Renewing my evil god challenge

Stupid ***ing mouse.

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: Margana

Thank you for bringing me to my senses.

Sometimes I forget I'm not Paul standing at the Areopagus, and I'm just a chump sitting on his computer on ATS, lol.

I'm gonna go spend some time with my wife then head to Church for Vespers, tomorrow we celebrate the Ascension of the Lord.

God bless

not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. I wish there was a font or emoticon that people could use in order for others to tell when sarcasm is being used, it's so much harder to tell online.

I'm not of your religious beliefs so I'm unsure of what Vespers is & the Ascension of the Lord. ((I was of Presbyterian faith when I was younger but ran into some conflicts I had so now I'm spiritual person. I think people would refer to it is agnostic)) Either way, I hope you find peace with what you are struggling with. Don't let others decide for you what you should believe & shouldn't believe, let your heart/soul guide you. If God does exist((I believe he does, just different that what you believe)), he will guide you on the right path.

There is one part that people get mixed up on and there are no direct verses but it can be used to convince some with weak minds to kill and that is the thought of the antichrist and how he will be slain. Your faith does not hang in the balance with my post but the scriptures can be used to indirectly justify the killing of folks in the manner of simply casting that light on them that makes them appear to be the root of all evil. ie we are a christian nation that has GOD in our gov. and that same gov. has no problem using the death sentence and even doing war upon other lands.

Under what doctrinal authority will Jesus and his army be doing the killing upon the return? All you have to do is place a crown upon someones head and if it fits then death follows. By crown i mean a certain part of the new testament that will allow justification of ones mind to do such acts. Muslims scream allah akbar and americans scream i am god before the rampage. So yes with a certain amount of time and resources i could convince using the book someone to kill but in doing so i would be not telling the whole story and twisting part of it. Your faith is safe as long as you are a critical thinker.

originally posted by: Margana

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: Margana

Thank you for bringing me to my senses.

Sometimes I forget I'm not Paul standing at the Areopagus, and I'm just a chump sitting on his computer on ATS, lol.

I'm gonna go spend some time with my wife then head to Church for Vespers, tomorrow we celebrate the Ascension of the Lord.

God bless

not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. I wish there was a font or emoticon that people could use in order for others to tell when sarcasm is being used, it's so much harder to tell online.

I'm not of your religious beliefs so I'm unsure of what Vespers is & the Ascension of the Lord. ((I was of Presbyterian faith when I was younger but ran into some conflicts I had so now I'm spiritual person. I think people would refer to it is agnostic)) Either way, I hope you find peace with what you are struggling with. Don't let others decide for you what you should believe & shouldn't believe, let your heart/soul guide you. If God does exist((I believe he does, just different that what you believe)), he will guide you on the right path.

It's not a matter of what we decide for him, it's a matter of us answering a challenge he set for us. He asked us to prove something. But of course, the challenge was never intended to be met, it was only intended to demonstrate what he has believed all along. God is good, God is great, if God murdered my family with a rusty spoon I wouldn't question it, blah blah.

a reply to: godlover25

I also am not speaking of laws that pertained to ancient Israel. God was establishing a people for Himself, a people that the Messiah could enter history through, so they had to have strict laws. God could not allow His Flock to become tainted with impure practices, so the Old Laws had to be what we today may deem "cruel".
- See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

What a load of apologetic crap! The ends don't justify the means! What a tiny, weak little god you have that it has to destroy, destroy, destroy, in order to be able to implant an egg into a virgin to make a body pure enough for himself to incarnate into, so he could be murdered, because he loves us!

I'll bet you'll appreciate this totally intellectually dishonest argument, ala William Lane Craig, as to why a loving, merciful god would be so cowardly as to order men to do his dirty work of murdering pregnant woman and babies.

God knew that if these Canaanite children were allowed to live, they would spell the undoing of Israel. […] Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God's grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven's incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives."
www.theguardian.com...

There's no excuse for this kind of apologetics in this day and age. No God worth of worship behaves in this way.

Deuteronomy 32:
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.

24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.

Yeah? No thanks. Not my kinda God.

a reply to: godlover25

Thank you for refreshing my faith. You've run into a phenomenon which is common on ATS, but I don't recall it being displayed as clearly as in this thread.

Pick a topic: 9/11, creationism, radical Muslims, Obama, Israel, China, the list is lengthy. You happened to pick something which fell into the general category of "the Attributes of God." You will find, have found actually, that many people reach into their file folders on that topic and submit the same quotes and arguments they've done dozens of times in the past.

Even if you change it up by specifying God's instructions to a modern American Christian, it makes no difference. Out of the file folders come the same quotes and ideas that are relevant in some topics, but entirely irrelevant in this one.

I am a little disappointed for I thought someone might have found a verse that might possibly be interpreted that way. Instead we find discussions of Jehovah, the Israelites of perhaps 4,000 years ago, and specific instructions to a prophet or a general. (And they're usually named something like Admurindab or some other name I can never remember.)

Well, I hope someone will read the OP and decide to take a look into your challenge. Your game isn't rigged, you're playing baseball, and the other posters want to play badminton.

Again, thanks. I found your OP refreshing and unique in it's approach.

James 1
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Malachi 3
6 I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

Numbers 23
19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

Psalm 102
27 But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

If God condoned murder with the Israelites and never changes then it only goes to reason that he condones murder now. If he does not condone murder now then he does change and the bible is proved to be fallible.

Do you still worship him? Of course, your promise to renounce your faith isn't a true one.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

You've raised an interesting argument. If God approved of something once, and He doesn't change, then He must still approve of it.

Where I need some clarification is the "He doesn't change" part. Well, God is perfect, any change would be impossible because He would then be less perfect. Perhaps you are saying His words don't change? No, neither do the words of Shakespeare, Homer, or the Constitution. They have been written, they do not change (unless the Supreme Court is feeling frisky).

Or, do you mean that His opinions of things don't change? Now we're getting closer, but we're still not there. God's opinion of Evil has not changed, nor has His opinion of Good. Nobody would expect them to. But let's get to what you're really arguing.

You are saying that what God said to the people of Israel 1000 B.C. applies to the people of Indiana in 2014. God changes His instructions because the people are different, the society is different, the level of faith and understanding is different, but most important, the people of 2014 know about His Son, His words, His resurrection. God is facing an entirely different situation, and it only makes sense that His directions change. We need different lessons, than the Jews in the desert did.

But with all of that, God hasn't changed, Good and Evil hasn't changed, His words haven't changed. He's addressing different people in a different time and has a different lesson to fit their needs.

With respect,
Charles1952

well there's this

I'm God.

I have not returned, but always been here.

Go and kill.

I command you.

You can not prove that I am not God.

I shall forever remain unrealised to you.




Now, on with the killing and such.

originally posted by: charles1952

But with all of that, God hasn't changed, Good and Evil hasn't changed, His words haven't changed. He's addressing different people in a different time and has a different lesson to fit their needs.

What possible lesson requires genocide, infanticide and rape?

a reply to: godlover25
I cannot list somewhere that would be considered acceptable to your request as listed. I can offer this since your post is referencing laws and it seems that laws are what your looking for.

3 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
Titus 3:1-11

The above does not tell you to hurt anyone. What it does advise is to avoid foolish controversies concerning the law. Given the new testament theme is so blatantly different than what is presented in the old testament concerning the topic presented I felt the above quote is relevant.

originally posted by: godlover25
I refuse to follow a God who condones killing, raping, pillaging, etc.

He condoned and actually COMMISSIONED it 4,000 years ago. And God doesn't change. So obviously the 'God' that the prophets put forward in the Old Testament is either not really God ... or He's a God not worthy of following.

I cannot judge God based on His past actions,

Oh yes we can.

Show me where God says that I should kill, rape, pillage or plunder today,

JESUS is the God of today. He wouldn't do such a thing. Which should tell you that the entity that you think of as God from the Old Testament, really isn't God.

Just be honest .. you won't admit you are wrong no matter what.
Indoctrination does that.

originally posted by: godlover25
You claim Jesus is evil. You say Jesus is evil because He condones rape and murder.

My God .. seriously dude ... get real.

No one is saying Jesus is evil. We are saying that the alleged 'god' of the Old Testament isn't really God because He behaves in the exact opposite manner that Jesus does.

originally posted by: godlover25
Anything you have said of the Father you have said of Jesus.
You have called the Father evil, thereby calling Jesus evil.

NO .. we have said the 'god' of the OT is a fraud and its not really God talking.


This isn't rocket science dude ...even you should be able to follow that ... it's very simple.

originally posted by: godlover25
He handed down judgements in the past that were RIGHTEOUS and TRUE and JUST.

Not to the preteen/teen virgin girls who were condemned to a life of rape and abuse. And not to the children who were butchered. And not to the animals who were slaughtered and left to rot in the fields.

Oh ... and God doesn't change ... He lives outside of time. So if 'God' in the Old Testament ordered Hebrews to mass murder others and each other ... and to take teenage girls as sex slaves ... then He is doing it today just as much as He was doing it 4,000 years ago.

OBVIOUSLY it's not God talking in the Old Testament. Jesus would never order mass killings and rapes. OBVIOUSLY the prophets are not perfect and they interjected their own notions into the 'prophecies'. Use some common sense.

I think OP has a case of Stockholm syndrome, and is having a hard time telling us he wants out.

Indeed, his God is a horrible beast.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: godlover25

Thank you for refreshing my faith. You've run into a phenomenon which is common on ATS, but I don't recall it being displayed as clearly as in this thread.

Pick a topic: 9/11, creationism, radical Muslims, Obama, Israel, China, the list is lengthy. You happened to pick something which fell into the general category of "the Attributes of God." You will find, have found actually, that many people reach into their file folders on that topic and submit the same quotes and arguments they've done dozens of times in the past.

Even if you change it up by specifying God's instructions to a modern American Christian, it makes no difference. Out of the file folders come the same quotes and ideas that are relevant in some topics, but entirely irrelevant in this one.

I am a little disappointed for I thought someone might have found a verse that might possibly be interpreted that way. Instead we find discussions of Jehovah, the Israelites of perhaps 4,000 years ago, and specific instructions to a prophet or a general. (And they're usually named something like Admurindab or some other name I can never remember.)

Well, I hope someone will read the OP and decide to take a look into your challenge. Your game isn't rigged, you're playing baseball, and the other posters want to play badminton.

Again, thanks. I found your OP refreshing and unique in it's approach.

And what, exactly, is your preferred authority regarding the "Attributes and Instructions of God"? You seem to be disdaining the sources used in answering the challenge set by the OP, but I see no rationalizations for your poor regard. Perhaps you can provide the logic by which you've reached such a conclusion, as I see none. I don't see any reason why the information provided should be considered irrelevant. Because if it's not applicable in this case, it should not be considered applicable in any case - including every case mentioned in every church throughout the last 2,000 years.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
OBVIOUSLY it's not God talking in the Old Testament. Jesus would never order mass killings and rapes. OBVIOUSLY the prophets are not perfect and they interjected their own notions into the 'prophecies'. Use some common sense.

OBVIOUSLY? common sense?

And yet you still believe a wandering jew walked on water and came back to life after rotting in a cave for 2 days and is now the master of the universe....

You don't get to berate anyone for a lack of common sense....

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: godlover25
He handed down judgements in the past that were RIGHTEOUS and TRUE and JUST.

Not to the preteen/teen virgin girls who were condemned to a life of rape and abuse. And not to the children who were butchered. And not to the animals who were slaughtered and left to rot in the fields.

Oh ... and God doesn't change ... He lives outside of time. So if 'God' in the Old Testament ordered Hebrews to mass murder others and each other ... and to take teenage girls as sex slaves ... then He is doing it today just as much as He was doing it 4,000 years ago.

OBVIOUSLY it's not God talking in the Old Testament. Jesus would never order mass killings and rapes. OBVIOUSLY the prophets are not perfect and they interjected their own notions into the 'prophecies'. Use some common sense.

Then the entire Bible is suspect. Simple as that. Unless we're leaving it up to the same parties who made those mistakes to discern which details are mistakes? Leaving a thief to guard the treasure.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
OBVIOUSLY? common sense? .... You don't get to berate anyone for a lack of common sense....

Yes I do get to. This fella says Jesus is God. He says the O.T. God is God. He refuses to admit that the two don't match up. Common sense says they aren't the same God.