Have you ever had a Crisis of Faith?

a reply to: AfterInfinity

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Proverbs 9:8
Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.

Proverbs 23:9
Do not speak to fools, for they will scorn your prudent words

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: AfterInfinity

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Proverbs 9:8
Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.

Proverbs 23:9
Do not speak to fools, for they will scorn your prudent words

Is this what I get for asking a sincere question? And you wonder why Christians get such flack on these forums.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

God resists the proud,

you have no desire to learn,

only to mock.

You didn't want to hear what I have to say because you wanted to be edified, you wanted to hear it so you could try and poke holes in it and demonstrate your "superior atheistic intellect"

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: AfterInfinity

God resists the proud,

you have no desire to learn,

only to mock.

And when he asks why you turned away, and you tell him I was too proud, do you think he will be satisfied with your efforts? Jesus spoke to thieves and scoundrels. What makes your time so valuable that you can't do the same?

You didn't want to hear what I have to say because you wanted to be edified, you wanted to hear it so you could try and poke holes in it and demonstrate your "superior atheistic intellect"

That's what science is all about. The quickest path to the truth is to try and destroy it. What is left standing cannot be doubted. If you are offended at my examinations, I cannot help but wonder at the integrity of your precious deity.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Exactly my point,

You did not ask in humble sincerity, seeking,

You asked as the Pharisees asked, in order to suit your own selfish desires:

6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him

They were asking Jesus questions in order to accuse Him, in the same way you're asking me questions in order to accuse me of delusion.

I'm privy to your games, and I'm not playing. You've been on these forums mocking Christ for 2 years, you've heard all I have to say.

originally posted by: godlover25
you've heard all I have to say.

I hope so, because you're taking this thread entirely off-topic.

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Exactly my point,

You did not ask in humble sincerity, seeking,

You asked as the Pharisees asked, in order to suit your own selfish desires:

6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him

They were asking Jesus questions in order to accuse Him, in the same way you're asking me questions in order to accuse me of delusion.

I'm privy to your games, and I'm not playing. You've been on these forums mocking Christ for 2 years, you've heard all I have to say.

I am asking questions in order to better understand your experience. What comes of it...I don't know. I have no explanations. But I'm certainly not willing to assume. And something as important as a god deserves very, very, very close scrutiny. If that makes you uncomfortable, I don't know what to tell you except: SCIENCE!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Have you ever had a Crisis of Faith?

Yes, but not in God, necessarily, but in the accuracy of the depiction of God in the Old Testament.
That made me have to rethink the whole thing and I am still processing it.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Have you ever had a Crisis of Faith?

Yes, but not in God, necessarily, but in the accuracy of the depiction of God in the Old Testament.
That made me have to rethink the whole thing and I am still processing it.

What outside of the testaments made you believe in a god, if I may ask?

a reply to: AfterInfinity

What outside of the testaments made you believe in a god, if I may ask?

A lot of stuff, and maybe more important to me than just things I read.
I'm kind of tired right now, to get into details, but they are things I have written about here on this forum.

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: schuyler

I was reared in a non-religious household, the only time I heard God or Jesus Christ were in the context of "awww g-dammnit!!!" or "Jesus F**** Christ!!*....

My entire family, both parents, brother, sister, and myself - staunch atheist.

I was staunchly atheist until the age of 19....

So much for that theory.

Oh and have you ever heard of C.S. Lewis or Lee Strobel?

Yes, I have. Have you ever heard of John P. Meier (A Marginal Jew in 4 volumes). He's a damn sight more erudite that Strobel's histrionics. The case of C.S. Lewis is interesting in this context. He once said he was "very angry at God for not existing" when he was in his brief "atheist" phase. That kind of says it all right there. He's angry at something that doesn't exist? How does that work, exactly? In any case, both your guys are "apologists" for Christianity, an apt term if there ever was one. They don't add anything to the argument one way or another.

Like I said originally, an atheist is in as much a "relationship" with God as a believer--just a more antagonistic one. It's a faith you can't even talk about without invoking God. You were told "God doesn't exist" your entire life. It made such an impression on you that you actually believe God talked to you. God never talked to you, though your subconscious might have. If you'd grown up in a Muslim country, you'd be telling us Allah talked to you.

One of the frequent sayings surrounding reincarnation is that "You become what you hate," something that may apply here. Madalyn Murray O'Hair, a noted vociferous American atheist, had a son who became a Baptist minister. Her views were so strident, her hatred of God so vehement, and she pushed him so hard that he became the opposite of what she wanted. When she learned of it she said, "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times ... he is beyond human forgiveness."

No doubt your parents are more reasonable than O'Hair, but the description of your childhood is eerily similar. No, your experience does NOT "disprove" the theory. "God" has been with you, in one form or another, your entire life. he's still there; you haven't shaken the idea at all.

Put it this way: You and your family were aTHEIST. You dropped the 'a'. Now you're a THEIST. Not such a big move after all.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Have you ever had a Crisis of Faith?

For anyone with a productive mind, it should be a daily occurrence.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinity

What outside of the testaments made you believe in a god, if I may ask?

A lot of stuff, and maybe more important to me than just things I read.
I'm kind of tired right now, to get into details, but they are things I have written about here on this forum.

I'd rather not riffle through your extensive history of posts for a few isolated examples of spiritual experiences. I can wait until you are rested and ready to rumble.

a reply to: godlover25

Oh and have you ever heard of C.S. Lewis or Lee Strobel?

I've heard of both.
Lee Strobel? Really?

I suggest you read more [than you have to date].

I have no opinion regarding C.S.Lewis - but when you reach for Lee Strobel???: NO. I protest. Vehemently. Snake oil, anyone?

a reply to: schuyler

Like I said originally, an atheist is in as much a "relationship" with God as a believer--just a more antagonistic one. It's a faith you can't even talk about without invoking God.

I disagree. I am insulting Santa Claus. I can imagine all the kids who would scream and cry and kick the floor in indignation, but Santa himself won't lift a finger or say a word in either defense or offense. Dead men don't say much. Especially if they were never alive to begin with.

Put it this way: You and your family were aTHEIST. You dropped the 'a'. Now you're a THEIST. Not such a big move after all.

Hardly. Big bad God is no longer there to play the Mafia curmudgeon, guarding your assets for a small fee or he'll take a chunk out of your hide for daring to ignore him. That victim mentality where you blame yourself for all the abuse is no longer present. That easy-to-rely-on system of selling a sliver of your soul for a moment's peace of mind is gone too. It's all on you, you and your personal integrity and strength. Personally, I feel it is a liberating position. I guess some people feel it's a little too liberating. I can imagine they'd feel as lost, small, and suffocated as a puppy abandoned in a New York subway.

a reply to: schuyler

Read GK Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" or "The Everlasting Man". The man was a brilliant Christian apologist, and utterly hilarious.

a reply to: calstorm

Once I finally admitted to myself that I no longer believed, it was the most amazing sense of relief. I felt more free. It was such a weight off my shoulders. I finally felt the lack of burden and joy that everyone told me I was supposed to feel as a believer and never did.

Wow. Thanks very much, calstorm, for telling us about it.

I understand exactly what you are saying. Relief.

a reply to: calstorm

You are one of the lucky ones. Some people are too uncomfortable with themselves and the world to ever let go of organized religion. There is a strength in relying upon yourself for security and well-being. I'm glad you embraced it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It was a slow "evolution" (if I can use that word) of thought that brought me to what I believe today, which has nothing to do with a god, the bible or religion.

Of course you can use that word!!

I understand your pov, I think.
Cheers.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Have you ever had a Crisis of Faith?

For anyone with a productive mind, it should be a daily occurrence.

Especially in recent years. And I don't see it getting any better.