California Shootings Elliot Rodger Conspiracy.

I find it interesting that all direct requests for evidence are met with pages of deflection and justification as to why evidence is not needed, along with personal attacks.

Very, very interesting psychology indeed.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: cestrup
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

Devils advocate here: What if it were written by someone else? What if it were used by the media to cut snippets out of and paint Rodgers in any hue they chose? This is purely if this were all a giant scam. So, hypothetically, of course it could be fake and there may be motive to do that.

The original was emailed to nearly 30 people. Itd be pretty hard to 'cut snippets' and not get called on it.

I fail to see what point you're trying to make here. Why couldn't they use parts of his manifesto because it was emailed out to 30 people?

a reply to: cestrup

Have you even read the manifesto? A simple yes or no would do.

originally posted by: cestrup

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: cestrup
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

Devils advocate here: What if it were written by someone else? What if it were used by the media to cut snippets out of and paint Rodgers in any hue they chose? This is purely if this were all a giant scam. So, hypothetically, of course it could be fake and there may be motive to do that.

The original was emailed to nearly 30 people. Itd be pretty hard to 'cut snippets' and not get called on it.

I fail to see what point you're trying to make here. Why couldn't they use parts of his manifesto because it was emailed out to 30 people?

It seemed to me that you were saying that it was manipulated after it was sent out.

if the original is in the hands of that many people, someone would notice the manipulation.

If that is not what you were saying, i apologize for the miscommunication.

a reply to: TKDRL

It's just problematic specifically because of what autism is. That's my point.

To comment on your clarification, I would say that, regardless of what mental illness any of these young men have had, we'd still have that same issue that you very astutely raise in that not everybody in that certain subset of people do this kind of thing. It's extraordinarily rare even within any given subset of people. To put into perspective, this graph of rampage killers from wiki puts the number of total rampage killers at 25 for 2000 and up. Statistically speaking, the incidence of these kind of individuals within the US is 0.000008% of the total population. That's really small.

Let's break it down to groups:

Antisocial personality disorder has 1% incidence in the US. That's 3,190,000 in the US. If that were the mental illness that these perpetrators suffered from, then the incidence of rampage killers for that group would be 0.0008%. That's still a super small number.

Autism has the same prevalence in the US (believe it or not--it's really subject to hype)--1%. The incidence would be the same as antisocial personality disorder if autism were the root--0.0008%. Super small number still.

Statistically speaking, those capable of doing such things as any of the rampagers have done is incredibly small against even an incredibly small subset of a population. They are freaking rare and thank god for that. Ergo, I agree with you. It doesn't make sense to pin it down on a specific mental illness (which doesn't pan out as the diagnoses that have been done on the surviving perps are varied from schizophrenia to bipolar to psychopathy/megalomania and so on) or necessarily strip freedoms from any of these groups unless there is something very specific to an individual that warrants such an intervention.

In the case of Rodgers, he shouldn't have been let off so easy after his youtube videos and I think that is more of a problem with the intelligence of our police departments more than anything else. He duped them hard.

And looking at it logically---what is a plausible theory that would involve Richard Martinez being part of a hoax?

There was no Richard Martinez or Christopher Martinez and he was just an actor? And the video in the deli was manufactured? All the people in the deli including those working were just actors? Or part of the conspiracy and keeping quiet? Everyone who is reporting to have known Christopher Martinez are just actors? Or people who are part of the conspiracy?

Or Richard Martinez and Christopher Marinez are real and the father knew that his son was going to be shot? And had a prepared speech ready? Or "they" gave him instructions about what to say after the kid was killed and he went along because...?

I just don't see any possible explanation that is even remotely in the realm of possibility.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
I find it interesting that all direct requests for evidence are met with pages of deflection and justification as to why evidence is not needed, along with personal attacks.

Very, very interesting psychology indeed.

Yes there is a video and manifesto, how hard is it for anyone wishing to, to write a manifesto, I could write you one now.

Elliot was known to the police for his behavior online and his views, he was known to his friends as a bit of an oddball so perfect as a patsy.

The video was uploaded about a week before this incident and was then taken down. It could easily have been the ramblings or fantasy of a boy taken down, then put back up just before the supposed shootings.

I ask again for you to provide evidence that he killed these people, the roads of California have cameras every couple of miles to catch speeders how come none captured a shot of him, shops, and businesses are all equipped with CCTV inside and out where are those pictures, where are the cell phone pictures or videos. It is not about the lack of evidence on my part, it is the lack of evidence on your part to say why you won't even consider this to be a bit fishy?

Just a quick question for you are there any conspiracies you do give any credence to?
Do you always believe everything that the mainstream media say?

a reply to: DEV1L79

Like I said, there are plenty of eyewitness accounts out there. That alone is FAR more evidence than has been presented in favor of a conspiracy (since there has been none).

Again, why the multiple posts worth of deflection? Either you have evidence to back your claims, or you dont.

If you do, post them.

if you dont, admit it (or keep deflecting).

Just a quick question for you are there any conspiracies you do give any credence to?

Yes, those that have evidence to back them. For the record, ive never even said I dont belive there might be a conspiracy here. I simply require SOMETHING in the line of evidence before ill jump on the bandwagon.

Do you always believe everything that the mainstream media say?

the only reason i even quote this is to point out the foolish and fallacious nature of your even asking it.

Seems to be the go-to for you guys though. If you are a critical thinker who actually weighs all the information available, you are swallowing everything the media says.

Please, get better. This tactic is old and tired.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

no

a reply to: DEV1L79

He made a few videos--not just A video. In each of the videos, he is consistent in themes--how unfair the world is to him, how girls don't like him, expressing isolation, and more. His "day of retribution" video was put up the day before his attack--not a week before.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

There are CCTVs online of the incident. Why are you asking where the CCTVs are when you obviously haven't looked to see if they exist? Why do you feel like the murder of people should be televised for the nation to behold without any consideration to the victim's surviving loved ones perhaps not wanting to see that moment?

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: DEV1L79

If you like evidence so much try showing me real evidence that this event even happened apart from a newspaper story.

Well, let's look at this rationally then. How many people would have to be in on the conspiracy for this not to have happened? How many people would have to keep quiet about this or tell lies to keep the secret?

You have all the law enforcement officers involved, all their friends and family, you have all the other girls at the sorority, al their friends and family, you have all the other people who were injured in the rampage, all their friends, all their family, the ER workers, all their friends all their family, all the friends and family of the people who died, everyone who was working at the hospital, all their friends and family, everyone who was at the deli and all their friends and family, all the many people working for the media who covered this, all their friends and family..

And that's just what I can come up with in thirty seconds...

EDIT: For example, the injured were taken to Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital. If that did not actually happen, how could that be kept secret? Everyone who worked there from medical staff down to janitors would have figured out something was wrong.

How do "they" make stuff like this up?
LINK.

It is like most conspiracies, there are a few big wigs involved and then the information trickles down, people believe what they are told.

A good example of this is imagine a bank with all it's workforce.

You have the bank tellers, they just know enough to do their job, they have no idea what the managers knows,
The managers just know enough to do their job they have no idea what the company head knows,
The company head just knows enough to do his job, he has no idea what the president of the company knows,
The company president just knows enough to do his job, he has no idea what the owner of the bank knows.
They all do their job with hardly anyone knowing what is actually going on. If the manager tells the teller something they will believe them, if the company head tells the manager something the teller and the manager will believe them and so on.

A few well placed lies and deception and it is very easy to fool a lot of people.

a reply to: DEV1L79

I'm curious.

Which other news items from mainstream media on Friday do you think were made up?

a reply to: DEV1L79

So all the doctors, nurses, cops, and witnesses who saw this and the aftermath first hand didnt actually see it? Who told them what they saw?

originally posted by: cestrup
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

no

Thanks. You should if you are really interested in this case.

a reply to: DEV1L79

So, here's question for you that maybe you'll deign to answer: do you think that all of the shootings over the last few years have been lies?

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: DEV1L79

So all the doctors, nurses, cops, and witnesses who saw this and the aftermath first hand didnt actually see it? Who told them what they saw?

I have not heard any accounts form doctors or nurses or many others to answer that but if it is anything like Sandy Hook, the paramedics, police and doctors were turned away from the scene and it was cordoned off.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: DEV1L79

So, here's question for you that maybe you'll deign to answer: do you think that all of the shootings over the last few years have been lies?

No as I said earlier. I am not saying everything that happens is a conspiracy and lots of bad things do happen in the world from crazed idiots with guns to terrorist attacks, but after a while you start to be able to decipher the real from the fake. The link below is a list of mass shootings that have occurred in the USA just in 2014 alone, and I had not even heard of one of them. So why am I hearing about this one so much?
Mass shootings in 2014

More Mass Shootings

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: DEV1L79

I'm curious.

Which other news items from mainstream media on Friday do you think were made up?

I am not sure, I don't pretend to have any of the answers, from the very start of this post I have just said there is something not right about this one it smells fishy to me. I still think this, it is all to fake the whole thing.

a reply to: DEV1L79
Are you claiming no one was working on any victims at the hospital? That no cops saw the eprson they were exchanging fire with? That all eye witnesses were actors?


Please, stop bringing up sandy hook. This is not sandy hook, and it doesnt serve as evidence. Lines like "if its anything like sandy hook" are a total and complete deflection.

originally posted by: DEV1L79
but after a while you start to be able to decipher the real from the fake.

Do you think your gut feeling is sufficient to say if something is real or fake?

If you do I have very bad news for you.

Don't forget you're dealing with the hypothetical here. If you claim to know what's real or not you cross a dangerous line.