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Ezekiel Failed Old Testament Prophecies

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posted on May, 31 2014 @ 08:29 AM
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More proof that the 'prophets' sometimes got things right, but sometimes got things wrong. They were fallible humans. Just because they 'prophecied' something, that doesn't mean it came from God or that it would happen. A good lesson for people ... just because someone claims a vision from God, doesn't mean it really is from God. And just because someone gets things right at times, doesn't mean that everything they say is correct and will happen.

Ezekiel 26:7-14 -

For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.


A 13 year war against Tyre and the city stood just fine. 240 years later the city was ruined, but then rebuilt. The prophecy totally fails.

Ezekiel 29:8-12 -

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee. And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.


Ezekiel 30:10-12 -

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his army—the most ruthless of nations— will be brought in to destroy the land. They will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken.


Both failed Egyptian prophecies by Ezekiel. Absolute failure prophecies.

Ezekiel 28:24-26 -

No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their neighbors who maligned them. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.


At no time in History have the Hebrews (or Jews) lived in Israel in safety and security. The people of Israel have been brought back from where they have been scattered ... that part has happened. But the safety thing? Nope. Unless the prophecy of Ezekiel is yet to be fulfilled .... a prophecy from 2650 years ago ....

So that brings us to one of Ezekiels prophecies that has not yet been fulfilled. (probably will never be fulfilledO This is supposed to happen in the 1,000 years of peace after Jesus returns. Ezekiel prophecies a temple (Ezekiel 40) with animal sacrifices (43:13-27) where God will dwell with Israel forever (Ezekiel 43:7). Considering Ezekiels track record for getting his prophecies correct, what are the odds he got this one right? I'd say pretty darn slim. There is no need for an animal sacrifice and civilized people won't stand for such a thing anymore.

That being said ... many times prophets (or psychics) see things but get the interpretation wrong. They might be seeing future events, but they get the timing wrong. That's because they are fallible humans. If it were God speaking directly to them, there would be no error. But obviously some of these prophecies are either their own human notions OR they are getting psychic visions (not God visions) and they are not interpreting them correctly.

So was Ezekiel getting his visions straight from God? Or was he interjecting his own notions and wishes? Or was he a psychic who couldn't correctly interpret what he was seeing? Whatever it was ... the prophecies aren't deadly accurate as you'd expect if the person was getting information directly from God.


edit on 5/31/2014 by FlyersFan because: quote




posted on May, 31 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

To succeed at prophecy all you need is a simple understanding of how people are and what they are prone to. Oh, and unreasonable people to listen. You'll get some right for sure, and books will be written about your "visions"!



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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This may help in a option to consider .Not saying it's correct or that even agree .Prophecy is a tough study .

edit on 31-5-2014 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

I love the part about civilized people won't stand for such a thing any more, because they don't stand for honor killings anymore either, or stoning people to death etc.etc.... I had to lol at this...

Jaden



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Just because they 'prophecied' something, that doesn't mean it came from God or that it would happen.
I think it was a way to process what had happened to Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians, then getting some psychological satisfaction of revenge vicariously by what passed for fiction at the time, but looked like "prophecy" to some people who wanted to make the feelings that they got from reading it heightened.


edit on 31-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
I love the part about civilized people won't stand for such a thing any more, because they don't stand for honor killings anymore either, or stoning people to death etc.etc....


Yes there are uncivilized people on the planet who approve of stoning people to death and of honor killings. But most of the Christian world has evolved past that so if Jesus has come and there is a 1,000 year period of peace, then the idiots who approve of sharia-stoning won't be around, or will be converted. (according to bible prophecy)

So I stand by my statement that people will be too civilized after Jesus returns to resort to animal sacrifices.



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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Lo ammi. His people are lo ammi. When Yeshua was crucified the prophecy clock for His people stopped. It looks like it is about to or has allready restarted after 2k years. We will know by seeing the end of the gentile age of grace and Israel brought to the forfront of global politics just as if we are transported back before the dispensation of grace. Notice how we are getting legalistic as a global society? How the Christian churches are becoming impotent? A large portion of the prophecies regarding Messiah and Israel are unfinnished due this "stoppage" of the prophecy clock. Because they were cut off for a time for the sake of the gentile. Lo ammi is the key to understand this.(lo ammi=not my people)a reply to: FlyersFan

Btw, do not waste your time waiting for the temple to be rebuilt. Scripture is clear tha mashiach will be the one to rebuild it. No, for the sacrifices to begin again they will erect a tabernacle. A tabernacle is a temporary dwelling ora tent. There are 2 tabernacles from the past. Moses had one made as did aKing David. Moses covenants were from law with blessings and curses related to covenants. David is of the promises related to His coming kingdom and eternal life. It will be Davids tabernacle where Yah mends and fixes. I believe they have it in their posession. It came from Ethiopia with one of the copies of the Ark of the Covenant that were kept there. They are only waiting on the ashes of the red heifer to begin the sacrifices again. They will erect the tent rather quickly when they make their move. I suspect it will only take days to weeks when it begins.
edit on 31-5-2014 by manna2 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan


Whatever it was … the prophecies aren't deadly accurate as you'd expect if the person was getting information directly from God.

Typically, a "prophecy" is a vision of things to come. The direct interpretation of which is difficult from our perspective because it requires seeing the events through the eyes of the beholder. How could they possibly describe modern events from an ancient perspective other than to say it "looked like" or "as it were" ?

Putting aside this was then transcribed by others (and much meaning could be lost) we're still stuck with their feeble attempts to describe what they wouldn't have any frame of reference for.

Whats failed maybe is our interpretation, not the descriptive. After all they had the vision, not us.





posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan
Something that always seems to be one the biggest anathema s of today is someone fortelling the future i.e. a phophet. When you think about it today they are ridiculed, hated told they are frauds etc - yet we are perfectly happy to revere so-called prophets from the past today on the flimsiest evidence going.

It doesn't make sense and I do see what you are saying about Ezekiel - his ideas are taken from the zodiac, the ancient clock which has as its quarters the Fixed signs of: the Bull, Lion, Man and Eagle/Scorpion/crocodile etc etc Scorpio is the most unfathomable sign the in the zodiac after all.

You only have to ask yourself were anyone religious to turn up how would they be treated today? we all know the likely answer - the majority would poke fun, about 10% would rally to them and the rest couldn 't care less.



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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That being said ... many times prophets (or psychics) see things but get the interpretation wrong. They might be seeing future events, but they get the timing wrong. That's because they are fallible humans. If it were God speaking directly to them, there would be no error. But obviously some of these prophecies are either their own human notions OR they are getting psychic visions (not God visions) and they are not interpreting them correctly.


I agree fully with you. I call it the ego projection problem where even if the information sent is perfect in the third eye the decoding to conscious mind can get scrambled both by what the person wants and the persons view of the world. Getting perfect synchronicity and getting telepathy reading/calculating the future perfectly can be very hard. The problem is that sometimes the word you are saying or hearing do not fit perfectly to get you to understand the meta/symbologic meaning behind the words that you are after. Communication is hard. I sometimes have a hard time to get Bashar for instance even thou I know in a way there is brilliant wisdom hiding behind his words and need easier words to guide me.




posted on May, 31 2014 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Well some major problems with some of your points OP. As for Ezekiel 26, lets look at the prophecy and see if it failed.

’" 3 therefore thus says the Lord God, ‘Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; and I will scrape her debris from her and make her a bare rock. 5 She will be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea, for I have spoken,’ declares the Lord God, ‘and she will become spoil for the nations."

Hmm, Well there was ole Neb who came and laid siege to mainland city of Tyre. After a successful conquest on the mainland Neb tried to take over the island Fortress, but could not cut off their supplies from sea. 300 years later Alexander came along and fulfilled the rest of the prophecy by using the remains of the conquered tyre into the water so that he could take the Island fortress. The ancient city of tyre has never been rebuilt, and you can still see some of its ruins in modern day Lebanon were nothing but a small fishermans village exist. So i'd say the prophecy definitely didn't fail.


As for the rest II believe it is still future to us. I believe Ezekiel 28 is talking about the time that is to come when the Jews have a false sense of peace during their pact with the anti christ.



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Hmm, Well there was ole Neb who came and laid siege to mainland city of Tyre.
I googled and found an article that says (in part)

Apparently the island was fortified first and called Tyre, while the coastal city directly opposite was settled later. It was originally called Ushu in cuneiform texts (Ward 1997:247) and later Palaetyrus (“old Tyre”) in Greek texts (Jidejian 1996:19).
www.biblearchaeology.org...
I would say this happened before Ezekiel was written, meant to give the book a general credibility for apparently predicting something that came true.
Of course this is a tactic used by frauds.


edit on 31-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
So i'd say the prophecy definitely didn't fail.

Yes it did. You skipped over this part - I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon. That didn't happen. And Tyre didn't fall until over two hundred years later. And the prophecy says it will be a desolate place. Obviously there are people living there now. There are a few ruins that have been preserved, but it's not a desolate place. So the prophecy fails.



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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aSeveral aspects of this prophecy deserve attention and close scrutiny. The prophet predicted: (1) many nations would come against Tyre; (2) the inhabitants of the villages and fields of Tyre would be slain; (3) Nebuchadnezzar would build a siege mound against the city; (4) the city would be broken down and the stones, timber, and soil would be thrown in “the midst of the water;” (5) the city would become a “place for spreading nets;” and (6) the city would never be rebuilt.

In chronological order, the siege of Nebuchadnezzar took place within a few months of Ezekiel’s prophecy. Josephus, quoting “the records of the Phoenicians,” says that Nebuchadnezzar “besieged Tyre for thirteen years in the days of Ithobal, their king” (Against Apion, 1.21). The length of the siege was due, in part, to the unusual arrangement of the mainland city and the island city. While the mainland city would have been susceptible to ordinary siege tactics, the island city would have been easily defended against orthodox siege methods (Fleming, p. 45). The historical record suggests that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city, but the siege of the island “probably ended with the nominal submission of the city” in which Tyre surrendered “without receiving the hostile army within her walls” (p. 45). The city of Tyre was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar, who did major damage to the mainland as Ezekiel predicted, but the island city remained primarily unaffected.

It is at this point in the discussion that certain skeptics view Ezekiel’s prophecy as a failed prediction. Farrell Till stated: “Nebuchadnezzar did capture the mainland suburb of Tyre, but he never succeeded in taking the island part, which was the seat of Tyrian grandeur. That being so, it could hardly be said that Nebuchadnezzar wreaked the total havoc on Tyre that Ezekiel vituperatively predicted in the passages cited” (n.d.). Till and others suggest that the prophecies about Tyre’s utter destruction refer to the work of Nebuchadnezzar.

After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar.

Furthermore, Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. Sixteen years after his initial prediction, in the 27th year of Johoiachin’s captivity (circa 570 B.C.), he wrote: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from Tyre, for the labor which they expended on it” (29:18). Therefore, in regard to the prophecy of Tyre as it relates to Nebuchadnezzar’s activity, at least two of the elements were fulfilled (i.e., the siege mound and the slaying of the inhabitants in the field).

Regarding the prediction that “many nations” would come against Tyre, the historical records surrounding the illustrious city report such turmoil and war that Ezekiel’s prophecy looks like a mild understatement of the facts. After Nebuchadnezzar’s attack of the city “a period of great depression” plagued the city which was assimilated into the Persian Empire around 538 B.C. (Fleming, p. 47). In 392 B.C., “Tyre was involved in the war which arose between the Persians and Evagorus of Cyprus” in which the king of Egypt “took Tyre by assault” (p. 52). Sixty years later, in 332, Alexander the Great besieged Tyre and crushed it (see below for further elaboration). Soon after this defeat, Ptolemy of Egypt conquered and subjugated Tyre until about 315 B.C. when Atigonus of Syria besieged Tyre for 15 months and captured it (Fleming, p. 65). In fact, Tyre was contested by so many foreign forces that Fleming wrote: “It seemed ever the fate of the Phoenician cities to be between an upper and a nether millstone” (p. 66). Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. Thus, Ezekiel’s prophecy about “many nations” remains as a historical reality that cannot be successfully gainsaid.

ALEXANDER AND TYRE

Bust of Alexander the Great, who conquered Tyre in 332 B.C. © TAOLMOR - FOTOLIA

The historical account of Alexander the Great’s dealings with Tyre adds another important piece to Ezekiel’s prophecy. By 333 B.C., Ezekiel’s prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed and its building material cast into the midst of the waters had yet to materialize. But that situation was soon to be altered. Ancient historian Diodorus Siculus, who lived from approximately 80-20 B.C., wrote extensively of the young Greek conqueror’s dealing with Tyre. It is from his original work that much of the following information on Tyre’s destruction derives (see Siculus, 1963, 17.40-46).

In his dealings with Tyre, Alexander asserted that he wished to make a personal sacrifice in the temple of Heracles on the island city of Tyre. Apparently, because the Tyrians considered their island refuge virtually impregnable, with war machines covering the walls, and rapidly moving water acting as an effective barrier from land attack, they refused his request. Upon receiving their refusal, Alexander immediately set to work on a plan to besiege and conquer the city. He set upon the task of building a land bridge or cause way (Siculus calls it a “mole”) from the mainland city of Tyre to the island city. Siculus stated: “Immediately he demolished what was called Old Tyre and set many tens of thousands of men to work carrying stones to construct a mole” (17.40). Curtius Rufus noted: “Large quantities of rock were available, furnished by old Tyre” (4.2.18). This unprecedented action took the Tyrians by complete surprise. Fleming noted: “In former times the city had shown herself well nigh impregnable. That Alexander’s method of attack was not anticipated is not strange, for there was no precedent for it in the annals of warfare” (p. 56). And yet, even though this action was unprecedented militarily, it was exactly what one might expect from the description of the destruction of Tyre given by Ezekiel hundreds of years prior to Alexander’s actions. The mainland city was demolished and all her stones, timber, and soil were thrown into the midst of the sea.

reply to: FlyersFan

www.apologeticspress.org...



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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Why the overpowering of and forcing into making concessions by Tyre is important to prophecy?

. . . Yahweh has given His people over to judgment and has appointed the Babylonian power as the instrument of that judgment.
Any resistance to this decree would be the equivalent to resistance to the divine plan.
Ezekiel 2 (Hermeneia: A Critical & Historical Commentary on the Bible) by Walther Zimmerli, page 24
So no one could be allowed to escape, even if it means fudging a bit by describing what happened to Tyre's outlying colonies, rather than to Tyre itself.
If they were (allowed to escape) that would ruin the excuse by the national leaders of the former Israel, for why their own country fell.
They could not let Baal be more powerful than their own god.
This understanding (as quoted from the cited commentary) eliminates the option that Ezekiel really meant the capture by Alexander.
edit on 31-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2014 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

I do believe ServantOfTheLamb and Manna2 have proven you wrong. Perhaps you could cook up some more of your "facts" to obscure the issue.



posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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Deuteronomy 18:20-22


But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

edit on 1-6-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 05:57 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I do believe ServantOfTheLamb and Manna2 have proven you wrong. Perhaps you could cook up some more of your "facts" to obscure the issue.


No. They did not prove me wrong. The prophecies failed. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole to hang on to your indoctrination about Ezekiel. Bottom line ... prophets get things wrong. They aren't exact.

Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. - get that ... failure. And no amount of backfilling a prophecy can make it stick. It didn't happen.
edit on 6/1/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I do believe ServantOfTheLamb and Manna2 have proven you wrong. Perhaps you could cook up some more of your "facts" to obscure the issue.


No. They did not prove me wrong. The prophecies failed. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole to hang on to your indoctrination about Ezekiel. Bottom line ... prophets get things wrong. They aren't exact.

Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. - get that ... failure. And no amount of backfilling a prophecy can make it stick. It didn't happen.
dude, this is all coming down to reading comprehension on your part. Neb was stated by ezekiel to be one of the nations. If it happened any other way held be wrong and yould have your failed prophecy. Ezekiel talked of many nations and it is you that attempts to make it exclusive about neb. You have the square peg in hand. Do not blame us for where you force it

After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar. 



edit on 1-6-2014 by manna2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: manna2

This has been known amongst theologians for years... I'm not sure why the OP didn't bother to look it up. It seems like the OP (a self professed catholic) is getting his or her material from anti-theist sources without fact checking it. I do find it remarkable that this thread popped up, though. I was just reading about this very prophecy and it's fulfillment the other day in a book I am currently finishing.

For those of you arguing for the validity of the prophecies fulfillment, it's clearly been fulfilled (right down to the fishing village / place for nets that exists next to the ancient ruins) if the OP or anyone else wants to examine the facts. However, I don't expect the OP to admit this or change their views.

OP I have a question for you: What is your timeline on prophecies being fulfilled? It seems like you are claiming Ezekiel's prophecy wasn't fulfilled because the events described in it didn't happen all at once within a certain period of time. I'm curious what time frame you feel a prophecy must be fulfilled in, and what criteria you've used to establish that time limit? Christ hasn't returned and it's been 2000 years... Does that mean he won't return in your opinion?

edit on 1-6-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



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