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Renewing my evil god challenge

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posted on May, 30 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Do you have any sources for that?


The fundamentalist op stated that only 3% of the planet believes that the God of the OT and Jesus aren't the same. That's hogwash.

5/7 of the planet isn't even Christian. So obviously they aren't going to believe that Jesus is God, let alone that He and the OT God are the same. That's 72% of the planet right there. His statement that only 3% don't believe is complete and utter BUNK. Then we have 28% of the planet that professes to be Christian. Just how many of them believe that God is represented by what the Old Testament prophets say .... that the bible can be taken literally and that it was always God speaking and not just the prophets own notions sneaking in ... maybe half.

Discussed on this thread

If you count the figures to include the Christians who do not believe in the literal interpretation of the bible, you get a 6/7 of the population not believing that God was speaking throughout the entire Old Testament. This gives you the 86% figure I quoted. If you want to think that the Christians believe it's God speaking literally throughout the Old Testament, even though they don't buy the Old Testament stories ... then you have 72% of the population still not believing that God and Jesus are One and Both are speaking together in the Old Testament.

Either way ... it's not 3% like the OP claimed. That's absurd.

Some of the figures pertaining to Christians not believing in a literal interpretation of the bible.

In America about 60% on Average believe in Noahs Ark and the other Old Testament fables ... which means %40 of Christians DO NOT and are still Christian.

80% of Catholics do not take the bible myths literally .. and they are still Christians

40% of Evangelical Christians do not believe in Adam and Eve and they are still Christians
That ticks off the evangelical scholars .. that these Christians understand the truth of Adam and Eve and yet they are still good Christians. But there it is. And many theologians at Christian universities have had to accept the truth that Adam and Eve didn't exist. And yet, those Christian theologians are still Christians.

Evangelical Christian Theologians Who Defend Evolution

Darwins Theory of Evolution is Compatible with Christianity says Rome

Only 30% of Americans Take the Bible Literally

Also of note may be the clear majority of Catholics (65 percent) who believe the Bible is the inspired word of God but should not be taken literally word for word,


Gallup Polls on Christians
41% of Protestant Americans believe the bible is to be taken literally.
Less than one third of Catholics believe the bible is to be taken literally.

Reform Judaism - Moses stories of Egypt are allegories

Jewish World Thinker - Jews were never slaves in Egypt

LA Times

After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is no conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under Joshua's leadership. To the contrary, the prevailing view is that most of Joshua's fabled military campaigns never occurred--archeologists have uncovered ash layers and other signs of destruction at the relevant time at only one of the many battlegrounds mentioned in the Bible.

Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel--whose people are portrayed in the Bible as wicked idolators. Under this theory, the Canaanites who took on a new identity as Israelites were perhaps joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt--explaining a possible source of the Exodus story, scholars say. As they expanded their settlement, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps providing the historical nuggets for the conflicts recorded in Joshua and Judges.

"Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we've broken the news very gently," said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America's preeminent archeologists.




posted on May, 30 2014 @ 05:44 AM
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originally posted by: godlover25
Are you serious?

Completely

I have to stop replying.

Your choice.

I don't know if your purposely trolling or totally confused.

I'm right. YOU are confused.

Either way, obviously what I'm saying is not registering.

Because it is completely wrong.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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While we are at it ... THIS is why the vast majority of people on the planet know that there was no world wide flood as told in the bible. The bible has been proven wrong. And that proves God wasn't speaking throughout all of the bible. As I showed in the figures above ... AT LEAST 71% - 86% of the planet understand this ... (not 3% as the OP tried to claim).

4,350 years ago (bible date approx 2350 BC) there was no global flood that took over the entire planet leaving only a single boat floating around which contained two pair of every critter on the planet ... critters who made their own way there and made their own way back to where ever they came from ... as well as contained 3 pair of reproducing humans. You could move the date back to 20,000 bc (as some people try to claim) and the genetics still wouldn't work.

If Noahs Ark happened .. then this 80,000 year old tree colony wouldn't have survived.
PANDO Tree Colony

Pando (Latin for "I spread"), also known as The Trembling Giant,[1][2] is a clonal colony of a single male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) determined to be a single living organism by identical genetic markers[3] and one massive underground root system. The plant is estimated to weigh collectively 6,000,000 kg (6,600 short tons),[4] making it the heaviest known organism.[5] The root system of Pando, at an estimated 80,000 years old, is among the oldest known living organisms.[6][7]
Pando is located 1 mile southwest of Fish Lake on Utah route 25.[8] in the Fremont River Ranger District of the Fishlake National Forest, at the western edge of the Colorado Plateau in South-central Utah, at N 38.525 W 111.75.


Science Daily
At this time there are 6.5 million land animal species on the planet. There were even more back in what was supposedly Noahs time. Two of each animal would mean at least 13 million animals on that boat. NOT A CHANCE!! Couldn't happen.

Light doesnt penetrate the ocean more than about 500 ft. if the earth were submerged under 29,000 ft. in order to cover mt. everest, no marine plant life would have survived and the oceans would be dead. Obviously that didn't happen.

Could Noahs' Ark Have Actually Happened?

If the 2350 date were correct, then human civilization would’ve had to undergo an extreme population explosion in the millenium following the flood. According to Biblical sources, there would have been millions of Jews leaving Egypt, so assuming a global population of 40 million around that time (~1350 BC), and comparing that to global population estimates later in history (an estimated 200+ million by 0 AD), would require an incredibly high population growth between 2350 BC and 1350 BC (5,000,000 fold increase in 1,000 years), and a much lower population growth after 1350 BC – usually less than 5 fold population growth within any 1,000 year period between 1350 BC and 1800 AD.

(3) The distribution of animals is not what we would expect if there were a global flood killing all life. If all life was limited to the top of a mountain in the Middle East in 2350 B.C., then how to explain the distribution of animals across the world? All the kangaroos on the Ark went to Australia? How did the animals get to the Americas? If they crossed via an ice-bridge in the Bering Strait, then the Americas should be limited to animals that are warm blooded and capable of traveling hundreds of miles across snow. This means no reptiles, no spiders, etc. Yet, the Amazon contains a wide variety of animal biodiversity. And why didn’t American desert animals stay behind in the deserts of the Old World? (See related post: “Creationism versus Animal Biodiversity”)

(4) Genetic evidence shows that human beings are far to genetically diverse to be descended from a single family in 2350 B.C. If Noah’s Ark were true, then all men alive today would’ve gotten their Y-chromosomes from Noah, and all human mitochondrial DNA would come from Noah’s wife and the three daughter-in-laws. Studies of the human Y-Chromosome show that you’d need far more than 4,300 years to accumulate that many mutations. Human beings could not be descended from a single male in 2350 B.C. What the studies show, instead, is that, in order to explain the number of mutations in the human Y-Chromosome, you have to allow for roughly 60,000-90,000 years. Similarly, human mitochondrial DNA requires roughly 160,000 years to accumulate that many mutations — showing that Eve could not have lived 6,000 years ago as the Bible says.


AND MORE INFORMATION AT THAT SITE.

Adam and his Eves - A lesson on DNA and population distribution for you

Creationism vs Biodiversity

Additionally, once the animals left the Ark, there are a lot of nearby regions they could inhabit, but didn’t. For example, all varieties of rattlesnakes are found in the Americas (33 species, and numerous subspecies). There are none in the Old World – despite the fact that there are regions similar to the American deserts – the Sahara, the Middle East, the Gobi Desert, etc. Llamas fit this same pattern – found in the New World, but not in the Old World. The Caucus (where the Ark supposedly landed) and Himalaya mountains have different species than the Rocky Mountains and Andes. Why didn’t some of the Rocky Mountain species stick around in the Caucus Mountains – they were already there the minute they stepped off the Ark. Similarly, the species in the South American tropics aren’t found in Old World tropics (Southeast Asia and Africa), and vice-versa. For example, New World cats and monkeys are different species than Old World cats and monkeys. Theoretically, with the movement of creatures caused by the global flood, one could find the same species living in distant places. Somehow, we don’t.


National Geographic - Human DNA Journey
For Noahs Ark to have happened exactly as the bible claims, we'd expect the highest levels of genetic diversity to be in the Middle East. But the fact is that the highest levels of human genetic diversity occur in Africa where humanity evolved.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Thank you. It's good to see some actual evidence.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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Alright. Look what I found. A thread from a year and a half ago with the same 'Ill renounce my faith' promise .. and the same welching on the promise ..

I will renounce my faith

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10)

It was all said on that thread. This is a duplicate.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

An excerpt for the sake of comparison:


originally posted by: godlover25
reply to post by mythos
 


You're lying.

Never, especially not in the OP, did I ask somebody to show me ONE verse where God asks somebody to commit a violent act,

Nor did I ever deny God did such a thing, lest I deny my God,

I understand God has handed down judgements in the past and used men as His means to accomplish this.

I said, show me ONE verse where God commands CHRISTIANS, since the FIRST CENTURY UP UNTIL THE CURRENT TIME, to use violence in any way, shape or form,

and, the God haters have been unable to do so,



The same malarkey, right down to the last drop. And look how swiftly our brave challenger fades into the background in that one, too. Goes from daring the general public to shatter his faith to hiding behind his idol and screaming about how wrong we are for daring to answer his challenge.

Some things never change.
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: godlover25

Dear godlover25,

What was the original topic of the thread, again? Yet people are talking about Noah's Ark, and DNA, and polling data. There are some subjects many people just refuse to have a discussion about, and anything relating to Christianity seems to be one of them. Repeat slogans? Sure, we can do that. Bring out old, erroneous information for the seventeenth time? No problem. But to say; "All right, a question has been posed. Let's verify the meaning so we are talking about the same thing and examine the question?" Nah, isn't going to happen.

For those who read the last page or two of a thread before jumping in to comment, the question, or challenge of this thread is to find any verse in the Bible that instructs modern Christians to kill, rape, lie, or any of that other bad stuff.

That seems clear enough, but people seem to insist that specific directions, given only to the Jews of 3,000 years ago, apply to American Christians today. Another religion, another people, another time, another purpose, yet people say that verses telling ancient Jews to smite the Molibianites (or whoever) mean that I have to go search out any descendants of the Molibianites and smite them mightily.

The indefensibility of that position may explain why the thread has been steered so thoroughly off-topic.

I really appreciate your efforts, but it is clear that no one wants to take up your challenge. They may be too cowardly to try and fail, or too afraid to admit that you are right. There may be other reasons for their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. Whatever the reason, you can carry home the trophy on this particular issue as no one wants to challenge you for it.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: godlover25

Dear godlover25,

What was the original topic of the thread, again? Yet people are talking about Noah's Ark, and DNA, and polling data. There are some subjects many people just refuse to have a discussion about, and anything relating to Christianity seems to be one of them. Repeat slogans? Sure, we can do that. Bring out old, erroneous information for the seventeenth time? No problem. But to say; "All right, a question has been posed. Let's verify the meaning so we are talking about the same thing and examine the question?" Nah, isn't going to happen.

For those who read the last page or two of a thread before jumping in to comment, the question, or challenge of this thread is to find any verse in the Bible that instructs modern Christians to kill, rape, lie, or any of that other bad stuff.

That seems clear enough, but people seem to insist that specific directions, given only to the Jews of 3,000 years ago, apply to American Christians today. Another religion, another people, another time, another purpose, yet people say that verses telling ancient Jews to smite the Molibianites (or whoever) mean that I have to go search out any descendants of the Molibianites and smite them mightily.

The indefensibility of that position may explain why the thread has been steered so thoroughly off-topic.

I really appreciate your efforts, but it is clear that no one wants to take up your challenge. They may be too cowardly to try and fail, or too afraid to admit that you are right. There may be other reasons for their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. Whatever the reason, you can carry home the trophy on this particular issue as no one wants to challenge you for it.

With respect,
Charles1952


If that is your honest opinion, then it seems to me that you are just as crooked as the member who started this farce of a thread. Here, allow me to post a relevant comment from another user:


originally posted by: chiefsmom
reply to post by godlover25
 


Looks there there are a few already.
I have a question for you though.
How can the bible as written, be of "today" when it wasn't written for "today"?

If that is your case, there is no way you can lose, the way you are asking.


This thread is dishonest, misleading, and a complete set-up. You can try all day to prove to me that the sky is blue, but if I close my eyes and scream, "LALALALALALA" then I will be in the exact boat you are in now. Obstinance is not righteousness, and this thread draws a clear line between the two. Sadly, the people who need to see it most are too busy trying to rewrite the dictionary.
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: charles1952
the question, or challenge of this thread is to find any verse in the Bible that instructs modern Christians to kill, rape, lie, or any of that other bad stuff.

OF COURSE there isn't going to be one in the N.T. .... because Jesus didn't speak that way.

The OP then stated that Jesus is the God of the O.T. and the N.T. We have stated clearly that much of what is trying to be passed off in the O.T. as God, is in fact NOT God but instead is HUMAN interference .. that all the 'go kill and rape' stuff is from the fallible humans and not from God at all.


They may be too cowardly to try and fail, or too afraid to admit that you are right. There may be other reasons for their reluctance to tackle the issue head on.

I think someone has taken over Charles' account. You haven't been sounding like yourself the past few days. I"m going to ignore this insult because you are usually level headed and polite ... and this soundbite from you is out of character. So I"m going to let it pass, this time, out of respect for your past posting history.


you can carry home the trophy on this particular issue as no one wants to challenge you for it.

Um .. no. He fails. Again.

ETA ... Oh .. and if you were honest .. you would take note that the OP of this thread is telling lies about what people post. He claims that people are calling Jesus evil. That's pure bunk. In fact, people are saying the exact opposite.


edit on 5/30/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan


ETA ... Oh .. and if you were honest .. you would take note that the OP of this thread is telling lies about what people post. He claims that people are calling Jesus evil. That's pure bunk. In fact, people are saying the exact opposite.


This thread is about proving that God orders people in the present day to kill, rape, steal, etc. In attempting to prove this, you are effectively calling Jesus evil because God and Jesus are supposed to be the same thing. So first we are asked to provide proof of these evil instructions, then we are admonished for suggesting that Jesus would be so evil by trinitarian association...ie Father/Son/Holy ghost all being the same thing.

Like I said, it's a set-up. Ask someone to demonstrate a crime and then arrest them for breaking the law. Proceed to use escalating situation as a spring board by which to launch a sermon on how good and great God is, and you've just about reached your destination. That's the only reason this thread was even posted, from what I can tell. A lead-in to a load of blind praise and "Lemme ask you, oh wait, I don't care because God".

Just saying what I've observed.
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

You have refused twice, make that three times to answer my questions, even though one set was merely eight true and false questions. Bypassing all of that, you make a statement.

Your statement addresses absolutely nothing which I wrote about. Perhaps you added something to the conversation in some other way with your 27 words. I counted them because I was impressed by how much you could put into so short a sentence. Just one sentence, remarkable.

In that one sentence you accuse me of being either a liar or crooked. You accuse the OP of being crooked, and the thread being a farce.

Perhaps it was because you were too tired to type any more than that, but you make extraordinary claims with absolutely no evidence at all. Isn't that the position that "non-scientific, brain dead, superstitious, ignorant, redneck, Christians" are accused of taking? Well, I suppose I understand you better now.

You have found a wonderful way of dodging the questions asked. Have you more methods? I can hardly wait to see them.

Have you any evidence that I am a liar or crooked? Present it, please. If not, as with any other unsupported statement, I expect you to retract it.

What a shame I have to go through all of this to ask you to return to the topic and engage in a discussion. I want you to find that verse which shows the OP is wrong. Perhaps he is right, perhaps he is wrong. Let's find out. But stop wasting our time please. Stay on the subject and display the verse.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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Damn....no 'with respect' from charles....he must be p****d



AI is right though.....the OP's question is malformed.

When and where your god apparently commanded people to kill, maim and rape young girls is irrelevant, it's still immoral and vile.




edit on 30-5-2014 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: charles1952


You have refused twice, make that three times to answer my questions, even though one set was merely eight true and false questions. Bypassing all of that, you make a statement.


The answers to your questions can be easily inferred by reading my responses. But I guess restricting my responses to oversimplified "yes" and "no" makes it easier to manipulate the discussion, yeah?


Your statement addresses absolutely nothing which I wrote about. Perhaps you added something to the conversation in some other way with your 27 words. I counted them because I was impressed by how much you could put into so short a sentence. Just one sentence, remarkable.


Maybe God told me to.



In that one sentence you accuse me of being either a liar or crooked. You accuse the OP of being crooked, and the thread being a farce.

Perhaps it was because you were too tired to type any more than that, but you make extraordinary claims with absolutely no evidence at all. Isn't that the position that "non-scientific, brain dead, superstitious, ignorant, redneck, Christians" are accused of taking? Well, I suppose I understand you better now.


6 pages worth of evidence, actually. Not counting the original thread. Which FlyersFan linked above, if you care to compare.


You have found a wonderful way of dodging the questions asked. Have you more methods? I can hardly wait to see them.

Have you any evidence that I am a liar or crooked? Present it, please. If not, as with any other unsupported statement, I expect you to retract it.


You are playing by Godlover's rules, which are glorified blinders intended to lead us straight to a predesignated conclusion contrived by the very same user who started the game. There is only one answer either you or Godlover wants to hear, and that's "You are right, and I am wrong." Honestly, we would have had better luck putting OJ Simpson back on trial and getting him convicted.

I don't intend to retract anything. I agree with FlyersFan, in fact. You used to be so much more levelheaded and rational about these things. That's not to say we agreed anymore than we do now, but you at least played fair. You seem a little off the ball lately.


What a shame I have to go through all of this to ask you to return to the topic and engage in a discussion. I want you to find that verse which shows the OP is wrong. Perhaps he is right, perhaps he is wrong. Let's find out. But stop wasting our time please. Stay on the subject and display the verse.


You are wasting your own time in trying to play us like fools. Godlover asked for everything he/she has gotten. We've played it as straight as is possible in a religious discussion, so I really don't see any reason to pay heed to your complaints. If you don't like what you see here, you know how to exit the thread.

And since my posts aren't going anywhere, I don't feel I must repeat myself. Review the entire thread if you have to. All of the verses I have submitted are still there.
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
When and where your god apparently commanded people to kill, maim and rape young girls is irrelevant, it's still immoral and vile.

That pretty much nails it.
IF that's God talking ... it's one nasty god.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
Damn....no 'with respect' from charles....he must be p****d



AI is right though.....the OP's question is malformed.

When and where your god apparently commanded people to kill, maim and rape young girls is irrelevant, it's still immoral and vile.





That's the whole damn point here, but apparently, we're still "dodging the subject". And meanwhile, they are waist deep in their magical book of excuses, desperately explaining away all the horrible scriptures we bring to the table.

That's the real game here. "How good an excuse can we cook up for every atrocious act committed by God?"
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: godlover25

Of course Christians have felt justified to kill and murder based on the scripture of the Old and New Testaments.

Holy Wars are just that, holy wars, whether you call them crusades, inquisitions or missionary outreaches.


The principal was not restricted to Crusade leaders, and was articulated by other Churchmen. The Bolognese legal scholar Johannes Teutonicus wrote in 1217 (around the same time as the above) in a commentary on Gratian: "If it can be shown that some heretics are in a city then all of the inhabitants can be burnt"

The idea of "Killing them all" and leaving it to God to sort out the souls of the dead is a popular one among traditionalist Christians. Indeed it is characteristically Christian. It only makes sense to those who believe in heaven and an afterlife. The phrase would be meaningless to an atheist. It is not difficult to find Christians today who espouse such views. Devout believers in US military units including Marines, Army Rangers, and Special Forces favour a slightly different formulation "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out." This phrase is found printed on T-shirts sold on military bases - The phrase even serves as an unofficial motto for some organizations in the US police and military.
www.cathar.info...



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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It's apparent to me that this thread is suffering from complete, legal blindness. It is entirely possible that the blindness is mine. Please, let's set aside the emotions and the sloganeering and examine this as though it were some math problem.

The OP presents the following challenge:

So there you have it. Show me where God says that I should kill, rape, pillage or plunder today, and I'll admit I cannot follow Him,and publicly renounce my faith.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this is the challenge, the problem that we are asked to meet?

So what do we need to do? The "show me where God says" part tells me that we are looking for a Bible verse rather than some private revelation. Based on the OP's comments, I assume he means the God as presented in the Christian Bible. Does anyone object to that?

There is nothing in the OP's challenge that limits the field of verses to the New Testament. I assume that he means Old or New Testament. Any problems there?

OK. So we are agreed we are looking for a verse, spoken or sent by God, somewhere in the Christian Bible. There are many verses spoken by someone else with no hint that it is a command from God, those are eliminated.

What kind of a verse? A verse in which God mandates behavior. Further, one in which God commands His followers to either kill, rape, pillage, or plunder.

But the OP makes the point of saying it has to be a verse applicable to followers today, in the modern Western world. (After all, the OP is probably a modern western individual, and he only wants to talk about verses which direct HIS behavior.)

Does anybody disagree with any of my statements so far in this post? I have tried to make them as dispassionate and accurate as I know how to.

Given that as the problem we're looking at, I can only think of a few possible answers to the OP:

1.) It is a logical impossibility to answer the question.

2.) The question is so structured as to allow only one answer, and that answer is "X."

3.) No, I can't find such a verse.

4.) Here is the verse you requested. I can prove that it is addressed to modern Christians, that it requires them to rape, kill, plunder or pillage, and that I have properly interpreted the context of the verse.

My own feeling? Before listening to people who will attempt to be logical, dispassionate, and accurate? There isn't such a verse, but nobody really expected there to be one. It's only an issue for fringe elements.

As I say, I might be suffering from blindness. Here is your chance to take a breath, slow down, stop insulting, and actually begin a decent discussion.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: charles1952

Its not blindness Sir Charles... Its misunderstanding the sly trick question...

He's looking for a verse that commands Christians to kill that can be found in the bible...

A book which consists of two "testaments" the OLD and the NEW...

HE will reject anything that tells followers of the OLD to kill... yet still claim it is Gods word, but he wasn't talking to Christians...

Going by the NEW a verse can not be found obviously... but the evidence is abundant in the OLD...

SO either God changed his attitude with the introduction of Jesus... OR The OT isn't God...

Yet the OP also claims the OT God is the same as Jesus... which simply doesn't make sense all things considered...

The problem is the OP claims Both the OLD and the NEW are Gods words... and the books says God doesn't change...

SO... IF this is the same God, he does change.... OR... He is still a ruthless tyrant, which we can find no evidence of in the NT... aside from revelation perhaps...




posted on May, 30 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: charles1952


Given that as the problem we're looking at, I can only think of a few possible answers to the OP:

1.) It is a logical impossibility to answer the question.

2.) The question is so structured as to allow only one answer, and that answer is "X."

3.) No, I can't find such a verse.

4.) Here is the verse you requested. I can prove that it is addressed to modern Christians, that it requires them to rape, kill, plunder or pillage, and that I have properly interpreted the context of the verse.


I think the condition requiring that it be addressed to modern Christians is absolute BS. If it's in the Bible, it counts. Period. But apparently, some members want to carry on as though ancient Biblical accounts do not set a standard for today's god. As though the tactics of 2,000 years ago are entirely removed from the deity lauded by millions today. And I say that is absolute tripe. Unless you can prove that there is a reason for God to have changed so drastically over the years. Oh, and make sure that explanation leaves plenty of room for his "eternal" nature. How can he change without changing? Hmmm, the tangled webs we weave...


My own feeling? Before listening to people who will attempt to be logical, dispassionate, and accurate? There isn't such a verse, but nobody really expected there to be one. It's only an issue for fringe elements.

As I say, I might be suffering from blindness. Here is your chance to take a breath, slow down, stop insulting, and actually begin a decent discussion.


We have been discussing. You have been dismissing. And up to this point, you have been absolutely unhelpful in this discussion except as a ball and chain. And in that regard, the only person you're helping is Godlover. Because, of course, he/she only wants to see one answer at the end of this thread, and it's the only reason they started this thread at all.

Can you guess what that answer is? Of course you can. You slid it into the post I'm responding to right now, treating it as the only logical conclusion in spite of all the answers you've been sneering at for the entire thread. Look at that, right up there. "My own feeling? Before listening to people who will attempt to be logical, dispassionate, and accurate? There isn't such a verse, but nobody really expected there to be one. It's only an issue for fringe elements." You've clearly all but made up your mind before even looking at the evidence. Another thing you share in common with Godlover. I'm sick of this BS. It's a clear demonstration of how little regard you have for fair play and rational discussion.

Don't ask me for any more evidence. Everything you need to answer the OP's challenge is in this thread. Oh, except for the answer you really wanted to see.
edit on 30-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: charles1952

Its not blindness Sir Charles... Its misunderstanding the sly trick question...

He's looking for a verse that commands Christians to kill that can be found in the bible...

A book which consists of two "testaments" the OLD and the NEW...

HE will reject anything that tells followers of the OLD to kill... yet still claim it is Gods word, but he wasn't talking to Christians...

Going by the NEW a verse can not be found obviously... but the evidence is abundant in the OLD...

SO either God changed his attitude with the introduction of Jesus... OR The OT isn't God...

Yet the OP also claims the OT God is the same as Jesus... which simply doesn't make sense all things considered...

The problem is the OP claims Both the OLD and the NEW are Gods words... and the books says God doesn't change...

SO... IF this is the same God, he does change.... OR... He is still a ruthless tyrant, which we can find no evidence of in the NT... aside from revelation perhaps...



Don't forget the fact that these old scriptures and old instructions are still good enough to prohibit abortion and gay marriage in the 20th century, but apparently don't count in this setting.



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