Elliot rogers and men who hate women

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

So many men get defensive when this subject comes up (samsamm9), as if women think that ALL men are asshats and that we are blaming men for our troubles. We don't and we aren't. It's just that all of us have most likely had to deal with some guy who thought he was entitled to take what he wanted from us..

Sadly very, very true.

When I was younger I couldn't walk out in London without a variety of anuses feeling they needed to tell my my hooters looked great, I had a nice ass, showing me their penis or grabbing at me, then bellowing that I was a 'lesbian, c*nt or bitch for not putting out for them (total strangers). Had to endure mutliple creeps following me, two attempted rapes (one of which ended hilariously) and and group sexual assault where half a dozen men ripped most of my clothes off me.

A subset of men do seem to think they are entitled to use women like kleenex. It's what happens when women have a lower status (how DARE she say no to the wonderful me).

Also hadfone guy throw a pint over me at a night club when I politely said I wasn't interested.

Sorry to hear you have experienced that.

I am just curious if you have ever worked retail? I worked retail for a few years on the floor, let me tell you I have heard every single one of these insults and had things thrown in my face for refusing returns or discounts. This was a weekly occurrence from men and women, though more women simply due to the demographics which hit up the shop. I even had punches thrown at me by a few ladies and a male shoplifter.

I can very much empathize with everything except the attempted rape, but I have been groped and hit on by disgusting strange women (and men) though.

As it was my job and only source of income at the time I had to put up with it or go hungry/homeless, at least on the street you can retaliate.



I disagree with the 'woman of lower status' accusation. The perception of lower status often comes from men and women using different methods of communication, especially in business and tech. Stereotyping men here, but when someone takes longer then we are used to to explain things while including details that aren't necessarily vital is often viewed as demeaning or (depending on their mood) incompetent/unsure. This also extends to the ridiculous 'ban bossy' campaign where women feel they are viewed negatively when being "assertive" without realizing that they still tend to go on and on and on before getting to the point. Male bossy bosses tend to say "get it done you #$%^" and send you off.

-FBB

originally posted by: FriedBabelBroccoli

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

So many men get defensive when this subject comes up (samsamm9), as if women think that ALL men are asshats and that we are blaming men for our troubles. We don't and we aren't. It's just that all of us have most likely had to deal with some guy who thought he was entitled to take what he wanted from us..

Sadly very, very true.

When I was younger I couldn't walk out in London without a variety of anuses feeling they needed to tell my my hooters looked great, I had a nice ass, showing me their penis or grabbing at me, then bellowing that I was a 'lesbian, c*nt or bitch for not putting out for them (total strangers). Had to endure mutliple creeps following me, two attempted rapes (one of which ended hilariously) and and group sexual assault where half a dozen men ripped most of my clothes off me.

A subset of men do seem to think they are entitled to use women like kleenex. It's what happens when women have a lower status (how DARE she say no to the wonderful me).

Also hadfone guy throw a pint over me at a night club when I politely said I wasn't interested.

Sorry to hear you have experienced that.

I am just curious if you have ever worked retail? I worked retail for a few years on the floor, let me tell you I have heard every single one of these insults and had things thrown in my face for refusing returns or discounts. This was a weekly occurrence from men and women, though more women simply due to the demographics which hit up the shop. I even had punches thrown at me by a few ladies and a male shoplifter.

I can very much empathize with everything except the attempted rape, but I have been groped and hit on by disgusting strange women (and men) though.

As it was my job and only source of income at the time I had to put up with it or go hungry/homeless, at least on the street you can retaliate.



I disagree with the 'woman of lower status' accusation. The perception of lower status often comes from men and women using different methods of communication, especially in business and tech. Stereotyping men here, but when someone takes longer then we are used to to explain things while including details that aren't necessarily vital is often viewed as demeaning or (depending on their mood) incompetent/unsure. This also extends to the ridiculous 'ban bossy' campaign where women feel they are viewed negatively when being "assertive" without realizing that they still tend to go on and on and on before getting to the point. Male bossy bosses tend to say "get it done you #$%^" and send you off.

-FBB

Well, the lower status observation comes from a familiarity with other cultures that just don't have a of culture of sexual abuse of women (verbal or other) and those that are worse than Europeans (Islamic and African). Cultures where women are matrilineal and female births are preferred jand women have an equal or dominant status just don't get the same level of grief as ours, and we aren't as bad are cultures where women are still basically property. Fundamentalist religions and abuse of women (all kinds) have a strong relation.

There's also the observation of primate behaviour: the males often do things that would be considered assault or sexual assault on junior female primates as a way of establishing dominance and maintaining a higher place in the social order. You don't really see males doing it to the higher-than-them status females in the group. Bullying of all kinds has a strong link to social status, and higher status individuals bully lower ones (any gender or species) as a way of demonstrating their dominance.

I am just curious if you have ever worked retail? I worked retail for a few years on the floor, let me tell you I have heard every single one of these insults and had things thrown in my face for refusing returns or discounts.

That's the customer feeling entitled to what they've asked you for, and perceiving you as lower status (some snotty till monkey vs paying customer) so it's okay to abuse you. Again a case of the 'how dare you refuse me'

I did work retail on a couple of occasions. Boy do people get abusive when their cards are declined.

Now I'm fat and middle aged, I get young blokes shouting things like 'get your fat old saggers out'. Funny how verbal abuse hasn't happened even once when my husband was with me in the past twenty seven years, so they must know it's unacceptable. Did happen once when he was literally just around a corner with about five of our male friends. As they walked up to the group of lads harassing me, I thought the kids (15/16 ish) were going to faint. A precious memory.

a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli

This is your opinion.

I don't find it offensive, but I do have a rather tough hide.

a reply to: Antigod

I'm curious - I know that matrilineanal societies have existed, but don't know of any currently surviving. I'd like to do some research into it. Referenece is you have them would be wonderful.

That said - most feminist are not seeking a matriarchical society whatsoever, but what is called a partnership society as delineated by Riane Eisler at: www.partnershipway.org...

Historically, according to the work of Ms. Eisler (see "The Chalice and The Blade") and Leonard Shlain (see "The Alphabet vs The Goddess") both with quite different theories, most culture was matriarchial and changed into a patriarchy about 6,000 years ago (each author cites different but, I believe, intertwined reasons).

Now it's time for a partnership culture where no sex (or color, etc) is dominant, but all are seen as being of equal value.

Wouldn't it be nice to be free from "The Boy's Code" and all that goes with it.

People will believe and regurgitate anything that's been fed to you won't you? My god. Do they even think anymore? The agenda is so goddamn obvious. *sigh*

Before I go on, a few requests, and I might give some insight of what's going on. But I have to be sure that you're open for it first.

1) Where is the evidence that he was part of the MRA?
2) Did he kill more men or more women?
3) Why does there seem to be another push for gun control?

a reply to: FyreByrd

I'm curious - I know that matrilineanal societies have existed, but don't know of any currently surviving.

These are the ones I can remember offhand:

Minangkabau, Indonesia

Goa used to be (not sure on current status)

Meghalaya (NE India), various related tribes are matrileneal.

You'll have to wiki others.

I suppose if inheritance and relationship is matrilenal, a woman's sexual behavior becomes way less of an issue as paternity of a child is a non-issue, and men don't need to be obsessively controlling of women to ensure the kid is theirs, for bloodline and honour. Less stress for the men as well, if you think about.

You might be interested in Peggy Sanday’s work, she studies and lists them while doing work on rape and culture. Interestingly enough she claims sex offences are just about unknown in matrilineal cultures. I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not, but that's what she says.

originally posted by: vasaga
People will believe and regurgitate anything that's been fed to you won't you? My god. Do they even think anymore? The agenda is so goddamn obvious. *sigh*

Before I go on, a few requests, and I might give some insight of what's going on. But I have to be sure that you're open for it first.

1) Where is the evidence that he was part of the MRA?
2) Did he kill more men or more women?
3) Why does there seem to be another push for gun control?

Well, My comments are based on reading the weiner's manifesto where he rants on about how much he hates young women, and the frat boys humping them. Basic hatred built on aggrieved entitlement (female) and jealousy (male).

After your kid being gunned down in the street you might understand why victims families want gun control. The media seem less stressed about this one though. Rodger would have gone on a killing spree with a knife if he hadn't got a gun. I doubt gun control would have made much difference here, if he didn't have one, I could see him sneaking into a girls dorm at night to throat slash.

a reply to: Antigod

Ok. Please remember. The feminism movement was brought forward by the Rockefellers. Watch this video, and you can confirm almost every statement in this video yourself on Wikipedia.




The MRA is the only thing that's truly challenging that movement, and they are slowly but surely gaining ground. They want to break the reputation of the MRA in time, because otherwise they will lose control. Not only of the feminist movement, but, they know that if people unite, they're finished.

As for gun control, it's no secret that the elites want a disarmed population, in order to have us into perpetual debt slavery.

originally posted by: igloo
a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli
If women felt safe in general they wouldn't feel powerless and angry. A lot of those magazines and sites are about women trying to find strength, albeit a bit misguided, in the face of weakness. Most have probably gotten hurt, and I don't mean rejection for dates, more like rape, violence or social abuse of some kind.

The whole female movement of "I don't feel safe, and i'm a victim" really drives me nuts because the reality is that women have higher standing in public social environments. You may not FEEL that way, but 9 out of 10 times a female will get assistance/help with an issue a lot quicker then a male will.

Case and point:

Here's a video that ran a social experiment on what the average person will do when they witness a male slipping something into a female's drink, compared to a female slipping something into a male's drink.

thefederalist.com... found this to be pretty interesting take on the matter for what its worth wont quote it as it all has to be read in context

a reply to: Shepard64

That misogyny was all a front. He was homosexual. All his affection anf hatred in his manifesto was aimed at men. You never know he ever had interest in a girl in his life until he raved about it to conceal his true sexuality at the end. That's why he lust killed and was so personal using hammers and knives rather than the impersonal killings of the 2 girls.

Its not just his mannerisms its subtext. Its written like a bad book but its self serving and an unreliable narrator.

Is it just me or do women not understand the power they have over men? I'll freely admit that any woman could probably seduce me if they know what they're doing. If she has nice...assets it makes it that much easier. It's no wonder some men become mysoginistic. Mem go out to pick up women for sex and the like. Wait, so do women. They're just not as open about it so they can later explain it away with a lie.

originally posted by: Antigod
a reply to: FyreByrd

I'm curious - I know that matrilineanal societies have existed, but don't know of any currently surviving.

These are the ones I can remember offhand:

Minangkabau, Indonesia

Goa used to be (not sure on current status)

Meghalaya (NE India), various related tribes are matrileneal.

You'll have to wiki others.

I suppose if inheritance and relationship is matrilenal, a woman's sexual behavior becomes way less of an issue as paternity of a child is a non-issue, and men don't need to be obsessively controlling of women to ensure the kid is theirs, for bloodline and honour. Less stress for the men as well, if you think about.

You might be interested in Peggy Sanday’s work, she studies and lists them while doing work on rape and culture. Interestingly enough she claims sex offences are just about unknown in matrilineal cultures. I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not, but that's what she says.

Thank you, I will look into the references - they sound facinating. Again thank you.

originally posted by: Echo3Foxtrot
Is it just me or do women not understand the power they have over men? I'll freely admit that any woman could probably seduce me if they know what they're doing. If she has nice...assets it makes it that much easier. It's no wonder some men become mysoginistic. Mem go out to pick up women for sex and the like. Wait, so do women. They're just not as open about it so they can later explain it away with a lie.

That is precisely the reasoning that Muslims use for covering their women with burkas as such - that men can't be expected to control themselves in the presence of women's assets. Men who can't control themselves, most can you know. Men have to be considered first, well 'cause they're men.

originally posted by: vasaga

What is the/a MRA? Men's Rights Association?????

What rights are they seeking?

Seriously, this is the first I've heard of this.

Is like about child visitation rights or what?

a reply to: FyreByrd

I never said men can't control themselves. I said women have power over men in that it is WAY easier for a woman to seduce a man than it is for a man to seduce a woman. Trust me, I've been down that road. Most women aren't easily persuaded by a mans charms as a man is by a womans.

Liken what I said to Muslims again....see what happens.... XD

a reply to: FyreByrd

Would you mind posting a clear definition of what you consider misogyny to be. I think it would really clear up the issue for many people here. You can read feminist websites and see it described as men feeling entitled to female attention, women feeling afraid of what you think men are going to do to you everyday, interrupting a woman speaking, saying, "but I am a man and I'm not like that."

Misogyny is defined by merriam-webster as the hatred of women.

I think one of the major hurdles the feminist movement has to get over is learning how to communicate and justify that everything they say is misogyny (basically everything) is misogyny or is motivated specifically by the hatred of women.

PS
If you have ever been to a feminist website you have heard the term MRA. There are several search engines such as startpage.com where you can look up their platforms.

Or you could reference my first post in this thread where I link to several websites which espouse both MRA and feminist ideology.

jezebel.com
salon.com
vox.com
feminist.org

All these websites can help outline the world view many of these folks have adopted in case there a folks who are interested in it.

Here are some MRA joints;
reddit.com/r/MensRights/
mensrights.com

-FBB

-FBB

a reply to: Antigod

Yes, but you have to link that to misogyny and explain their motivations entirely through the 'hatred of women' paradigm.

The entire movement is based on abstract wishy-washy "critical thinking" by jumping between race theory, social theory, gender theory, and whatever other sort of theory you want to throw in with it.

So far it comes across like this;

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

-FBB

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: vasaga

What is the/a MRA? Men's Rights Association?????¨

This should help you:
en.wikipedia.org...'s_rights_movement

originally posted by: FyreByrd
What rights are they seeking?

Equal rights for men and women, rather than privilege for women only (like feminism).

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Seriously, this is the first I've heard of this.

Most people haven't. It's quite new. Note that there are also quite a few women that are in support of the Men's Rights Movement. One of the more 'popular' ones is Karen Straughan, also known as girlwriteswhat. If you have the time, I highly recommend watching her videos. It's easier to hear this stuff from a woman than from a man, since men are generally called misogynist at the first sign of resistance to feminism.

It starts to get interesting after 3 minutes. Here's her introduction video:

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Is like about child visitation rights or what?

That is part of it, but it goes a lot deeper than that.

I have not posted on ATS in a long time, however in the case of Elliot Rodgers and his involvement with the Pick Up Artists community, I do feel that I have something to say. I am a similar age to Elliot before his death (I'm 21), likewise when I began to attend University three years ago I was a virgin and hopeless with women. That was something I felt a great deal of shame about, like I was not a 'real' man.
About a year and a half ago I began to be involved in the Pick Up because of a desire to change my life and ways with women, since then I have totally transformed. What irritates me is the way in which the MSM has totally misrepresented the Pick Up scene. In actual a fact it teaches:

- Women are not in the wrong to reject you, ever. It is your own doing if a girl is not attracted to you, never her fault.

- It does not matter what you look like. You don't have to be a bodybuilder to be attractive, you just need to show the same kind of confidence and 'sex worthiness' that other males display.

- Pick Up community usually does it best to encourage overall happiness and well being, It is repeatedly emphasized that you should not allow your desire for women to consume your life. Other things are equally important.

I really do feel for Elliot's victims, it is not a woman's fault if she is not attracted to you. The reports in the media that say Pick Up communities teach anything other than that are, in my experience, totally and utterly wrong.