Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

originally posted by: shapur
Stoning is a barbaric act done by a very few Muslim extremists in some remote places and it has been blown out of proportions by the western media for obviously biased intentions...Generalizing people based on the actions of a few is not wise and it is only used for propaganda purposes.

You cant teach sheep to look outside their fence, the Sheppard told them its dangerous anywhere outside their little fence.

I heard in America there is a mass shorting everyday! is that true!? lol

a reply to: lambs to lions

To me, they are just scared little boys that are afraid of the natural power and beauty of women.
The women of this earth should be protected and cherished for being the wives, mothers, and care-givers that they are. I don't know where I'd be without the women in my life.

The Anti-Feminist in me is trying to get out! i will try to keep it inside for this thread, but yeah lets not go there with the "women are pure angelic mothers that would not harm a soul".. i am sure it will derail if it becomes a gender bashing thread.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: lambs to lions

Exactly - and when was the last time we saw Mecca completely destroyed in a movie? I for one would relish seeing that, use

That scene was scripted for the '2012' movie. But the director wisely decided not to make it at the last minute. The fact that he showed the Vatican destroyed is a reflection of Americas approach to its own religion. Just because Americans celebrate the right to ''free speech'' to attack religious icons,figures and places, doesn't mean everybody else has to adopt such a mentality.

Do you not believe Free Speech is an inalienable right? Freedom of expression is something we should be born with. It is what helps keeps tyrants from ruling with an iron fist. If you want examples, open a history book and read about the Authoritative governments in Europe prior to the Renaissance and Reformation, and immediately afterwords.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: pavil
it's part of Arabic culture more than the religion.

... and the culture is based on the religion. The two can't be separated. Saying 'it's the culture so don't blame the religion' doesn't cut it. It's all together in one hot mess. And anyone who isn't horrified by this is also a mess.

It's not the culture, it's the religion.

Even in quiet little New Zealand a young Muslim girl was set alight while at work in a shell service station in the early 2000's because she spurned the attention of a muslim boy.

Was he muslim by faith or just muslim by name? Just because someone has a Muslim name, does not neccesarily mean he is a practicing Muslim by faith. A cultural ''muslim'' like cultural ''christians'' can do violent things outside of a religious context. If you read of an ''Eliot'' killing girls who rejected him, do you automatically connect his violent behavior to the religion in which ''Eliot'' is a common name?

That's a poor deflection.

If it were an isolated case, your argument would hold water. The fact remains however that where Islam exists these kind of inhuman acts occur. These are nit isolated stories either.

The problem is very simple; Fundamental Islam and sharia law teaches violence and revenge equates to holiness.

the muslim boy you spoke of did not act by Shariah. If he did, find me the ruling that permits boys to kill girls who reject them and we can figure out if he indeed acted ''islamically''. If not, you are arguing out of biased opinions.

Yeah well, that story ended up in the boy going to prison and the girl's family forgiving him. He testified he did it because she shamed him and his family in the presence of Allah. Correct islamic practice or not, he did it because he thought he was justified by the teachings of Islam.

His defence was that it was his religious right..

Then the boy was wrong and acted on his own. I read a news story of a christian woman kill someone because she thought God told her to. Can we apply your thinking to christianity?

btw a crazy person listening to psychotic voices is different to calculated murder justified in the name of faith.

By that argument, the muslim boy you spoke of could also be classified as ''crazy'' because he thought God had something to do with it. Its hypocritical how Christians always use the ''crazy'' argument each time one of their own kills someone. Yet, refuse to consider the possibility of ''crazy'' when a muslim kills someone.

a reply to: Shiloh7

It isn't just Muslims.



www.bbc.co.uk...

Even If someone does wrong the death penelty makes us no better then them.
The USA still has it also a so called Christian nation.
So lets not forget that the USA also kills people but at least they are doing it to people whom have done something wrong and not just fallen in love with someone.

originally posted by: luciddream
a reply to: lambs to lions

To me, they are just scared little boys that are afraid of the natural power and beauty of women.
The women of this earth should be protected and cherished for being the wives, mothers, and care-givers that they are. I don't know where I'd be without the women in my life.

The Anti-Feminist in me is trying to get out! i will try to keep it inside for this thread, but yeah lets not go there with the "women are pure angelic mothers that would not harm a soul".. i am sure it will derail if it becomes a gender bashing thread.

I understand, I'm not saying women are without fault. I'm saying they should be treated with the respect they deserve as equals to their male counterparts.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: lambs to lions

Exactly - and when was the last time we saw Mecca completely destroyed in a movie? I for one would relish seeing that, use

That scene was scripted for the '2012' movie. But the director wisely decided not to make it at the last minute. The fact that he showed the Vatican destroyed is a reflection of Americas approach to its own religion. Just because Americans celebrate the right to ''free speech'' to attack religious icons,figures and places, doesn't mean everybody else has to adopt such a mentality.

I wouldn't call it 'wise', I'd call it scared. What it actually reflected was the ability of the rest of the world to recognise a fantasy from reality - but I guess that's never been an issue for islam before, has it?

originally posted by: lambs to lions

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: lambs to lions

Exactly - and when was the last time we saw Mecca completely destroyed in a movie? I for one would relish seeing that, use

That scene was scripted for the '2012' movie. But the director wisely decided not to make it at the last minute. The fact that he showed the Vatican destroyed is a reflection of Americas approach to its own religion. Just because Americans celebrate the right to ''free speech'' to attack religious icons,figures and places, doesn't mean everybody else has to adopt such a mentality.

Do you not believe Free Speech is an inalienable right? Freedom of expression is something we should be born with. It is what helps keeps tyrants from ruling with an iron fist. If you want examples, open a history book and read about the Authoritative governments in Europe prior to the Renaissance and Reformation, and immediately afterwords.

free speech still has its limits. It is proven by the fact that you dont see holocaust jokes on tv and movies. If ''free speech'' entitles you to mock a religious figure, it should also entitle somebody else to mock a historical event...or at least express an alternate view of it, without ending up in jail or a destroyed career and life. Free speech = joke.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: pavil
it's part of Arabic culture more than the religion.

... and the culture is based on the religion. The two can't be separated. Saying 'it's the culture so don't blame the religion' doesn't cut it. It's all together in one hot mess. And anyone who isn't horrified by this is also a mess.

It's not the culture, it's the religion.

Even in quiet little New Zealand a young Muslim girl was set alight while at work in a shell service station in the early 2000's because she spurned the attention of a muslim boy.

Was he muslim by faith or just muslim by name? Just because someone has a Muslim name, does not neccesarily mean he is a practicing Muslim by faith. A cultural ''muslim'' like cultural ''christians'' can do violent things outside of a religious context. If you read of an ''Eliot'' killing girls who rejected him, do you automatically connect his violent behavior to the religion in which ''Eliot'' is a common name?

That's a poor deflection.

If it were an isolated case, your argument would hold water. The fact remains however that where Islam exists these kind of inhuman acts occur. These are nit isolated stories either.

The problem is very simple; Fundamental Islam and sharia law teaches violence and revenge equates to holiness.

the muslim boy you spoke of did not act by Shariah. If he did, find me the ruling that permits boys to kill girls who reject them and we can figure out if he indeed acted ''islamically''. If not, you are arguing out of biased opinions.

Yeah well, that story ended up in the boy going to prison and the girl's family forgiving him. He testified he did it because she shamed him and his family in the presence of Allah. Correct islamic practice or not, he did it because he thought he was justified by the teachings of Islam.

His defence was that it was his religious right..

Then the boy was wrong and acted on his own. I read a news story of a christian woman kill someone because she thought God told her to. Can we apply your thinking to christianity?

btw a crazy person listening to psychotic voices is different to calculated murder justified in the name of faith.

By that argument, the muslim boy you spoke of could also be classified as ''crazy''. Its hypocritical how Christians always use the ''crazy'' argument each time one of their own kills someone. Yet, refuse to consider the possibility of ''crazy'' when a muslim kills someone.

Off topic but;

A Muslim person who said 'God, told them to stone someone would qualify as crazy. After all, the claim is that Allah is Jehovah is Yahweh is the father of Jesus. God does not say such things, but the devil and psychological illness does.

A muslim or Christian who uses the bible or koran or any interpretation of their writings as justification to stone someone is just a nasty person who is using their religious fervor to justify acts that are not acceptable in the 21st century.

The punishment must fit the crime. And the motivation of the crime in the case of the OP is religious teaching based, not psychological impairment.

If on the other hand you are claiming there are a lot of mentally ill muslims out there, I don't think you'd find many who would disagree with you.......

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: lambs to lions

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: lambs to lions

Exactly - and when was the last time we saw Mecca completely destroyed in a movie? I for one would relish seeing that, use

That scene was scripted for the '2012' movie. But the director wisely decided not to make it at the last minute. The fact that he showed the Vatican destroyed is a reflection of Americas approach to its own religion. Just because Americans celebrate the right to ''free speech'' to attack religious icons,figures and places, doesn't mean everybody else has to adopt such a mentality.

Do you not believe Free Speech is an inalienable right? Freedom of expression is something we should be born with. It is what helps keeps tyrants from ruling with an iron fist. If you want examples, open a history book and read about the Authoritative governments in Europe prior to the Renaissance and Reformation, and immediately afterwords.

free speech still has its limits. It is proven by the fact that you dont see holocaust jokes on tv and movies. If ''free speech'' entitles you to mock a religious figure, it should also entitle somebody else to mock a historical event...or at least express an alternate view of it, without ending up in jail or a destroyed career and life. Free speech = joke.

Exactly! Just like if I mocked the prophet mohammed and said he was a child molesting pig raper and that allah is the name of a pagan idol, stolen for convenience, we could all have a giggle and move on.

Because we can't take this stuff too seriously or we will end up stoning people to death....oh, wait a minute...

originally posted by: lambs to lions

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Why is it that only Muslims stone women to death today?

They can't handle if their woman were to find another handsome. They aren't big enough to handle the truth. They like the secure domineering culture they contribute to.

the same applies to psychos like Elliot Rogers who killed people simply because they couldn't find a girlfriend. I already mentioned that some cultures take pregnancy outside of marriage as an EXTREMELY serious issue and deal with it violently OUTSIDE of a religious context.

@ markosity..........''case of the OP is religious teaching based, not psychological impairment''......no its a cultural thing. I already mentioned that some cultures (even non-muslim cultures) view pregnancy outside of marriage as an extremely serious issue. Just because some people shrug it off when their spouses are sleeping with somebody else or when their unwed teenage daughters announce they are pregnant or when their sons announce he is proudly homosexual ...does NOT mean other cultures have to live by that example.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
@ markosity..........''case of the OP is religious teaching based, not psychological impairment''......no its a cultural thing. I already mentioned that some cultures (even non-muslim cultures) view pregnancy outside of marriage as an extremely serious issue. Just because some people shrug it off when their spouses are sleeping with somebody else or when their unwed teenage daughters announce they are pregnant or when their sons announce he is proudly homosexual ...does NOT mean other cultures have to live by that example.

It also doesn't mean they should beat him and frankly, to estrange themselves from their own child because of something so trivial is just a filthy and godless act.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
@ markosity..........''case of the OP is religious teaching based, not psychological impairment''......no its a cultural thing. I already mentioned that some cultures (even non-muslim cultures) view pregnancy outside of marriage as an extremely serious issue. Just because some people shrug it off when their spouses are sleeping with somebody else or when their unwed teenage daughters announce they are pregnant or when their sons announce he is proudly homosexual ...does NOT mean other cultures have to live by that example.

But it does not give the other cultures the right to murder people because of such things either. We live in a pluralist society in the west. All of those things you mentioned are controversial here too.

The difference is that we have learned to live and let live, not live and murder anyone who lives in a manner we or our religion disagrees with.

originally posted by: lambs to lions

originally posted by: shapur
Stoning is a barbaric act done by a very few Muslim extremists in some remote places and it has been blown out of proportions by the western media for obviously biased intentions...Generalizing people based on the actions of a few is not wise and it is only used for propaganda purposes.

From Wiki:

The incidence of honor killings is very difficult to determine and estimates vary widely. In most countries data on honor killings is not collected systematically, and many of these killings are reported by the families as suicides and registered as such.[10][11] Although honor killings are often associated with the Asian continent, especially the Middle East and South Asia, they occur all over the world.[12][13] In 2000, the United Nations estimated that 5,000 women were victims of honor killings each year.[14] According to BBC, "Women's advocacy groups, however, suspect that more than 20,000 women are killed worldwide each year."[15] Murder is not the only form of honor crime, other crimes such as acid attacks, abduction, mutilations, beatings occur; in 2010 the UK police recorded at least 2,823 such crimes.[16]

...sounds like more than a few renegade crazies to me. Open your eyes.

So are rampant shootings,pedophilia,spousal abuse,co worker abuse,etc,etc, happening in the US and almost anywhere else,,and by your definitions all people living in these countries are guilty as charged and have to be labeled as barbaric and fanatic crazy extremists...Crazy fanatic people live in any culture ,anywhere,,some people just use them as an excuse to attack and accuse the certain ones that they desire.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
@ markosity..........''case of the OP is religious teaching based, not psychological impairment''......no its a cultural thing. I already mentioned that some cultures (even non-muslim cultures) view pregnancy outside of marriage as an extremely serious issue. Just because some people shrug it off when their spouses are sleeping with somebody else or when their unwed teenage daughters announce they are pregnant or when their sons announce he is proudly homosexual ...does NOT mean other cultures have to live by that example.

But it does not give the other cultures the right to murder people because of such things either. We live in a pluralist society in the west. All of those things you mentioned are controversial here too.

The difference is that we have learned to live and let live, not live and murder anyone who lives in a manner we or our religion disagrees with.

Exactly, I don't think everyone is really grasping this concept. People are being put to death for decisions they choose to make that aren't hurting anyone else. I don't care about differences in cultures. There are some natural rights that transcend differences.

The fact is that the Muslim nations are not even as pragmatic as the U.S. Most are dominated by the Islamic faith. This means that as a nation the over-whelming majority endorses this belief system. It is their way of life and it permeates their education and politics. I personally think it is a backwater, ignorant belief system that has no business existing in modern times. That's just my opinion. People can argue that there is or isn't differences between the true faith and the radical interpretation. But the actions of many speak quite clearly. And the inaction of most speak even more clear.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: pavil
it's part of Arabic culture more than the religion.

... and the culture is based on the religion. The two can't be separated. Saying 'it's the culture so don't blame the religion' doesn't cut it. It's all together in one hot mess. And anyone who isn't horrified by this is also a mess.

Only where Saudi Wahhabi's have exported it, is where things get muddled. That unfortunately is pretty much a large part of the Muslim World. There ARE Muslims who don't act like that. One poster mentioned Indonesia for example, that's A LOT of Muslims there. Northern Africa would be yet another place. It's Wahabbism and the export of Arabic roles (non roles really) for women that's the real problem. Take a look at countries before and after Saudi money poured in to build Mosques and Madrasses and see how the culture changed in those nations.

originally posted by: shapur

originally posted by: lambs to lions

originally posted by: shapur
Stoning is a barbaric act done by a very few Muslim extremists in some remote places and it has been blown out of proportions by the western media for obviously biased intentions...Generalizing people based on the actions of a few is not wise and it is only used for propaganda purposes.

From Wiki:

The incidence of honor killings is very difficult to determine and estimates vary widely. In most countries data on honor killings is not collected systematically, and many of these killings are reported by the families as suicides and registered as such.[10][11] Although honor killings are often associated with the Asian continent, especially the Middle East and South Asia, they occur all over the world.[12][13] In 2000, the United Nations estimated that 5,000 women were victims of honor killings each year.[14] According to BBC, "Women's advocacy groups, however, suspect that more than 20,000 women are killed worldwide each year."[15] Murder is not the only form of honor crime, other crimes such as acid attacks, abduction, mutilations, beatings occur; in 2010 the UK police recorded at least 2,823 such crimes.[16]

...sounds like more than a few renegade crazies to me. Open your eyes.

So are rampant shootings,pedophilia,spousal abuse,co worker abuse,etc,etc, happening in the US and almost anywhere else,,and by your definitions all people living in these countries are guilty as charged and have to be labeled as barbaric and fanatic crazy extremists...Crazy fanatic people live in any culture ,anywhere,,some people just use them as an excuse to attack and accuse the certain ones that they desire.

No, I'm saying that it's not okay to do those horrible things wherever you live. Bad people do bad things in America. The difference is, in America, it's not okay to abuse your wife.....or, to stone your daughter, or molest children. Those things are punishable by the laws, as well as condemned by the public. The facts show, that when it comes to women making decisions for themselves in Muslim countries they are putting themselves in danger.

Your examples are not the same as mine. Your refusal to acknowledge these atrocities says a lot about your programming.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
@

But it does not give the other cultures the right to murder people because of such things either

thats opinion. Just who decides who gets what rights? If malaysia decides to execute people for marijuana possession, can you judge them by the standards of a country where marijuana is completely legal. This thread is another example of people telling others how to deal with domestic issues.

a reply to: lambs to lions

Not once have any of the Muslims in this thread condoned this act.
I assume they live in western countries and they should know better.
I have had an ongoing thing with Taxi drivers around me If they tie a piece of black cloth on the back of their car they support Jihad.
The amount of drivers I have sent away because I call them out on it must be in the hundreds.
One thing though I have been to Jamia Masjid mosque in Bradford many times escorting a mentally ill fella to mosque and the Iman there is a really decent dude, he came to the UK 45 years ago and hates the fundamentalism in his religion. I have heard him say accept this country for what it is and integrate, he told me he owes his life to the good people in the UK, these types of Muslims are okay with me, ones whom accept the country they are in and accept people who are not in their religion.