Total Biscuit's - Atheism does not make you clever

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows


well how do you propose that people of a particular faith respond to things like zeitgeist? it doesn't make sense to tell people to stop talking about it because once the thing is written, the idea IS to talk about it. if only people who agree with it, talk about it, and it turns out parts of it are actually wrong, the parts that are wrong then get perpetutaed right along with the parts that are not. can't very well deny ignorance that way, can ya?

a reply to: undo
Well, considering they flubbed massively on their research.
An example being mythological part of the documentary.
Even I don't like to talk about it much.
It's an obvious hatchet job with no interest of disseminating facts and wholly interested in supporting a erroneous preconception.
With as little factuality or objectivity as possible as any other bit of propaganda.
Rather like Maher's documentary in which he sampled only the lowest common denominator in a rather transparent attempt to demonize a group.

In short?
Not worth mentioning.
And should hold just about as much weight as the information the Nazi's disseminated about the Jews.


Here, allow me to clarify by defining tangent for you.

3. A sudden digression or change of course: went off on a tangent during the courtroom argument.

Hope it helps.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

i'm addressing the subject of the op, which is that atheists and people of faith, stop arguing with each other. my premise is, books written about the subject, which are then discussed in public venues such as ats, are part of what fuels the arguing, and it does so because people have their own views about the data.

vethumanbeing,

Regarding the Faithful In Dogmatic situations:I agree; no sense of adventure or imagination. Those atheists need to yuck it up and stop behaving as if everything they don't know is now in a vise meat grinder (producing tasty sausages of disbelief); its more of a carnival ride to understanding where their relationship to a creator being lies (unless they think they manifested themselves and own destiny all by themselves).

Yes..I agree I prefer to examine things which catch my interest. Something in the very nature of them that I so find.

With many Atheists I mostly let them go but when I tire of it I will engage them. I find that often they are somewhat emotional. To me this is the opposite of good logic and reason. I am not interested in Drama...If I want Drama..I turn on the boob tube or failing that ..I go to work. Lots of drama there to be found. Yes...Carnival ride indeed. I do not go to Amusement parks to get educated.

Amusement...

A .....without..


Muse...thinking....

Without thinking...amuse ...amusement.

Something fed to us to prevent thinking.

It is the same with watching television or movies. I am seldom amused. I am musing them..picking them apart. It becomes second nature after awhile...once you are trained in it.

I was taught this many many years ago..and at first only found it to be humorous. As years transpired I have found the definition of Amuse...Amusement(speaking from a standpoint of etymology) to be very appropriate and fitting to much of what we see around us daily.

Oh...by the way...very appropriate the manner in which you phrased.....that some believe they own destiny all to themselves.
I agree again.

They at least have a 'belief system' (as a primer grade school book; we all did but some traveled further) that could take them to higher revelations of awareness; problem is they are happy being told that dogma by a perceived minister/priest etc. and ok with it (this is just the potential jump off start point to real understanding of who and what they are and their relationship to a creator being). Mix sugar and salt (more bacon fat flavor) comes together the tasty magic happens. Thank you for your reply Orangetom.

Wow...I for one am not particularly interested in mixing sugar and salt...leven with unleven. I believe many of today's ministers are in fact teaching their flocks to do exactly that ..mix sugar with salt...leven with unleven. They do great disservice to their flocks in this manner. They miss the bigger picture. I also believe it was intended to acheive this result.
Many things we see around us are intended to do just this result..to get rid of the salt and insert the sugar.


To create Ishmaelites instead of those after Issac and his seed.

To create a world in which the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.

to do this you have to get rid of the line of Issac and replace it with Ishmaelites.

If you look carefully at the bigger picture...this is exactly what is happening and been going on from the beginning...and I mean from the beginning.......................................This is the Ever War.

My understanding is that we are the salt of the earth ..not the sugar.


Atheists are being used and misused to acheive this goal...and they work very well against those not of the salt but thinned out by sugar.

But in the end...they too will be thinned out by the other religion. For this other religion..brooks no competition.

This can be seen in history if one knows where and how to look.

Must make haste now..lots to do here.

Thanks for your views and understanding.





By the way..Undo...I think you are correct here..

i would say it's nigh on impossible to change the parameters of the discussion in some places in the world, moreso than in others. for example, try attending a world religions class in an american university. try challenging the status quo views of biology professors. try questioning the official position of egyptology professors. this is massive indoctrination into a single world view, dictated by who the hell knows, wherein the student is not only discouraged from disagreeing, they are often punished for disagreeing. how is that any different than its predecessor?

I am not into censorship and such intolerance from institutions who for years claimed and preached tolerance in their devout religious dogmas of "Higher Learning."

I am not into the censorship and shakedown methods becoming so popular today, even from leadership, from those demanding tolerance of others, and I find that todays institutions of "Higher Learning" are going exactly in this direction...shakedown and censorship.

And if you look carefully..this is exactly the direction government here in the United States is also going..shakedown and censorship. This connection between the two is not accidental.




Well said..well said.



Again thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: undo

Why you expect to be listened to when you do not listen is beyond me......
I think I shall go back to ignoring you now ma'am.
Good day.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: undo



Why you expect to be listened to when you do not listen is beyond me......

I think I shall go back to ignoring you now ma'am.

Good day.

Wow!!! Interesting effect!!

Orangetom

originally posted by: undo
i'll state for the record, that although he makes several good points, i happen to believe god can be proven, but it's not an easy case of 1+1=2, end of discussion. it's long intense study, crossing several boundaries of science, history, geography, archaeology, linguistics, etymology, and of course, scholarship. the question is not an easy answer, particular where the topic involves deep thought, and the opponent is not exactly wanting you to prove them wrong. lol

Once again Undo..you are correct here. I just happened to scroll back to page 11 and found this of which you posted back then.



In this vein I offer this for you and vetHumanbeing.

For this is The Ever War.


This is the long intense study crossing several boundaries of science, history, geography, archaeology, linguistic, etymology, and of course scolarship. It is not the do all and end all of the Ever War..but a guide to get one on the track and identify that it is indeed going on all around us.

I have never heard anyone do an instruction like this on any topic. It is long but not something one hears every day...nor from most of what passes for ministers today..nor from education.

If you scroll down the list to somewhere about lesson 35 through 48...the speaker goes into philosophy....and a concept called cognative dissonance. I found this on philosophy to be very interesting and it also was new to me the concept of Cognative dissonance and how it is used and misused to control or censor people from dissent or different views and understanding.
Managing whole groups of people...by dissonance...default settings.

I found this particularly useful when "decoding " news and events all around us daily.

Hope it helps you.

The Ever War...


midnight-emissary.com...

Once again ..must make haste.

Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

I'm stubborn.
But even I have a line.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: orangetom1999

I'm stubborn.
But even I have a line.

Does you line have knots in it?

Some people would claim that, if I had indeed done that, I'd have come to the conclusion, as an intellectual, rational thinker, that God does not exist. They would of course, be wrong.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Claiming to have an IQ of 155, yet can't shake the childhood delusions, pity.

They are theories that, while prove true today, may be debunked by another amazing discovery tomorrow. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Confusing scientific theory with hypothesis. IQ of 155 ladies and gentlemen

originally posted by: orangetom1999
veteranhumanbeing,

Regarding the Faithful In Dogmatic situations:I agree; no sense of adventure or imagination. Those atheists need to yuck it up and stop behaving as if everything they don't know is now in a vise meat grinder (producing tasty sausages of disbelief); its more of a carnival ride to understanding where their relationship to a creator being lies (unless they think they manifested themselves and own destiny all by themselves).

[I]orangtom[/I]Yes..I agree I prefer to examine things which catch my interest. Something in the very nature of them that I so find.
With many Atheists I mostly let them go but when I tire of it I will engage them. I find that often they are somewhat emotional. To me this is the opposite of good logic and reason. I am not interested in Drama...If I want Drama..I turn on the boob tube or failing that ..I go to work. Lots of drama there to be found. Yes...Carnival ride indeed. I do not go to Amusement parks to get educated.

Amusement...
A .....without..
Muse...thinking....
Without thinking...amuse ...amusement.
Something fed to us to prevent thinking.

This deserves repeating in case anyone it. I take words apart as well in the same way. A-MUSE-(actually)MENT; means....great insight here. The Eucharist (holy communion) performed by RCC bread wine ritual actually means "YOU ARE CHRIST" in the doing so (no one would tell you that was the function because even the priests don't know this).

[I]orangetom[/I] It is the same with watching television or movies. I am seldom amused. I am musing them..picking them apart. It becomes second nature after awhile...once you are trained in it.
I was taught this many many years ago..and at first only found it to be humorous. As years transpired I have found the definition of Amuse...Amusement(speaking from a standpoint of etymology) to be very appropriate and fitting to much of what we see around us daily.

Sure, those things are set up for us to watch ourselves being humans; with all of the banana peel slips, drama and in most cases we are paying for the pleasure/unconscionable users that are taking advantage. I know how to be a human and I don't need film to tell me how I am suppose to react to drama or behave. Bottom line; its insidious as to what the underlying message contains.

[I]orangetom[/I]Oh...by the way...very appropriate the manner in which you phrased.....that some believe they own destiny all to themselves.
I agree again.

Well, they in their "puffery bluster" will have to do it all over again in the next incarnation (as they thought they had it right this time around).

[I]veteranhumanbeing[/I] They at least have a 'belief system' (as a primer grade school book; we all did but some traveled further) that could take them to higher revelations of awareness; problem is they are happy being told that dogma by a perceived minister/priest etc. and ok with it (this is just the potential jump off start point to real understanding of who and what they are and their relationship to a creator being). Mix sugar and salt (more bacon fat flavor) comes together the tasty magic happens. Thank you for your reply Orangetom.

[I]orangetom[/I]Wow...I for one am not particularly interested in mixing sugar and salt...leven with unleven. I believe many of today's ministers are in fact teaching their flocks to do exactly that ..mix sugar with salt...leven with unleven. They do great disservice to their flocks in this manner. They miss the bigger picture. I also believe it was intended to acheive this result.
Many things we see around us are intended to do just this result..to get rid of the salt and insert the sugar.

To create Ishmaelites instead of those after Issac and his seed.
To create a world in which the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.
to do this you have to get rid of the line of Issac and replace it with Ishmaelites.
If you look carefully at the bigger picture...this is exactly what is happening and been going on from the beginning...and I mean from the beginning.......................................This is the Ever War.
My understanding is that we are the salt of the earth ..not the sugar.
Atheists are being used and misused to acheive this goal...and they work very well against those not of the salt but thinned out by sugar.
But in the end...they too will be thinned out by the other religion. For this other religion..brooks no competition.
This can be seen in history if one knows where and how to look.
Must make haste now..lots to do here.
Thanks for your views and understanding.

What will be the religion left "standing" in the end, as the ending result? Something involving Buddhism and Christ Concsiousness or the truth; that God is a field of binary 1s and 0s energy just innocently trying to express itself (to better know or define itself to itself)?.

originally posted by: Morg234

Some people would claim that, if I had indeed done that, I'd have come to the conclusion, as an intellectual, rational thinker, that God does not exist. They would of course, be wrong.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Claiming to have an IQ of 155, yet can't shake the childhood delusions, pity.

So smart but cant fathom God or any personal relationship to it. You would think imagination would come into play; to at least wrestle with the notion (hey maybe I am a god particle etc..).

a reply to: Morg234

Yes because colloquialism is totally not a thing and everyone smart speaks precisely...
[/sarc]

Are you done with the irrelevant shallow analysis yet sir or ma'am?

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Morg234

[I]HarbingerOfShadows[/I]Yes because colloquialism is totally not a thing and everyone smart speaks precisely...
[/sarc] Are you done with the irrelevant shallow analysis yet sir or ma'am?

This is your thread; and I have never seen one survive this long when YOU the OP is so chillingly disrespectful to its responders. You (if wise) would be garnering, championing those others thoughts that bothered to respond to your OP or at least be in true dialog with them (questioning wondering YOU ARE THE PROTAGONIST after all). You are a like a neglectful parent (and what is with the 'sir or madam' nomenclature) we are just banal expressions typing words. I am actually a flower grown fingers.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Give respect.
Get respect.
It's really quite simple.

A pity you can't understand that.

But the parent thing made me laugh.
Thank you sir or ma'am.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Give respect.
Get respect.
It's really quite simple.
A pity you can't understand that.
But the parent thing made me laugh.
Thank you sir or ma'am.

Pity "kill your name' in your profile (very telling). If it were so simple you wouldn't be borrowing others thought forms and using them as your own or as laughter fodder smerk shills/skill (for your internal beneficial to ego ha ha's). Smarter than the average bear you, but only amongst your perceived peer group ill defined so far as no one is coming to the forefront in your behalf. You care nothing for my understanding (or anyone else's) capacity for respect regarding others. You do not thank me at all; only in sarcasm you have your little joke with yourself; you MOCK my sincerity.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Gee, you think you know me after such an short encounter.
Therein lies the problem.
Not with me, but with you.

Feels good doesn't it?
Half cocked and under informed with little more than virtiol often does.

And lets examine that one thought for a minute.
I'm new here.
No one really knows me.
A few that don't know they do, do.
But I haven't identified myself to them as of yet.
And it has been a long while since I stopped coming here and using my old name.
Funny story , one of your copatriots in judging what little of my character you have seen knows me.
Undo, though she does not know she does.
So, even if I wanted someone to step in to fight my battles for me.
There is no one who knows me well enough to do so.
And that's without mentioning just how funnily illogical that argument is.

But anyrate.
Please, continue to make a fool of yourself with this crusade please.
The laugh is needed.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows



i'm addressing the subject of the op, which is that atheists and people of faith, stop arguing with each other. my premise is, books written about the subject, which are then discussed in public venues such as ats, are part of what fuels the arguing, and it does so because people have their own views about the data.

Undo,

I am not aware if you know this about how many things work today...and how they have been cataloged or identified to those trained in it.

Many issues today in a social structure have been deliberately groomed by someone to play against each other.

Racism is one such fingerprint or created structure. Atheism verses Christianity ..is another. Mostly they go against Christianity.

The idea that they stop arguing against each other is interesting since someone is so obviously playing each against the other.

In operation..this is a Hegelian dialectic...Thesis, anti thesis...synthesis. Another word for it is managed conflict.

The new political pattern in the last 50/60 years is managed conflict. If necessary ..use politics, media and other methods to create conflict, create bad guys and then manage it to a preconceived conclusion.

One of the popular tools used to control these positoins is one of "Cognative Dissonance."

You can see this taking place today in particular in the made to order cottage industry of "Racism."


Many of the ' ism" type conflicts man made and controlled today are using this dialectic and cognative dissonance to squelch any dissent...questioning or opposition.


In this manner many of these man made "isms" ... default through unchallanged or unquestioned.

They are made and managed to this very end. It is a show.

The problem is most do not realize it is a show....managed today by social engineers financed by certain government peoples.

It is designed and managed to promote conflict.

If you look carefully ..you can see the hand of government in this ..particularly in the last 10 years.

They are not even hiding their anti Christian position.

But you must be trained to spot it...It is not a training one will ever get in public schools financed by government.




With this as a baseline starting point ..I will now take the conversation in a slightly different direction...

Science as a baseline for the new anti Christian religion of the world...the new paradigm.


Science has been here for awhile now...but what is not taught by atheists who try to use Science to validate their beliefs is the history of men...using and misusing science to promote the glory of men.

The problem I have with science as a social paradigm for a new man made man managed anti god religion is that the Anti god nations.....Russia and China have used Science to their benefit while killing off millions of their own people. Yet not a peep out of our scientists here or in other western nations while this was going on. They are scientists...they cannot possibly be so ignorant about this going on in the world...nor can our own goverenment be so ignorant that they did not know it was going on...for they too use and misuse science to keep and maintain their power and power base.



This kind of thing...killing off and slaughtering ones own people is called. Democide

en.wikipedia.org...


Once you understand that the Communists under Russia and even in China killed off milliions of their own people ...in the last 100 years...this puts a very different onus on science as the baseline template for justifying anti god positions.

But this is not a template which will ever be taught in public schools. Our young people are never to know that this happened..it is simply seldom if ever covered for our young people to know.

I am not against science..per se. For science has made our lives less labor intensive and more comfortable. I just think it is a poor substitute for religion. And the history shows just that. Science is not even good validation once one knows the history of such governments. For the Communists were and still are great believers in science.
For all that matter ..so too are the Muslims.


Just some additioinal thoughts on the managed conflict going on here and amongst other peoples.

What I find very sad..Undo..is that even so few ministers teach this line of thought among their flocks. It ought not to so be.

Hope this sheds some insight into the nature of the conflict.

Remember this pattern..of which I speak concernign science and the anti god side of science. Particularly in the inner circle..and among political leadership.

And remember this pattern also when certain of the anti god people try to use science to validate their positions. Science will go where is the money and like politics...will sell their souls to get it ...and better yet..like politics...sell someone else's soul...using and misusing confusion along the way. And for lucre.

Not all scientists are unbelevers..I live right next to the NASA Langley Research Center here in Hampton , Virginia ...lots of active and retired Science types in this area. And many of them are Believers. And many are not anti God. But the inner circle...and in politics..this is a very different cut of cloth today.

Additional informations...no cover charge.

Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Let's not forget that the Nazis were mostly made up of Christians. As long as we're drawing correlations, that is.