California Shootings Elliot Rodger Conspiracy.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: EviLCHiMP

My prayers go out to those affected by this tragedy, conspiracy or not, good people are suffering because someone else didn't respect human life.

My prayers have been added to yours. But we differ in that I feel allowing lies to stay hidden is never good.

Searching for truth when it may be hidden is a good thing not a bad thing. I have found in my search for truth untold interlocking connections that actually scare me to death. The web of hidden, covered worship of something so strange in its desires I have not been able to bring myself to write up all I have found not even for my self, it is too big and it scares me when I look to long.

Still we will not accomplish proving beyond doubt to anyone that something deep and sinister is acting in the world in ways that most people will dismiss as chance.

Love is truth also.

This is quite true. Besides actually getting evidence and testimony concerning conspiracy in cases like this, the very nature of people will reveal who is not on the side of humanity, who is more likely to be committing crimes against society and humanity in general. Genuine love backed up by genuine notions of humanity - understanding, compassion, empathy, those who can discern deception with a genuine love for truth and knowledge, these notions will separate those who are part of the human race, and those who pull it backwards. There's really no need to prove conspiracy, the types that may be behind allegations as mentioned here will reveal themselves.

FYI his youtube channel has been taken down but his google plus page is still up.
plus.google.com...

The last video was posted at 9:17pm and the first 911 call was recorded at 9:27 (according to wikipedia)



From his apartment on Seville Road to the first stop was 1 mile away (roughly)

In defense of the guy who said "its not in our nature to commit such acts",

I will stand by you.

Take a human from birth. The analogy of being born into a white room. Depravity from our stand point but an experiment you and I can imagine. We have all the tools needed to become jealous, angry, hateful, spiteful and harmful to others.
If not provoked and never felt, without the right ingredients to draw them out of a person, would they ever manifest themselves?

How would we know what death is if we have never seen anybody die?
How would we know jealousy if everybody was capable of sharing?
How would we become thoughtless if everybody was courteous to each other.
How would we act out anger or hate when no one has acted that way towards each other?

Humans are poked and prodded daily with negativity. If you have nowhere to turn or nobody to at least try to understand you, there is no antimatter to your madness. Turn off your television, screw fairytales...(my opinion), fix your diet...get off your meds. Share positive stories at work, don't regurgitate the negative nightly news.


Be well!

a reply to: Starling

Yeah all you have to do is look at the name of the user posting and you know which posts to not even bother reading. They are good at identifying themselves.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: redeyeblue
It is more scary to me reading these posts than any mentaly disturbed kid, people here see a conspiracy in every corner of their lives. With NO real evidence to back up these wild claims, they trample on the victims graves with not a shred of remorse as to the tragedy that occured. Either your all 14 year old kids with limited intelligence, or your in dire need of help yourselves.

Seconded. This is disgusting - people died but those here see a conspiracy.

People can die and there can also be a conspiracy, I don't understand what you are saying? If someone dies no conspiracy?

So, we're 16 pages in. Has anyone presented even a single piece of evidence that backs the idea of a conspiracy?


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

hmmmm

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: JudgeEden

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: JudgeEden
a reply to: InhaleExhale

A forum like this is one of the LAST places that should enforce any type of political correctness.

The site owners disagree....

And I disagree with the site owners...

yeah. See how far that gets you.

It may not get me far, but I don't really care. What do you expect me to do? Alter my views so I may not get moderated? Please.

Not to mention, I am allergic to political correctness. I despise it.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
So, we're 16 pages in. Has anyone presented even a single piece of evidence that backs the idea of a conspiracy?


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

hmmmm

One does not need evidence to be suspicious, only a hunch; hence the investigation to gather evidence. But then, if evidence was found, would you accept it? I would think not.

originally posted by: kix
I bet meds are involved in this guy rampage to oblivion.... poor society

He says he didn't take the meds given to him by psychiatrists but he was heavily into body building meds according to reports.

www.mirror.co.uk...

a reply to: JudgeEden

One does not need evidence to be suspicious, only a hunch; hence the investigation to gather evidence. But then, if evidence was found, would you accept it? I would think not.

That question seems like a deflection from the fact that none has been presented.

Its fine to be suspicious. Seems some people dont understand, though, that the burden of proof is on the accuser.

way to lazy to start a thread, and don't want to derail this one at all, but in my goofin' around i stumbled upon suzanne collins, sandy hook resident, presumably author of hunger games, which i know next to nothing about, and possibly knew nancy lanza, and then elliot rodger here, and his daddy, who just happens to have been an asst. director on the hunger games, and........never mind.

originally posted by: circuitsports
What stinks is that the father blames laws when his child was killed with a gun in a gun free zone and gun control advocates need exactly this kind of mental instability to prove that everyone should be screened and that much tougher standards be put in place.

They say they aren't going to come for your guns but the awb did exactly that it made legally purchased guns illegal they just didn't come to your door an physically take them. Cheaper to wait at gun ranges for people who aren't aware and then jail and fine them.

Martinez said his son died because Congress had failed to act after a mentally ill gunman killed 26 people in December 2012 at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

www.amny.com...

Concerning the comment regarding that proof is reliant on the accuser, In cases involving reverse onus, the accused must disprove an imposed presumption. This means that the accused must present evidence proving that they did NOT commit the crime.

So that's to say that the burden DOES NOT rely on the accuser to present evidence in all cases. In reaction to the number of shootings in Toronto and as part of his 2006 election campaign, Paul Martin proposed amending s. 515(1) of the Criminal Code so that there would be a reverse onus in bail proceedings for those accused with gun-related crimes. Besides this example, the reverse onus has been used in other cases.

The case presented here in the United States also involves guns. I certainly feel that from such allegations as suggested here in this thread, that the reverse onus provision may be arguably used...in Canada. It would seem that this is something highly protested in the United States, as it would involve violating certain constitutional rights. Just remember that common law, which is what American law is based on, may only apply rules which allow that violation in relevant cases. In other words, the reverse onus does not remove constitutional rights for all cases, only cases where there was a relevant, previous case that had used reverse onus.

In any event, I merely wish to highlight that not in all cases of law, does the burden of proof rely on the accuser. There are cases in the world where the burden of proof relies on the accused that they DID NOT commit the crime.

I've seen some views in here that I consider wrong, so I'll bring them to the light.

First off, to say this is a conspiracy is wrong. A father just lost his child, and he's angry. No one is able to tell him how he should react to this.

Second off, this is not about getting laid. It doesn't matter what he said in the video or his manifesto or the number of forum posts he made on the subject. If you honestly think this is about a kid still being a virgin and he went nuts, you're wrong.

I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a doctor of any sort, but it seems he wanted acceptance, not just from girls, but from people.

Though, he seems to be, from watching the videos, a narcissistic sociopath. The kid was insane, and the world is better off without him. The only shame is he took six lives before taking his own.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
So, we're 16 pages in. Has anyone presented even a single piece of evidence that backs the idea of a conspiracy?


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

hmmmm

10 Questions. (I know you said the parents released the manifesto, but it was police evidence, the police should not have allowed this)

1. The Youtube channel and videos he is always the same age and acts like they were just all made back to back.
2. The Facebook Page seems fake, again always the same age (apart from 1 photos when he is younger) It looks like it has just been made and multiple snaps taken (they can doctor the dates on FB).
3. The photo on Facebook with Elliot sitting on a seat with his dad is definitely doctored, just look at the shading and colours on Elliot and his face compared to the other 2 in the picture.
4. Can a less than medium sized slim guy stab and kill 3 men all at the same time in the same apartment without being taken down? Where were the other two when the first was being killed and probably screaming out, stabbing is a pretty intimate way to kill someone and can take a lot of time, some people who have been stabbed 20 or more times can still survive, the main cause of death through stabbing is bleeding out which can take time. Why not just shoot them?
5. The manifesto he supposedly wrote is screaming anti gun laws. If you read it you can see there is an anti gun thread running all the way through it.
6. Why are we seeing this manifesto? Why are we seeing his videos? why is his Facebook page not shut down? This a murder inquiry, but the public has access to Elliots Facebook, Youtube and videos, a manifesto that is police evidence, in any other murder inquiry all his social media would be closed and evidence would be tightly concealed until after the inquest. (they have closed them now that this question has been raised)
7. The grieving father of one of the victims the next day, coming and doing a press conference for gun control. The majority of the murders were done with knife attacks. it is highly suspicious how Elliot even legally had guns with his mental history and background in California which has the tightest gun control laws in the country. And another thing, there could be reasons for this, but with a name like "Martinez", isn't it odd that the victims father neither looks or sounds the least bit Hispanic?
8. Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said on Sunday that he wanted to bring back gun-control legislation that was proposed after Sandy Hook but which fell in the Senate.

"Obviously, not every kind of gun violence is going to be prevented by laws out of Washington," Blumenthal told CBS. "But at least we can make a start.

“I am going to urge that we bring back those bills, maybe reconfigure them, center on mental health, which is a point where we can agree that we need more resources to make the country healthier and to make sure that these kinds of horrific, insane, mad occurrences are stopped.”

9. Many eyewitnesses have said there were 2 people in the black BMW. This was the same with Sandy Hook and the Batman shootings were eyewitnesses said they saw multiple murders not just a lone gunman.

10. The connection between, Colorado Batman shootings, Sandy Hook and this one. Sandy Hook is mentioned in the Batman films with a line saying "See how we can bring it down". Elliot's father worked on the film The Hunger Games, the author of the hunger games lives in Sandy Hook. all just coincidence, all have the agenda for tighter gun control.

a reply to: cocointelpro

All that typing to justify your lack of evidence.

Remember, I have provided facts that refute your claims. You have provide d none to back them.

Either provide some, or admit you have none.

a reply to: alienreality

Hoo boy hope you're wearing your flame-retardant undies.

I'm with you 100% on your observations. This tragedy is yet another being used as an opportunity to not let a good crisis go to waste. The moment I saw the bearded guy squalling about gun control on the boob tube, my ears perked up.

The only thing that is 'off' is that lately on ATS some trying to make excuses for mass murders.

Saw it with Sandy Hook.

And now this.

People need to face the facts psychos walk among us.

There always have been.

There always will be.

With the population continuing to increase.

The increase 24/7 'news' and 'internets'

The sensationalism will be exponential.

a reply to: tacocat

Maybe he was "squalling" because he lost his son?.
Ever lose someone that close? Give the guy a break he has just lost his son...he has a right to be angry at what he sees help kill his son.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: cocointelpro

All that typing to justify your lack of evidence.

Remember, I have provided facts that refute your claims. You have provide d none to back them.

Either provide some, or admit you have none.

My post proved a legal example that not all cases rely on the accuser providing evidence. I don't need to provide evidence in all cases, in all arguments. My post had to do with showing you that not in all cases, evidence is required. Rather, the onus shifts onto you to disprove it, and your shallow arguments that only claim denial, without evidence are not strong enough. In stark contrast to the allegations, and arguments presented here by other posters, I certainly feel the reverse onus provision is applicable. How about we let ATS be the judge on this one? You had provided little facts, or evidence to refute my claims, and the claims of others, to begin with. So in this case of reverse onus, you lost.