California Shootings Elliot Rodger Conspiracy.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: cocointelpro

As I had mentioned before, this was regarding your original statement which created the impression that burden of proof only relies on the accused, when this is not the case. Please re-read what I have posted.

I don't follow...I repeatedly asked for evidence of your claims, stating time and time again that the burden of proof is on the accuser. You responding by citing reverse onus, about what, exactly? again, either you are lying and were using it to defend your lack of evidence, or you were bringing up a completely irrelevant legal term to deflect from your lack of evidence.

So which is it?

As I had previously mentioned, my reverse onus claim was a separate argument from my argument and evidence that is the manifesto, and how it made mention to western cultural values that are imposed onto the youth.

The reverse onus claim, as you will read, and other posters will read, was concerning your original claim which created the impression that that burden of the proof is on the accuser in all cases, when this isn't true. I will repeat myself over and over again like a broken record for all to hear, so that everyone is aware of your inability to understand this very simple concept.

I had suggested that I did not excuse crime, rather the discussions presented here are to investigate the cause of crimes, which is true

what does this have to do with your claim that fraternal societies were the cause of this crime? again, your words were: "cause of the crime".

This was just a general statement concerning the nature of our argument, which has to do with how the influence of fraternal organizations and their culture may influence these sorts of crimes.

"Yes" is a statement that merely acknowledged that to remove fraternal organizations and organizations like them ***could*** result in idea of removing the notion of seeking/attracting a mate. You cannot make the inference that you made from one word "yes".

I asked you a direct question,. You answer, without hesitation, "Yes". Yet now you say I cant infer that your 'yes' meant 'yes'.

Again, you are talking in circles.

again, your petty turn of phrases will get you no where. the statement "yes" did not infer what you claim, I had never had that intention. Rather my intention of using the word "yes" was to suggest that the removal of these organizations could result in a decrease the cultural standards which deem seeking/attracting a mate a priority. Had you asked for an elaboration on the statement yes, I would of provided you with an explanation like the one here.

You cannot put words in my mouth. That response "Yes" can be widely interpreted, especially considering I had not mentioned anything else beyond the statement "yes". If you wish to get into a linguistics argument with a law student, go ahead.

I asked you a direct, yes or no question, to which you answered "yes".

A direct question does not require a direct answer, answers to direct questions may come in any form

Law student? I highly doubt it.

Once again, with the petty put downs, mark of the losing side. I think most people will conclude from the posts that I have made who the real legal expert is here

when I had mentioned that you dont have mass killings / psychotic shooters like you have in western society, in other cultures, this was an explicit reference to the difference in the nature of violent acts in other cultures, and their different cultural influences that are different than western society, which I made an example with the suicide bomber.

Here, I'll quote these your own words for you again:

"they clearly don't have mass killings or psychotic shooters like you have in western society"
you went on to defend it by asking:

" Please....give me an example....you cannot say such shootings, such crime is to the same degree as it is in America "

Which, by the way, I provided.

Had you provided an example where a shooter in the middle east or elsewhere committed a shooting our of response of notions of rejection from a fraternity or sorority - then that would of been the same degree. You did not provide examples to that degree

So, all of that said, Id like to ask one more time, very directly: Do you have any evidence to back up ANY of the claims of conspiracy, masonic fault, or anything else in this thread?

Once again, I had claimed that the issues presented here with fraternal organizations and there culture may be extrapolated to society in general. I will sound like a broken record for you and all to see, so we all see the truth. Either you don't understand english, or are choosing to ignore points I have made over and over again

And please, if you are going to cite the manifesto, include direct quotes, not blanket statements.

The manifesto is available for all, other posters have already made the inferences I have made. I certainly don't need to make them to you. I don't argue my points for you, I argue my points for ATS to judge.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: DEV1L79

Lets not assume he was gay. If he was gay I seriously doubt he would have gone to that sorority house and killed those young girls.

If we turn this into a gay issue than that will open another can of worms.

Fact is he never had a girlfriend and was obviously too intimated to talk to girls. Not unusual at all for a man his age, being intimidated that is. Problem is he was already being treated for his mental health issues, already posted videos and Facebook messages about his desire to kill, but nothing was done about it. Just a quick chat with some Sheriffs.

The kid wasn't gay, he was straight and disturbed.

He could be really confused himself. He was a good looking lad, had money, fame (through his dad), everything told him he should have a string of girls... Only he liked guys... And maybe to deal with it he externalised, blaming the girls... I dunno, guess we'll never know.

On topic... I don't see conspiracy with this one, some rich kid troubled teen loses it... Yeah not surprised at all...

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: cestrup

You know, I saw that reply coming too.

I bet if the shooting you referred to happened today, and it got onto ATS, someone would say that it was fake and the woman you claimed you "knew" was an actress, and the father a bad actor.

Denial is a terrible thing, even if it is fashionable.

Denial of what, do you refer.

To the fact that certain bizarre stories get smashed into our faces to make changes in our society that always make it worse?

The only denial we see here, is from people who cannot see deep enough into the reality that we are being had by MORE than human natures, greeds, but by something far deeper.

It is YOUR kinds of ideals that let the world fester in this, while getting mad at those who are finding DIFFERENT ways to see things, that can ACTUALLY lead to something changing for the better.

No, the only real danger we have here is to believe everything hook line and sinker as the programmed have always done.

It is getting BEYOND sickening that we still have these attitudes that we can fix something in a system like this, one that has NOT been built by humanity, but that does everything to frame it that we are the sick individuals, responsible for every dam piece of crap, and that it is the faults of normal patterns , behaviours that we somehow have stumbled ourselves upon.

I really wish you could somehow realize that by pretending that everything is as it says, you are condemning the rest of us to the slave system of fear and sorrow that you feel is being done to us by our NATURAL HUMAN STATE.

Some of us intend to break out of this pattern, but we know the ones that are NOT, and it is the ones who cannot handle emotions, the ones who cannot see conspiracies for what they are, because they cannot even understand THEMSELVES.

The real GRIP needs to be gotten by exposing the real situation this planet has itself in, and that façade is EVER PROTECTED by the cries of the tortured, well TOO BAD, we have had enough of your unknowingly ridiculous claims that only retarded STUPID HATEFUL PEOPLE are responsible for NOT BELIEVING YOUR SYSTEM,

It is time to break out from under the constant defense of the LIARS, THIEVES, ACTORS, MONEY GRUBBERS , that always get to tell us how it is, the defense that comes from those who actually don't know, is the most grave of all.

I couldn't agree more. Thankfully the system is coming apart in many ways, we can see how these tragic events are exploited, we see how silly it is to deny the need for investigation, the minority who wish to deny, we see how this has to do with the willful ignorance of law enforcement, and how this may even have to do with the negative effects of profiteering pharmaceutical industry. How smart is it to trust human health to an industry which profits from illness and death ? Humanity is waking up to these painfully obvious truths, and they will not be denied.

a reply to: Starling
Id like to point out that most of these aren't questions, rather they are personal opinions, most of which would require some sort of evidence to give them any weight.

1. The Youtube channel and videos he is always the same age and acts like they were just all made back to back.

From what I have read, most were made within a few month period of time, so it is perfectly reasonable that he didn't change much in looks.

2. The Facebook Page seems fake, again always the same age (apart from 1 photos when he is younger) It looks like it has just been made and multiple snaps taken (they can doctor the dates on FB).

"seems fake". Based on the pictures. Im not sure how to even respond to that....is there any part of it that you can point to that actually backs the claim? That all he posted were recent photos is not that out of the norm for users.

3. The photo on Facebook with Elliot sitting on a seat with his dad is definitely doctored, just look at the shading and colours on Elliot and his face compared to the other 2 in the picture

"definitely". That's a bold statement. Why not take it and put it in photoshop to find out for sure?

4. Can a less than medium sized slim guy stab and kill 3 men all at the same time in the same apartment without being taken down? Where were the other two when the first was being killed and probably screaming out, stabbing is a pretty intimate way to kill someone and can take a lot of time, some people who have been stabbed 20 or more times can still survive, the main cause of death through stabbing is bleeding out which can take time. Why not just shoot them?

The simple answer? Yes, a medium sized guy can. The long answer is that he used a hammer first.

5. The manifesto he supposedly wrote is screaming anti gun laws. If you read it you can see there is an anti gun thread running all the way through it.

Is it not logical to think that, perhaps, if his manifesto screams anti gun laws as you claim, that he had a personal agenda against guns? There are plenty of anti gun people out there. Not all are part of a government conspiracy.

6. Why are we seeing this manifesto? Why are we seeing his videos? why is his Facebook page not shut down? This a murder inquiry, but the public has access to Elliots Facebook, Youtube and videos, a manifesto that is police evidence, in any other murder inquiry all his social media would be closed and evidence would be tightly concealed until after the inquest. (they have closed them now that this question has been raised)

We are seeing the manifesto because he emailed it to around 15 people. It only takes one to leak it to the media.

7. The grieving father of one of the victims the next day, coming and doing a press conference for gun control. The majority of the murders were done with knife attacks. it is highly suspicious how Elliot even legally had guns with his mental history and background in California which has the tightest gun control laws in the country. And another thing, there could be reasons for this, but with a name like "Martinez", isn't it

He's a grieving father, with obvious personal feelings about gun control. That hardly indicates a conspiracy.

Im not going to even speak on the silly nationality comment.

8. Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said on Sunday that he wanted to bring back gun-control legislation that was proposed after Sandy Hook but which fell in the Senate.

Ever heard the saying "never let a good tragedy go to waste". Again, that a senator is jumping on this as propaganda doesn't indicate a government wide consipiracy.

9. Many eyewitnesses have said there were 2 people in the black BMW. This was the same with Sandy Hook and the Batman shootings were eyewitnesses said they saw multiple murders not just a lone gunman.

I hadn't heard this, so I cant comment on it until I see more.

10. The connection between, Colorado Batman shootings, Sandy Hook and this one. Sandy Hook is mentioned in the Batman films with a line saying "See how we can bring it down". Elliot's father worked on the film The Hunger Games, the author of the hunger games lives in Sandy Hook. all just coincidence, all have the agenda for tighter gun control

All what have an agenda for gun control?

originally posted by: DEV1L79

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
So, we're 16 pages in. Has anyone presented even a single piece of evidence that backs the idea of a conspiracy?


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hmmmm

10 Questions. (I know you said the parents released the manifesto, but it was police evidence, the police should not have allowed this)

1. The Youtube channel and videos he is always the same age and acts like they were just all made back to back.
2. The Facebook Page seems fake, again always the same age (apart from 1 photos when he is younger) It looks like it has just been made and multiple snaps taken (they can doctor the dates on FB).
3. The photo on Facebook with Elliot sitting on a seat with his dad is definitely doctored, just look at the shading and colours on Elliot and his face compared to the other 2 in the picture.
4. Can a less than medium sized slim guy stab and kill 3 men all at the same time in the same apartment without being taken down? Where were the other two when the first was being killed and probably screaming out, stabbing is a pretty intimate way to kill someone and can take a lot of time, some people who have been stabbed 20 or more times can still survive, the main cause of death through stabbing is bleeding out which can take time. Why not just shoot them?
5. The manifesto he supposedly wrote is screaming anti gun laws. If you read it you can see there is an anti gun thread running all the way through it.
6. Why are we seeing this manifesto? Why are we seeing his videos? why is his Facebook page not shut down? This a murder inquiry, but the public has access to Elliots Facebook, Youtube and videos, a manifesto that is police evidence, in any other murder inquiry all his social media would be closed and evidence would be tightly concealed until after the inquest. (they have closed them now that this question has been raised)
7. The grieving father of one of the victims the next day, coming and doing a press conference for gun control. The majority of the murders were done with knife attacks. it is highly suspicious how Elliot even legally had guns with his mental history and background in California which has the tightest gun control laws in the country. And another thing, there could be reasons for this, but with a name like "Martinez", isn't it odd that the victims father neither looks or sounds the least bit Hispanic?
8. Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said on Sunday that he wanted to bring back gun-control legislation that was proposed after Sandy Hook but which fell in the Senate.

"Obviously, not every kind of gun violence is going to be prevented by laws out of Washington," Blumenthal told CBS. "But at least we can make a start.

“I am going to urge that we bring back those bills, maybe reconfigure them, center on mental health, which is a point where we can agree that we need more resources to make the country healthier and to make sure that these kinds of horrific, insane, mad occurrences are stopped.”

9. Many eyewitnesses have said there were 2 people in the black BMW. This was the same with Sandy Hook and the Batman shootings were eyewitnesses said they saw multiple murders not just a lone gunman.

10. The connection between, Colorado Batman shootings, Sandy Hook and this one. Sandy Hook is mentioned in the Batman films with a line saying "See how we can bring it down". Elliot's father worked on the film The Hunger Games, the author of the hunger games lives in Sandy Hook. all just coincidence, all have the agenda for tighter gun control.

And again...(in case the last one got wiped out too).
Use your intuition, guys. It's not that difficult if you pair it with some common sense reasoning.

a reply to: cocointelpro

You gotta be kidding me. This will be my last reply to this troll bait.

As I had previously mentioned, my reverse onus claim was a separate argument from my argument and evidence that is the manifesto, and how it made mention to western cultural values that are imposed onto the youth.

The reverse onus claim, as you will read, and other posters will read, was concerning your original claim which created the impression that that burden of the proof is on the accuser in all cases, when this isn't true. I will repeat myself over and over again like a broken record for all to hear, so that everyone is aware of your inability to understand this very simple concept.

Considering I never once said "the burden of proof is on the accuser in all cases", but, rather, claimed that the burden of proof is on the accuser when making claims such as have been made in this thread, you are still contradicting yourself.

You aren't even good at this.

again, your petty turn of phrases will get you no where. the statement "yes" did not infer what you claim, I had never had that intention. Rather my intention of using the word "yes" was to suggest that the removal of these organizations could result in a decrease the cultural standards which deem seeking/attracting a mate a priority. Had you asked for an elaboration on the statement yes, I would of provided you with an explanation like the one here.

No matter how you try and spin it, you were asked a direct, yes or no question. To now claim that saying "yes" to a yes or no question does not mean yes is downright silly.

Had you provided an example where a shooter in the middle east or elsewhere committed a shooting our of response of notions of rejection from a fraternity or sorority - then that would of been the same degree. You did not provide examples to that degree

Way to move the goalpost on that one. Lets try again:
Can you provide any evidence of ANY mass shooting other than this one that was committed out of response of rejection from fraternities or sororities? For the record, its amazing how much your claims are changing with each post.

Once again, I had claimed that the issues presented here with fraternal organizations and there culture may be extrapolated to society in general. I will sound like a broken record for you and all to see, so we all see the truth. Either you don't understand english, or are choosing to ignore points I have made over and over again

Once again, your claims do not equal evidence. English.

The manifesto is available for all, other posters have already made the inferences I have made. I certainly don't need to make them to you. I don't argue my points for you, I argue my points for ATS to judge.

All you have to say is no. That's it. "NO, I don't have any evidence". Pretty easy sentence, shouldn't be so tough for you to type.;

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: Starling
Id like to point out that most of these aren't questions, rather they are personal opinions, most of which would require some sort of evidence to give them any weight.

these opinions contain reference to very real evidence, such as facebook pages and objects in real life

1. The Youtube channel and videos he is always the same age and acts like they were just all made back to back.

From what I have read, most were made within a few month period of time, so it is perfectly reasonable that he didn't change much in looks.


This would require a further investigation to the shooters youtube and facebook history. You can't make these baseless speculations. The OP's original statement makes clear reference to evidence here

2. The Facebook Page seems fake, again always the same age (apart from 1 photos when he is younger) It looks like it has just been made and multiple snaps taken (they can doctor the dates on FB).

"seems fake". Based on the pictures. Im not sure how to even respond to that....is there any part of it that you can point to that actually backs the claim? That all he posted were recent photos is not that out of the norm for users.

It certainly can be suspicious if a facebook profile is just recently made, taken with multiple photos, and the shortly after something happens to the creator of that profile

3. The photo on Facebook with Elliot sitting on a seat with his dad is definitely doctored, just look at the shading and colours on Elliot and his face compared to the other 2 in the picture

"definitely". That's a bold statement. Why not take it and put it in photoshop to find out for sure?

I don't think the poster needs to. What would photoshop prove? That you can alter photos? I think we know this

4. Can a less than medium sized slim guy stab and kill 3 men all at the same time in the same apartment without being taken down? Where were the other two when the first was being killed and probably screaming out, stabbing is a pretty intimate way to kill someone and can take a lot of time, some people who have been stabbed 20 or more times can still survive, the main cause of death through stabbing is bleeding out which can take time. Why not just shoot them?

The simple answer? Yes, a medium sized guy can. The long answer is that he used a hammer first.

No, this isn't reasonable. In most cases, 3 men with their lives in danger would subdue one medium sized person, even if he had a hammer

5. The manifesto he supposedly wrote is screaming anti gun laws. If you read it you can see there is an anti gun thread running all the way through it.

Is it not logical to think that, perhaps, if his manifesto screams anti gun laws as you claim, that he had a personal agenda against guns? There are plenty of anti gun people out there. Not all are part of a government conspiracy.

This is the only point where I will say that its difficult to prove if he had intentionally created a manifesto with an anti-gun agenda. This would require more investigation

6. Why are we seeing this manifesto? Why are we seeing his videos? why is his Facebook page not shut down? This a murder inquiry, but the public has access to Elliots Facebook, Youtube and videos, a manifesto that is police evidence, in any other murder inquiry all his social media would be closed and evidence would be tightly concealed until after the inquest. (they have closed them now that this question has been raised)

We are seeing the manifesto because he emailed it to around 15 people. It only takes one to leak it to the media.

This is a good point, evidence in most cases is closed to the public. The fact that its all public would suggest that those pieces of evidence in this case may be used for political purposes.

7. The grieving father of one of the victims the next day, coming and doing a press conference for gun control. The majority of the murders were done with knife attacks. it is highly suspicious how Elliot even legally had guns with his mental history and background in California which has the tightest gun control laws in the country. And another thing, there could be reasons for this, but with a name like "Martinez", isn't it

He's a grieving father, with obvious personal feelings about gun control. That hardly indicates a conspiracy.

As I had mentioned, grieving people are often taken advantage of, for selfish gain. Please read one of my previous posts

Im not going to even speak on the silly nationality comment.

8. Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said on Sunday that he wanted to bring back gun-control legislation that was proposed after Sandy Hook but which fell in the Senate.

Ever heard the saying "never let a good tragedy go to waste". Again, that a senator is jumping on this as propaganda doesn't indicate a government wide consipiracy.

True, it merely illustrates how politicians exploit tragedy to pursue political agendas. disgusting.

9. Many eyewitnesses have said there were 2 people in the black BMW. This was the same with Sandy Hook and the Batman shootings were eyewitnesses said they saw multiple murders not just a lone gunman.

I hadn't heard this, so I cant comment on it until I see more.

10. The connection between, Colorado Batman shootings, Sandy Hook and this one. Sandy Hook is mentioned in the Batman films with a line saying "See how we can bring it down". Elliot's father worked on the film The Hunger Games, the author of the hunger games lives in Sandy Hook. all just coincidence, all have the agenda for tighter gun control

All what have an agenda for gun control?

I will admit this is a weaker point reliant on coincidence. However it's certainly interesting, regardless

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: cocointelpro

You gotta be kidding me. This will be my last reply to this troll bait.

Once again, mark of the losing side - labeling the opponent. Good riddance to ya!

As I had previously mentioned, my reverse onus claim was a separate argument from my argument and evidence that is the manifesto, and how it made mention to western cultural values that are imposed onto the youth.

The reverse onus claim, as you will read, and other posters will read, was concerning your original claim which created the impression that that burden of the proof is on the accuser in all cases, when this isn't true. I will repeat myself over and over again like a broken record for all to hear, so that everyone is aware of your inability to understand this very simple concept.

Considering I never once said "the burden of proof is on the accuser in all cases", but, rather, claimed that the burden of proof is on the accuser when making claims such as have been made in this thread, you are still contradicting yourself.

I had made the statement that you created the false impression that the proof is on the burden in all cases. This isnt the same as me outright claiming that "you said the burden of proof is applicable in all cases"

You aren't even good at this.

Sign of the losing side - petty put downs once again!

again, your petty turn of phrases will get you no where. the statement "yes" did not infer what you claim, I had never had that intention. Rather my intention of using the word "yes" was to suggest that the removal of these organizations could result in a decrease the cultural standards which deem seeking/attracting a mate a priority. Had you asked for an elaboration on the statement yes, I would of provided you with an explanation like the one here.

No matter how you try and spin it, you were asked a direct, yes or no question. To now claim that saying "yes" to a yes or no question does not mean yes is downright silly.

The statement that you had provided did not necessarily require a mere "yes" or "no" response. It could of easily been elaborated upon had I chosen to. Instead, I chose to leave it as that for the time being in the event you wished for me to further explain as to why I chose to respond yes, which I fully did in a previous post

Had you provided an example where a shooter in the middle east or elsewhere committed a shooting our of response of notions of rejection from a fraternity or sorority - then that would of been the same degree. You did not provide examples to that degree

Way to move the goalpost on that one. Lets try again:
Can you provide any evidence of ANY mass shooting other than this one that was committed out of response of rejection from fraternities or sororities? For the record, its amazing how much your claims are changing with each post.

My claims never changed, you merely misconstrue statements to create that false impressions. You just never seemed to grasp the obvious elaboration that i meant when i stated "to the same degree". This was never about proving that other shootings occur because of such rejection, although in this case that may be a factor, rather it was proving that western cultural values contribute to these sorts of shootings. This is clearly the case in many shootings in America.

Once again, I had claimed that the issues presented here with fraternal organizations and there culture may be extrapolated to society in general. I will sound like a broken record for you and all to see, so we all see the truth. Either you don't understand english, or are choosing to ignore points I have made over and over again

Once again, your claims do not equal evidence. English.

They certainly do when they are explicitly mentioned in the main evidence, which is the manifesto - which is in english - which you cant seem to understand!

The manifesto is available for all, other posters have already made the inferences I have made. I certainly don't need to make them to you. I don't argue my points for you, I argue my points for ATS to judge.

All you have to say is no. That's it. "NO, I don't have any evidence". Pretty easy sentence, shouldn't be so tough for you to type.;

That is the evidence. The manifesto. It clearly makes reference to social standards of western society, and sororities. you cant deny this. Everyone reading this can easily conclude this, most posters have, except YOU!

originally posted by: Starling

originally posted by: DEV1L79

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
So, we're 16 pages in. Has anyone presented even a single piece of evidence that backs the idea of a conspiracy?


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

hmmmm

10 Questions. (I know you said the parents released the manifesto, but it was police evidence, the police should not have allowed this)

1. The Youtube channel and videos he is always the same age and acts like they were just all made back to back.
2. The Facebook Page seems fake, again always the same age (apart from 1 photos when he is younger) It looks like it has just been made and multiple snaps taken (they can doctor the dates on FB).
3. The photo on Facebook with Elliot sitting on a seat with his dad is definitely doctored, just look at the shading and colours on Elliot and his face compared to the other 2 in the picture.
4. Can a less than medium sized slim guy stab and kill 3 men all at the same time in the same apartment without being taken down? Where were the other two when the first was being killed and probably screaming out, stabbing is a pretty intimate way to kill someone and can take a lot of time, some people who have been stabbed 20 or more times can still survive, the main cause of death through stabbing is bleeding out which can take time. Why not just shoot them?
5. The manifesto he supposedly wrote is screaming anti gun laws. If you read it you can see there is an anti gun thread running all the way through it.
6. Why are we seeing this manifesto? Why are we seeing his videos? why is his Facebook page not shut down? This a murder inquiry, but the public has access to Elliots Facebook, Youtube and videos, a manifesto that is police evidence, in any other murder inquiry all his social media would be closed and evidence would be tightly concealed until after the inquest. (they have closed them now that this question has been raised)
7. The grieving father of one of the victims the next day, coming and doing a press conference for gun control. The majority of the murders were done with knife attacks. it is highly suspicious how Elliot even legally had guns with his mental history and background in California which has the tightest gun control laws in the country. And another thing, there could be reasons for this, but with a name like "Martinez", isn't it odd that the victims father neither looks or sounds the least bit Hispanic?
8. Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said on Sunday that he wanted to bring back gun-control legislation that was proposed after Sandy Hook but which fell in the Senate.

"Obviously, not every kind of gun violence is going to be prevented by laws out of Washington," Blumenthal told CBS. "But at least we can make a start.

“I am going to urge that we bring back those bills, maybe reconfigure them, center on mental health, which is a point where we can agree that we need more resources to make the country healthier and to make sure that these kinds of horrific, insane, mad occurrences are stopped.”

9. Many eyewitnesses have said there were 2 people in the black BMW. This was the same with Sandy Hook and the Batman shootings were eyewitnesses said they saw multiple murders not just a lone gunman.

10. The connection between, Colorado Batman shootings, Sandy Hook and this one. Sandy Hook is mentioned in the Batman films with a line saying "See how we can bring it down". Elliot's father worked on the film The Hunger Games, the author of the hunger games lives in Sandy Hook. all just coincidence, all have the agenda for tighter gun control.

And again...(in case the last one got wiped out too).
Use your intuition, guys. It's not that difficult if you pair it with some common sense reasoning.

No kidding. You made excellent points on the whole. I am only left wondering how much they pay people to fail at criticizing legitimate allegations. All I'm thinking is American Water Army.

All I see and read is a very disturbed individual. Yes psychological problems are real.

Perhaps people are keen to disprove someones mental health issues and claim false flag as it makes them feel safer about their own state of mind.
You cannot watch that video without seeing a disturbed individual.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
All I see and read is a very disturbed individual. Yes psychological problems are real.

Perhaps people are keen to disprove someones mental health issues and claim false flag as it makes them feel safer about their own state of mind.
You cannot watch that video without seeing a disturbed individual.

Quite true. We cannot find solace in the superficial claims of false flag events. Rather we must critically examine these events, and ask ourselves how can individuals come to this state of mind? What brought them there? I believe that the effect of pharmaceutical drugs may of been a factor here, as it had been proven that many previous school shooters were also on pharmaceutical drugs.

www.cchrint.org...

I would not say that pharmaceutical drugs are to be solely blamed here however. I would rather say that these drugs altered the thought process for the shooter and their perception of their social environment. So these cases are really contingent on social expectations of their social environment. I would argue if the shooter was in another social environment with different social expectations being imposed onto them, the outcome would of been different. Had the shooter been in a middle eastern environment, with middle eastern social expectations, perhaps he would of lashed out in a different manner. In all cases, I would not negate the negative effects of pharmaceutical drugs, as so often famously mentioned in well known TV commercials.

Take a look at this...

sfbay.craigslist.org...

I believe this may shed some light on his pathology.

"My Name is spelled, like this" Why would someone sane even go there? (Crisis Actor) And yes, looking at the video's, this boy has problems. He is not grown up, maybe a late bloomer from all the fluoride he has consumed from birth? Who knows????s/f

a reply to: opethPA

When did I say everything was fake? I am simply saying gather all evidence from all sides, be patient, and dont jump to conclusions.

The not jumping to conclusions part obliviously applies to BOTH sides. Which people seem to be forgetting.

a reply to: SubTruth

Another poster who fails at reading comprehension.

I do not fall in love fast. That is the entire point i was making in my previous posts.

Free speech? When did I ever tell anyone they can't talk about this subject? The only person here to limit freedom of speech and what topics can be discussed is the site owner. Same thing happened with Sandy Hook, and the same thing will happen here as well.

Because this case stinks to high heaven, and it will be investigated whether someone is offended or not.

Truth does not fear investigation.

I don't have cable so this is new to me and forgive me for not reading the whole thread yet so not sure if this is mentioned. After googling mountains of skulls and rivers of blood I came across a forum from 2010 where this was said. Don't know if it amounts to anything but here it is...
www.throneofskulls.com...

This again.

Even with all the media sensationalism that accompanies every shooting of this nature, think about how many people in this country own firearms.

Think about how many people in this country suffer from mental illness. To be honest, I'm kind of surprised this doesn't happen more often.

I'm all for owning firearms. I live with my wife and child, and want to eliminate a threat quickly, God forbid it happens.

All I'm saying is, I think there'd be more occurrences if anyone was staging anything. Until a way is found to better monitor the possibility of a mentally ill person purchasing a firearm without infringing on any rights, this will continue.

a reply to: Revelations29

When a mass shooting happens there is always a thread saying it is BS and it is either made up or staged with actors etc.
Every single one.
Why can't people accept people sometimes lose it and go nuts?.
Tell me why this stinks to high heaven? some people on ATS go looking for conspiracies when there are none.
Oh and the guy stopped taking his medication so don't blame the meds. (not you just everyone).

What the hell is wrong with you people? Why do you all feel the need to make EVERYTHING into a conspiracy? Why can't you just accept that horrible tragedies like these occur in our society? Is it because it doesn't go along with your pro-gun agenda? I think so.

To make a 'funny song' out of a tragedy is absolutely ridiculous. Also, making accusations that the killer was 'acting' and that the father was 'acting' are just asinine and completely unfounded. The killer was known to have mental problems (these actually exist, not a conspiracy) which would explain his illogical thought process specifically about women.

It's very sad how people feel the need to try and make life more interesting by turning everything into some sort of mystery that must be solved by deep examination. Accept that we live in a screwed up society due to our nation's reactionary thought process (for the most part)

I hope you also gain some sort of empathy and realize that you live in a real world rather than some fantasy world. We should be making strides towards keeping these tragedies from happening rather than trying to make it out as 'fake' or a giant conspiracy.