


Please don't act like you know my evidence
The "book" is not everyone's evidence. For some maybe.

What's your evidence for a big bang? It's a great theory, and it even has a lot of formula's that prove a few things correct, but there are a lot of holes. I think it's a step in the right direction, but to act like it's the be all end all, is a bit premature



Did I say it was end all be all? My point was that we have evidence collected by thousands of scientists using trillions of dollars worth of highly sophisticated technology devoted to the study of the universe...and you have a book written by superstitious sheepherders in the first century.

Do the math.



Science does not have one single piece of Evidence to prove to anyone that God does not exist. Is their a formula you know of that can prove God does not exist? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. (Despite the "thousands" of scientists, "trillions" of dollars and "highly sophisticated technology")

Science exists, God Exists. Science will one day learn more about the Universe, God already knows it all

edit on 6/2/2014 by PsychoEmperor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: PsychoEmperor


Please Note, Science has not one single piece of Evidence to prove to anyone that God does not exist. Is their a formula you know of that can prove God does not exist? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.


God hasn't existed for billions of years before we came along. Close to 15 billion, according to the latest scientific estimates. Dinosaurs didn't worship a god, amoebas didn't worship a god, fish and amphibians and reptiles didn't worship a god; throughout our entire evolutionary history, only in the last million years has an inter-related and undeniably ignorant species invented an all-powerful sky wizard as a placeholder for all the stuff they were too dumb to figure out. I can understand the sentimental value, but frankly, God is about 500,000 years old, which constitutes 7% of the current lifespan of the universe. Which is about how old we are. The only species to recognize a higher power. Ever. So if that asteroid hadn't struck the Earth, and the dinosaurs had lived to today, would God exist? Would there be any concept of a higher power at all?

There's my proof. What's yours?
edit on 2-6-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Something exactly like finding out I'm in a galactic computer would prove to me instantly I wasn't born to my mother and father. That or being shown the human createing machine. Or seeing video of god making me pop out of thin air.

That's the difference between science and faith of any kind. That's why atheism isn't a religion. That's why science isn't a religion.


Because if some one shows us that our present way of thinking is wrong. We have no problem adressing it. We don't refuse to acknowledge fact, logic and reason to hang on to traditions



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: ArtemisE

I do not think that there could ever be proof that God does not exist.

My nature constantly questions my faith, and I have pretty much exhausted all possibilities.



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