Chinese Boat Attacks, Sinks Fishing Vessel, Vietnam Says

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

pretty much what I would expect - isn't it strange how " sprattay ilslands " threads provoke such different responses than " Falkland ilsands " threads from some people ?

a reply to: guohua
Dear guohua,

It is an honor to be able to speak with you again. I can understand what China is using as the basis for it's claim, and whether or not the world agrees with it, that is what is in the hearts of the people, and possibly in the leadership as well.

Obviously, it's causing fear and apprehension. We see Russia taking Ukraine and it is not difficult to see China being encouraged by the results. The US did nearly nothing about Ukraine (or Syria, for that matter), so it is difficult for me to see us getting involved.

What, in your opinion, is the best course for the world to take in this situation?

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Zaphod58

Previous claims don't give then the right to claim them now.

Same could be said of "New" Mexico for that matter.



China is the second largest economy in the world and growing. Of course they won't be allowed to lay claim to anything that used to be theres.



Says who? USA world police to the rescue…

Or says the nations that own the land now? It's hilarious US gets hated on while Russia annexes other countries and China steals land too.

The used to be occupied argument is valid IMHO

And since our allies (uh, US here) are getting shortchanged on resources that they can use, and effectively benefit U.S. as well because of their productivity....then the U.S. needs to support the global rules of international waters

China using violence to get oil, huh...I guess that's a game that's been played before...I know a country that's really good at it

Just thinking out loud here

a reply to: charles1952
My Friend Charles, How have you been these days.
I don't see your post as often as I once did. I hope you and your family are well.

My Home Land of China, Yes, I was Born and Raised Communist under Mao and I have Memorized Mao's Little Red Book as Instructed to as a Young Child.
To answer your question, and to be perfectly honest, China will not relinquish it's claims on the islands.
After all my years working in Beijing for different presidents and knowing the Military and their Hard Line on Losing Face!
China will not back down.

Do I believe this is Right, No. China needs to not only grow into this century financially but also China needs to accept international law.
I am an American Citizen now and I understand the world and the need of Nations to Compromise.
I wish there was a way, but we're talking about China, Many in China feel they've been considered 3rd class world citizens long enough and it's their turn to get a piece of the world pie.

My Friend, ETA: while I was typing this to you, my husband was on the phone to some Old, friends of ours in Beijing and getting their take.
They were not talkative at all, I can understand that.

I bet there's at least a trillion dollars worth of oil and gas involved.

I would be pretty sure the international banker cartels are bidding.

And I think China might have a case.

I read something a long time ago about all those islands being given back to China after Japan lost WW2.

And maybe something about Vietnam acknowledging China "ownership". Not sure if North or South Vietnam or the current Vietnam or who the authority was. France and England may have acknowledged also.

Just the same, it looks like banker oil & gas.

I bet Russia Rosneft and Gazprom would love to be there.

a reply to: guohua

Mongolia once had great worldly claims including a good deal of china,are the Chinese going to give that back due to historical claims? ancient Greece occupied a much larger spot as well as parts of asia and the middle east are we giving all that land and territory back to them? wars happen and have consequences usually loss of life and re drawing of borders.Chinese lost this land over the centuries but i think other nations have far better claims based on geographic location alone. guess we could fix it all by giving it back to the British sure they have more then a few "historical claims" in the region

a reply to: HanzHenry

eh historically the best counter to china from a multi nation coalition stand point is not bombs but to give them all heroin/opium in epic levels(not advocating use just citing historical example) tell they all get hooked,that seemed to knock them down a peg or two back in the day,so instead of sending in a patton or a mac arthur we send in Heisenberg with air dropped blue sky

en.wikipedia.org... war one of two

on a more serious note i don't think we(the USA) will be going to war over this issue not in the conventional sense,more likely we will arm the Muslim rebels that are causing all that chaos in parts of china we keep reading about and use them as an internal destabilization factor .china will keep prodding its neighbors and testing what it can get away with as it tries to emerge as a new global super power

originally posted by: xuenchen
I bet there's at least a trillion dollars worth of oil and gas involved.

I would be pretty sure the international banker cartels are bidding.

And I think China might have a case.

I read something a long time ago about all those islands being given back to China after Japan lost WW2.

And maybe something about Vietnam acknowledging China "ownership". Not sure if North or South Vietnam or the current Vietnam or who the authority was. France and England may have acknowledged also.

Just the same, it looks like banker oil & gas.

I bet Russia Rosneft and Gazprom would love to be there.

And maybe something about Vietnam acknowledging China "ownership".

YES, I think it was in the 1950's, let me look.

Fifty years ago, the People's Republic of China issued a declaration essentially claiming the entire South China Sea as an inland lake. Within days, on September 14, 1958, prime minister Pham Van Dong of North Vietnam sent a diplomatic note to his counterpart Chou En-lai, acknowledging China's claim. The motivation of the Hanoi communists was simple: they needed China's military support in the war against the US-backed South Vietnam.

However, the Hanoi communists had given away what wasn't theirs to give. The Geneva Accords of 1954 divided Vietnam at the 17th parallel. Both the Paracels and Spratly are located below the 17th parallel and legally belonged to South Vietnam. To this day, Beijing uses the Pham Van Dong note to support its claims over the islands. This document, which never had any legal force, is listed on the website of China's Foreign Ministry under a section titled "International recognition of China's sovereignty over the Nansha [Spratly] Islands".

But is it not a United Vietnam today? Still Not Right though.
link

Something just occurred to me to mention on this too if we're looking at Beijing taking old claims as basis for enforcement with strength.

They may have old claims on that whole sea and there may be something to the Communists making claim to it after World War II. I haven't researched that direction to say for certain.

However, if they win this little contest between many nations and the U.S. on the sidelines, it will encourage them, I believe. There is another Island with far more recent and, to make a post-seizure justification for the world, more compelling claims. Of course Formosa has another name, huh?

Yes, Taiwan, the Horror Stories I heard as a young school child of how the Americans breed and raised the Chinese for the food and to be their Slaves and Whores. In Middle school there was always talk by our school masters of the Liberation of Taiwan.
Taiwan was a daily subject and we were encouraged to write our own form of invasion plans by the time I was in High School.
OH,,, the Memories!
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Th Vietnamese fishing boat overturned after being rammed by another boat after it had hassled a Chinese fishing boat

*shakes head* some of you want WW3 so bad you would press the button without hesitation

BEIJING — Driven by ambitions to make China a great power, President Xi Jinping is staking his political authority on a huge task: overhauling the Chinese military, which is still largely organized as it was when a million peasant soldiers mustered under Mao Zedong. Mr. Xi wants a military that can project power across the Pacific and face regional rivals like Japan in defense of Chinese interests. To get it, he means to strengthen China’s naval and air forces, which have been subordinate to the People’s Liberation Army’s land forces, and to get the military branches to work in close coordination, the way advanced Western militaries do. China’s military budget has grown to be the second largest in the world, behind that of the United States, and the country has acquired sophisticated weapons systems. But Mr. Xi has told his commanders that is not enough. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
I'll give you a rough idea of how Beijing see's it's neighbors.
Sent to me by e-mail from a friend in China after our phone call.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Th Vietnamese fishing boat overturned after being rammed by another boat after it had hassled a Chinese fishing boat

*shakes head* some of you want WW3 so bad you would press the button without hesitation

I dont want it that bad, but realize it IS gonna happen. Better now than later, id rather fight it than my kids.

And, remembering how the Chinese treat Tibet, and whatever that Falun Gong thing is that i see at the table in Balboa Park.

I say Let us SMOKE China, double down. And the reason I would willingly go NANKING on them is simple and holds all the weight needed.
1. Chinese owning even one grain of American soil.
2. Chinese owning even one business in America, like some huge chicken outfit
3. Chinese owning a single house in Irvine, Detroit, or anywhere
*4. Chinese people improving their quality of life while ours is declining.. this alone is all the motivation I need to wipe China off the map.

How could America look our ancestors in the face knowing that we have allowed ourselves to allow any of the 4 things above to happen. Our ancestors would have not allowed ANY of that nonsense. And we shouldn't either. If we dont do it now, it may be too late in as short as 10 years from now.

If Vietnam isn't afraid of China why should the US/UK/AUS be, we come from people that DOMINATED the world like just yesterday

a reply to: HanzHenry

But if you use too many A-bombs....

Aren't you afraid of global warming ?

a reply to: HanzHenry

Do you have any idea what those Words mean to a Chinese person, My wife is in tears and as Mad as Hell after reading your totally ignorant post.
That was Completely uncalled for, you must be very young or you know nothing of WWII or both.
How Stupid.

And the reason I would willingly go NANKING on them is simple and holds all the weight needed

The pictures at this site I will not post here due to the fact, some people are sensitive to the death of Babie and women and the use of live people for Bayonet Practice.
1937 Nanking Massacre

Chinese at Nanking (now known as Nanjing) are being buried alive by grinning Japanese troops who are competing with each other to invent new and more horrible ways to kill Chinese whom they regarded as sub-human.

For six weeks, life for the Chinese in Nanking became a nightmare. Bands of drunken Japanese soldiers roamed the city, murdering, raping, looting, and burning at whim. Chinese civilians who were stopped on the street, and found to possess nothing of value, were immediately killed. At least twenty thousand Chinese women were raped in Nanking during the first four weeks of the Japanese occupation, and many were mutilated and killed when the Japanese troops were finished with them.

The Japanese troops were encouraged by their officers to invent ever more horrible ways to slaughter the Chinese population of the city. When the bodies of murdered Chinese choked the streets and the gutters ran red with their blood, the Japanese were forced to refine their methods of slaughter in the interest of preventing the spread of disease. Batches of Chinese civilians were rounded up and herded into slaughter pits. Here the grinning Japanese soldiers would either bury them alive, hack them to death with their swords, use them for bayonet practice, or pour petrol on the victims and burn them alive. The bodies of thousands of victims of the slaughter were dumped into the Yangtze River until the river was red with their blood.

The Rape

On December 13th, the Japanese Army attacked before dawn with about 50,000 troops. The 90,000 Chinese troops and half a million civilians, half of the original population, vastly outnumbered them. So the Japanese used deception and promised the Chinese troops fair treatment if they surrendered. Instead, the Japanese divided the Chinese into groups of two hundred and killed them in various areas around Nanking. They shot, beheaded, or used Chinese soldiers for bayonet target practice.

For months the massacre carried on, but the worst atrocities happened during the first six to eight weeks. There were live burials, mutilations, death by fire, death by ice, death by dogs, and death by rape. Women, pregnant and/or in labor, and girls, even if they were young children, and men could not escape the threat of rape. Killing the women after raping them became the norm for Japanese troops, and if they were not killed, they were used as ‘comfort women’ in the brothels set up by the Japanese military in the hope that the brothels would decrease incidents of rape of local women, to contain sexually transmitted diseases, and to reward soldiers that returned from battle.

Link

"It would be all right if we only raped them. I shouldn't say all right. But we always stabbed and killed them. Because dead bodies don't talk ... Perhaps when we were raping her, we looked at her as a woman, but when we killed her, we just thought of her as something like a pig."

One eyewitness, Li Ke-hen, reported: "There are so many bodies on the street, victims of group rape and murder. They were all stripped naked, their breasts cut off, leaving a terrible dark brown hole; some of them were bayoneted in the abdomen, with their intestines spilling out alongside them; some had a roll of paper or a piece of wood stuffed in their vaginas"

Many young women were simply tied to beds as permanent fixtures accessible to any and all comers. When they became too weepy or too diseased to arouse desire, they were disposed of. In alleys and parks lay the corpses of women who had been dishonored even after death by mutilation and stuffing."

At wharves along the Yangtze River, tens of thousands of these prisoners -- up to 150,000 in all -- were massacred in cold blood. A typical order, issued to the 66th Regiment 1st Battalion on 13 December, read as follows:

Battalion battle report, at 2:00 [p.m.] received orders from the Regiment commander: to comply with orders from Brigade commanding headquarters, all prisoners of war are to be executed. Method of executed: divide the prisoners into groups of a dozen. Shoot to kill separately. ... It is decided that the prisoners are to be divided evenly among each company ... and to be brought out from their imprisonment in groups of 50 to be executed. ... The vicinity of the imprisonment must be heavily guarded. Our intentions are absolutely not to be detected by the prisoners. Every company is to complete preparation before 5:00 p.m. Executions are to start by 5:00 and action is to be finished by 7:30. (Quoted in Yin and Young, The Rape of Nanking, pp. 110, 115.)

The Japanese held grotesque killing contests, including "a competition to determine who could kill the fastest. As one soldier stood sentinel with a machine gun, ready to mow down anyone who tried to bolt, the eight other soldiers split up into pairs to form four separate teams. In each team, one soldier beheaded prisoners with a sword while the other picked up heads and tossed them aside in a pile. The prisoners stood frozen in silence and terror as their countrymen dropped, one by one." (Chang, The Rape of Nanking, p. 85)

Atrocious tortures were also inflicted on the captive men. "The Japanese not only disemboweled, decapitated, and dismembered victims but performed more excruciating varieties of torture. Throughout the city they nailed prisoners to wooden boards and ran over them with tanks, crucified them to trees and electrical posts, carved long strips of flesh from them, and used them for bayonet practice. At least one hundred men reportedly had their eyes gouged out and their noses and ears hacked off before being set on fire. Another group of two hundred Chinese soldiers and civilians were stripped naked, tied to columns and doors of a school, and then stabbed by zhuizi -- special needles with handles on them -- in hundreds of points along their bodies, including their mouths, throats, and eyes. ... The Japanese subjected large crowds of victims to mass incineration. In Hsiakwan [along the Yangtze] a Japanese soldier bound Chinese captives together, ten at a time, and pushed them into a pit, where they were sprayed with gasoline and ignited." (Chang, The Rape of Nanking, pp. 87-88.)

Gendercide watch,
You have the Stomach for it,,, After two tours in Vietnam, I Don't.
Sorry O P not trying to go Off Topic or Dominate the thread.

Sorry, some how a double post.

a reply to: guohua

That poster is a huge troll and never has anything of value to contribute. Dont take it personally, some people just have worthless opinions.

a reply to: guohua

I'm OFFENDED!!!! I'M SHOCKED!!

THATS SO WRONG... thats so ignorant... thats reducing the world to...

I mean... thats actually more to europe than Prada and Hermes... we have Channel, Louis Vuitton, and Cartier too damn!