Blog: Common Atheist and Theist Mistakes in Argument

Yet something else I stumbled accross and decided to share.
Enjoy!

Common Atheist and Theist mistakes in argument

1.

I’ll start by saying that, in controversial argument of atheism vs theism, there is no definitively correct answer – so long as the opposition remains unproved, then the theory is valid, however speculative it may be. Causing a scene and claiming that your opposition is just “wrong” or “retarded” doesn’t support your argument, it just further permeates a negative stereotype of your own beliefs.

2.

Theism is not a religion, and religions are not necessarily theism. Religion usually constitutes not only the belief of God, but sacred texts, rules and ethical codes, ontology, cosmology, epistemology and many other beliefs. Just because Christianity or Islam believes in a God, it does not mean that theism is essentially the same. IIf an atheist is to argue against theism, then they are to argue the belief (that is that God exists), and not Christianity, creationism, or Mormonism etc.

3. (and the most important)

Fallacies are abundant in both the arguments regarding theism and atheism. The primary fallacy in this case is known as the straw man fallacy. The straw man fallacy is when the opposition (often intentionally) misinterprets one’s argument, and rearranges it so that it sounds absurd, yet vastly inaccurate. A prime example given which is in this Thread is by the following gentleman;

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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Atheism is not a set of beliefs – it is one belief. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sigh, not this again?!

Atheism is not "one belief", it's no belief. Why can't religious folk understand that?

a reply to: windword

Your argument is just a matter of semantics.

And it's funny how anyone who says something contrary to a popular viewpoint is automatically a "religious" person....

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Atheism is not a set of beliefs – it is one belief. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sigh, not this again?!

Atheism is not "one belief", it's no belief. Why can't religious folk understand that?

i reckon they cant understand that for the same reason none of us understand much... were animals in the infancy of our attempt to move forward with something greater then us all.

the sooner the day more can finally admit that they DONT UNDERSTAND anything comes the better.

"Scio me nescire"

plato was only called "The wisest MAN" because he realized that "If i know one thing, it is, that i know nothing"

wayyyyyyy to much ego and hubris today...

ETA

the question that always keep coming up for me is "what if everyones wrong?"

so far one civilization after another after another after another have came and went all believing they knew it all...

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Yes, (I put religious in italics) it seems that it's the "religious" people that can't grasp the concept of no religion/belief? set.

There is no "one" belief in atheism. All of atheism consists of "no" belief.

a reply to: mindseye1609

There really isn't much to understand. Someone presents a concept of "god", and someone else rejects said concept. Easy peasie!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: mindseye1609

There really isn't much to understand. Someone presents a concept of "god", and someone else rejects said concept. Easy peasie!

not even close, the word "God" is so loaded down. what do you mean by god? aliens that came here and engeneered this planet to the mammals after they blew up the dinosaurs with a rock? guy on a cloud rocking the duck dynasty beard? an old man who gives you voices in your head telling you to kill your kids?

the whole idea of god is a very deep rooted psychosis from tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. thats been twisted over and over so many times our goldfish memories lose track.


atheism isnt "no belief", depending on your moral compass 'no belief' is bordering on nihilism.

atheism is the DIRECT BELIEF that there isnt a god.

todays youth and 20 somethings are some of the most extremist people I've ever seen in america when it comes to Atheism/theism.

some day all these little stories we tell ourselves at night will all be just that, stories. wether it be "god isnt real IM TOTALLY AWESOME WITHOUT HIM" or "GODs got my back all day every day!"

difference sides of the same coin

a reply to: windword

Generalization to support knee jerk labeling.
Racking them up aren't we?

a reply to: windword

If it was nothing.
There wouldn't be a word.
We actively do not believe in the existence of a god.
It is something we, hopefully considered, then rejected.
That is a belief.
Or disbelief.
Which ever you'd prefer.
But it is something.

Let's be honest.

***

a reply to: mindseye1609

not even close, the word "God" is so loaded down. what do you mean by god? aliens that came here and engeneered this planet to the mammals after they blew up the dinosaurs with a rock? guy on a cloud rocking the duck dynasty beard? an old man who gives you voices in your head telling you to kill your kids?

That's why I say; Someone presents their concept of "god", and someone else rejects that concept.

atheism is the DIRECT BELIEF that there isnt a god.

No. Atheism is NO belief in god(s).

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

But it is something.

Let's be honest.

No it isn't.

Atheism is the default. Someone presents a concept of "god" that some else's mind never held in consideration, then, after some consideration of this new concept, the person rejects said concept.

It's not that hard to understand!

If it was nothing. There wouldn't be a word.

Isn't "nothing" a word?

a reply to: windword

Actually, agnosticism would be the default.
You can not believe or disbelieve a concept you have not thought of.

To provide you a little context.
This is from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

1. Atheism

‘Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God. I shall here assume that the God in question is that of a sophisticated monotheism. The tribal gods of the early inhabitants of Palestine are of little or no philosophical interest. They were essentially finite beings, and the god of one tribe or collection of tribes was regarded as good in that it enabled victory in war against tribes with less powerful gods. Similarly the Greek and Roman gods were more like mythical heroes and heroines than like the omnipotent, omniscient and good God postulated in mediaeval and modern philosophy. As the Romans used the word, ‘atheist’ could be used to refer to theists of another religion, notably the Christians, and so merely to signify disbelief in their own mythical heroes.

Less listening to the Four Horsemen and their echos and more critical thought and study is called for here.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: windword

Actually, agnosticism would be the default.

1. Atheism

‘Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God.

To deny something, one must first believe in existence to deny it.

Atheism is simply lack of belief. Lack of belief in a god. It is not anti-god or denial of god.

Agnostics true meaning is: god cannot be proven or disproven. In reality we are all agnostic.

What an atheist believes is there own personal philosophy. There is no dogma or group think.

Sources on what atheism is tend to be more philosophical then factual. Some dictionaries are catching up with the correct definition.

a reply to: Annee

To deny something, one must first believe in existence to deny it.

You must be kidding................

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Annee

To deny something, one must first believe in existence to deny it.

You must be kidding................

Not Believing vs. Believing Not - The Difference Between Disbelief and Denial

atheism.about.com...

Talk about your straw man argument.

a reply to: Annee

Ah.
So atheism.about.com trumps stanford?
Fascinating.....

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: mindseye1609

not even close, the word "God" is so loaded down. what do you mean by god? aliens that came here and engeneered this planet to the mammals after they blew up the dinosaurs with a rock? guy on a cloud rocking the duck dynasty beard? an old man who gives you voices in your head telling you to kill your kids?

That's why I say; Someone presents their concept of "god", and someone else rejects that concept.

atheism is the DIRECT BELIEF that there isnt a god.

No. Atheism is NO belief in god(s).

this whole thread has gotten me to dig much deeper into the root of the term Atheist and where it came from.

the term Atheist was used by people FIRST in the 18th century. calling themselves Atheist in repose to Theists. as in WITHOUT theism.

the original root is from Greece, atheos, which means "without gods"

heres where we get to the entrance of the rabbit hole........ HOLD ON it gets ridiculously complicated and bureaucratic lol

(gonna put wiki through its paces here lol)

atheism belongs to a school of though called Irreligion. Irreligion can then also be characterized further

When characterized as Rejection of religious beliefs it includes

Explicit atheism (where we find the semantics argument we are all in now)
Religious dissident
Secular humanism

When characterized as Hostility towards religion it includes

Anticlericalism
Antitheism
Antireligion

when characterized as the indifference to religion it includes

Apathism

When characterized as the Absence of religious belief it includes

Implicit Atheism (where we find the semantics argument we are all in now)
Agnosticism
Ignosticism
Nontheism
Religious skepticism
Free thought

the epitome of Irreligion is Deism from the 18th century "Age of enlightenment"

argument at hand right now is between implicit and explicit atheism... read above to see the differences...


you know what becomes all the more apparent the more i dig into all this....


"Scio me nescire"

a reply to: mindseye1609

You're right.
Thank you.

Which leaves us all a little bit wrong and a little bit right.

I would just like to point out, the article was quite obviously talking about explicit atheists.
Well, of a certain kind.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: mindseye1609

You're right.
Thank you.

Which leaves us all a little bit wrong and a little bit right.

I would just like to point out, the article was quite obviously talking about explicit atheists.
Well, of a certain kind.

I'm very glad you brought this article to our attention and created this thread. it has really got me thinking into this whole subject alot.

its a very very complicated topic... i think inherently by design. keeps everyone infighting.

the thing that always gives me comfort in my little cocoon of "IDK" is that space is just so huge that its nearly impossible that someone MUCH smarter and more capable then me isn't asking themselves.... "Is there a god?" and i just hope the god he/she finds is one that looks much different then the ones we've found on our planet... would hate to see the "Pleiades crusades" put earth in its crosshairs lol