SWAT team throws stun grenade in toddler's crib

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
I feel bad for the child. But this is a true case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The fault needs to go to the individuals living there because their illegal activity was the root cause to this. Without their illegal activity none of this would happened.

Lol do you understand what "root cause" means? I'm pretty sure the root cause here is a delusional stance on drugs, if the police didn't take such extreme measures in the first place then none of this would have happened. Not only did failed laws create this situation, bad training and negligence on part of the SWAT team also caused this. They didn't have to bust into a home with children using such extreme force, in fact they didn't have to bust in at all, if they had of just minded their own business and respected the privacy of the people in the home, instead of trying to save them from themselves by arresting them and ruining their lives much more quickly than any drug would have, none of this would have happened.

Do I know what root cause is? Yes I do...it's something I work with every single day in my job. So I have a very good understanding of it. I'm not disputing what the SWAT team did. Like I said I feel very terrible for the small child. But again why was the SWAT team there in the first place? It's because illegal activity, regardless of what it was, was taking place in that house. I get it & I understand what you are saying but whether we like it or not we still need to abide by the laws as written.

What law was the child breaking??

a reply to: HawkeyeNation

I don't think enforcement of the law is the issue with a growing % of upset public. It sure is for some, but not the majority, I think. Most of us realize what you say is absolutely true. Law breaking does need addressed, as stark a realization as that is to say in some places, laws need enforced.

The question is, why is that needed with heavily armed, paramilitary style raids? In extreme situations where time is of the essence for life and death? Yup..as it once was, in fact, for how these resources were used.

Now? Rather than have to wait ... Oh who wants to wait?? ... for an opportunity like taking the suspect off and arresting as they jump into the family wagon to go to the market ..or coming out of a market with hands full of groceries and almost ZERO chance of violent confrontation? It's Quick, Run, NOW! and hit the house like Normandy Beach.

Well...I think it's gone clear overboard and cops can work a little harder for a living...like those long endless hours of waiting and watching diddly squat for a GOOD time to see or do something, not just the most convenient time.

originally posted by: Rodinus

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
I feel bad for the child. But this is a true case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The fault needs to go to the individuals living there because their illegal activity was the root cause to this. Without their illegal activity none of this would happened.

How about the fact that the SWAT team were not correctly trained...

Come on... god knows how many heavily armed men against 1 house/couple/child???

It sickens me to see how easy it is to blame the parents (even though they created the reason for the raid)... they did not throw the grenade...

The SWAT team or LE community should have done their REC job correctly first.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Yes I agree with what you are saying 100% but my point is none of this would have happened if it were not for the illegal activity. Again I feel sicken that this happened to a child because I have a child that age as well. But if I do illegal activity I have to be the one responsible for any actions that come upon anyone do to that activity.

originally posted by: Elton
What law was the child breaking??

None...that's why I said in my first post of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: HawkeyeNation

I don't think enforcement of the law is the issue with a growing % of upset public. It sure is for some, but not the majority, I think. Most of us realize what you say is absolutely true. Law breaking does need addressed, as stark a realization as that is to say in some places, laws need enforced.

The question is, why is that needed with heavily armed, paramilitary style raids? In extreme situations where time is of the essence for life and death? Yup..as it once was, in fact, for how these resources were used.

Now? Rather than have to wait ... Oh who wants to wait?? ... for an opportunity like taking the suspect off and arresting as they jump into the family wagon to go to the market ..or coming out of a market with hands full of groceries and almost ZERO chance of violent confrontation? It's Quick, Run, NOW! and hit the house like Normandy Beach.

Well...I think it's gone clear overboard and cops can work a little harder for a living...like those long endless hours of waiting and watching diddly squat for a GOOD time to see or do something, not just the most convenient time.

Yep I'm with you on that. I just don't have any answers as to why they thought the way they handled it was necessary. Warrant was issued which means they have information of some sort to perform the warrant. Maybe the owners had guns registered, maybe they had a history of assaults, who knows??

a reply to: HawkeyeNation

There have been and always will be people who break the law. This has nothing to do with abiding by the laws.

If you were speeding one day, and the cop pulling you over wasn't paying attention and rear ended you, would that be your fault since you didn't abide by the law? What if your child was sitting in the back seat, and got seriously injured or killed....would that be your fault because you were breaking the law?

I understand these are very different scenarios, but in some ways speeding is more dangerous than most drugs will ever be...so it really isn't that far fetched.

originally posted by: Euphem
a reply to: HawkeyeNation

There have been and always will be people who break the law. This has nothing to do with abiding by the laws.

If you were speeding one day, and the cop pulling you over wasn't paying attention and rear ended you, would that be your fault since you didn't abide by the law? What if your child was sitting in the back seat, and got seriously injured or killed....would that be your fault because you were breaking the law?

I understand these are very different scenarios, but in some ways speeding is more dangerous than most drugs will ever be...so it really isn't that far fetched.

Well technically it is your fault still because if you were not speeding the cop would have no reason to pull you over thus the rear ending would never happen. But now I'm just being a$$, lol. I get what you are saying as well.

a reply to: HawkeyeNation

Yes I agree with what you are saying 100% but my point is none of this would have happened if it were not for the illegal activity.

If only that were true for all cases.
There are plenty of cases where homeowners were killed when a no-knock raid occurred at the wrong address.

a reply to: butcherguy

Those are the really embarrassing extremes to show how little work and effort is being put into the process, in many areas, beyond just 'acquire and fire' for the warrant and door kickers to go kick some.

a reply to: HawkeyeNation

It sounds like you are empathetic to the SWAT team...guessing maybe you know or are yourself in some type of law enforcement position. I understand that...the pressures involved in deadly situations, the stress on you and your family of possibly never coming home from work. It is a tough job, but people choose those career paths.

Everyone needs to be held accountable. When I screw up at work I risk losing my job. If I injure somebody at work I risk losing my job and going to jail. Every case needs to be looked at differently given the circumstances, but ignorant and obvious failures like tossing a stun grenade into a crib should be immediate termination with no pay. If the baby dies someone needs to go to prison. If not, what is preventing him or anyone else from thinking it is okay to continue to put peoples lives at risk?

I have a son near that age and cannot understand how the police were so incompetent they did not know the person they were after wasn't even in the house and a toddler was there? Total lack of proper police work, failed war on drugs and no knock warrants just make a recipe for disaster. How can the average citizen have any respect for law enforcement these days ? Police are doing a terrible job these days and mostly everyone I know has a low opinion of them because of tragedies like this. I hope the cop that threw that grenade has to picture that kid in his mind every day of his life because I am sure that family will never forget what happened and my best wishes for that toddler to make a speedy recovery.

Sure thing is, if these SWEAT guys had brains they'd be dangerous.
Did anybody say yet it's the parents fault for doing drugs? I guess some moron will.
I wonder how well the raid was researched? cops mostly cultivate some druggies for information, they controversially do that here, the real nasties walk free, and the 'minor' dickheads do the porridge, rather than the other way round.

I do hope the child will be okay, the most important thing.

a reply to: trollz

Whoever is responsible on that (Swat Team) I think should be prosecuted and go to prison for a long, long time.

Members, staff and friends here at ATS....whatever your spiritual beliefs are....I urge you to please pray for this child.

Crazy stuff.
Next, the cops will be unlawfully entering homes and throwing tasers in the bathtubs with old ladies.

**ATTENTION**

There will be no more calls for violence, or discussion of violence done to this or any other person.

There will be no internet detectives posting any personal information if it is found.

Any posts of those sorts will be immediately removed, and you may face a suspension of your posting privileges.

a reply to: trollz

and the Government is worried about citizens misusing lethal weapons?

Just goes to show you how poorly trained the keepers of the peace are now a-days.

There are no words. Poor baby.

And yet again...wonder if he was an Iraq or Afghan vet. I'll go looking, but we might never know who actually did it. Sigh....

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