Couple of background points on this current debate. It actually is a pretty heated one in the physics, psychology, and philosophical community. That
is the debate of whether or not chaos really exists at all. Free will vs. determinism. First off one major correction to some earlier posts. Free will
is THE most chaotic concept currently conceived of and if its reality probably the most chaotic component of the universe. Think about it. If there
was no free will, everything would be a continual line of cause and effect, including our actions - perfect, measurable order. Choice comes up and
suddenly all time changes depending on the decision because the variables have changed, on their own.
Well determinism is simply the idea that everything is casual, even your mind. Yup, your childhood and biology made that bad date night happen, you
had no choice in the matter. Everything is just a never ending stream of cause and effect. This would be on the order side of things, because there
simply are no mistakes because before the dice even rolled the outcome was going to be exact because of the way you rolled it, because of the way you
were going to roll it, and so on and so on.
Determinism started out in the physics community during the Newtonian era. It was a scientists wet dream. Perfect laws and experiments guaranteed.
Currently the only theoretical physics not (yet???) determined, that is indeterminate, that is an actual possible element of chaos, is quantum
physics. The reason for the "yet???" is that that's basically determinists' argument. It only appears indeterminate because we don't fully understand
it at this point. Chaos theory, despite the name, actually relies heavily on determinism. Though I should mention chaos theory in itself is chaotic.
No, really, the theory is. Its actually a conglomeration of physics ideas that have anything to do with chaotic looking phenomena. And mostly tries to
prove its not actually chaotic. Someone really should rename it and come up with an actual definition. Chances are you know a bit about chaos theory
already. Heard of the butterfly effect? That's part of it. And that's what I mean, butterfly wings causing a tsunami sounds pretty chaotic, but
scientifically, is perfectly ordered, and determinant. Just kinda weird is all.
Well philosophers, and later psychologists started to catch the determinist wave along side. Philosophers though honestly kind of started this kind of
thinking on their own; that is to say, I do not believe were influenced heavily by this line of scientific thought even though many came to agree with
it. That is because the seeds were planted in the earliest of western philosophy in Greece, you know the whole logic rules all thing? Well Kant and
others took it even further, that logic is all, eventually to the point of there really isn't a subjective reality at all, that its an illusion, much
like Buddhist thought. What does that have to do with determinism, free will, order and chaos you ask? Well, the answer is in psychology.
See, in psych conception in the Freudian days, free will was assumed. Consciousness, subconsciousness, ego, id, superego, it was all a battle to see
what choices we would make in life. That is, the study of human behavior was a study in how we chose what we chose. Freud had some great ideas. Freud
had some downright disturbingly bad ideas. But that was just it, ideas. Now, its becoming a science. With so many advances in neuroscience and
psychoneuropharmacology (fancy term for mental health prescriptions), much like for physicists the idea that if you know your psychology you can
predict with certainty someones behavior has become very attractive. As it stands, most branches of psychological practice rely on determinism.
Freudian, that is psychoanalytic, cognitive-behavioral, and humanistic are the only ones that don't. Psychoanalytical is outdated, humanistic is
alternative at best, so that leaves only one actually accepted in the professional community that believes you have any choices at all!
If my opinion hasn't been painfully obvious yet, I think the very idea that free will, that is chaos in the universe does indeed exist. Why? Simple. I
think, therefore I am. Seriously. Consciousness would not exist in a truly deterministic universe. It just wouldn't be. If we are the same as rocks,
as in that system, why the experience, why the conscious will of choosing a different path. Even if self-delusion, self itself would not be.
Subjectivity could not by definition exist. And, as much as I like Kant for getting so close to the truth of things, he was wrong about one major
starting point for his theories. You can never be completely objective. Because if you could, you wouldn't exist at all. In short. Chaos is good. It
edit on 1-6-2014 by hk00107 because: misread