Can we PLEASE continue to spread the message of "DENY IGNORANCE"

I noticed a while ago that the site motto of "Deny Ignorance" has all but dissappeared from the site after many of the reconfigurations of the graphical layout. Recently, the ATS logo has also shrunk. I assume this is all part of making the site more mobile friendly for those who surf using phones, tablets and such.

While I appreciate these changes have been made to evolve with technology and fast moving times, it is devolution to eliminate something that has been a pillar of our philosophy for many years.

From the "About ATS" page:

The simple yet effective motto of our membership is "deny ignorance", which signifies an effort to apply the principals of critical thought and peer review to the provocative topics covered within. More than a slogan, our members have embraced the motto as our collective cultural standard, demanding all to aspire to a higher standard. These simple two words have galvanized a broad membership that spans the spectrum from highly speculative conspiracy writers to staunch doubters. The result is a unique collaboration of diverse individuals rallying under this simple statement to learn from each other, discover new truths, and imagine new ideas that expand our minds.

This motto has life. It has purpose. It demands ATS members to think.

It is a state of mind.

It is a sense of purpose.

It is a statement against the paradigm.

It is a rage against the mindless status-quo.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it's a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.

It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the social disease of history. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.

Please reinstate this important message, especially for new members arriving to share their thoughts and opinions.

If space is a great issue, which seems the obvious culprit, put it before or after the vertical "abovetopsecret.com" each side of this post panel where it can be seen as a reminder of why ATS has remained so unique.

Cheers.

No.

One persons " Deny Ignorance " is another persons " Deny Ignorance ". We all use the term differently. We all take a different meaning from it.

What does " Deny Ignorance " really mean?

Regards

Spiro

The ability to Deny Ignorance is insignificant next to the power of a Youtube video.

originally posted by: Misinformation
The ability to Deny Ignorance is insignificant next to the power of a Youtube video.

or a block of copy pasted text, as long as it doesnt violate the unwritten rules on as to what topics CAN be discussed.

Well said Nerbot but you're swimming against a tide of crap here at ATS.
It's sadly not the same site we joined a few years ago and there's not a lot of point clinging on to that idea... ATS wants quantity and not quality.

That's my half glass empty answer.




Glass half full is

Yes... we the members must retake our site and clean it up, stop the crap and the stupidity, stop the extremism and Deny Ignorance.
ATS can once again be a site for intelligent and rational, civil discussions.

Conspiracy forum? Not any more. That place is gone...This is not the same place anymore to make that work. Look at how much proven hoaxes, nonsense and inaccuracies are on here now. You can learn how to fix your car, get a date, put up your art, photos and music, weapons, electronics etc...
and that's all well and good. A great one of a kind place.

But the part about denying ignorance? That doesn't seem to fit where you have people re-hashing over and over about why things aren't true as we've determined years earlier, responding to just a thread title...even when a couple posts down...even IN the original post...its said it was a hoax...its just all gone wacked.

The "DENY IGNORANCE" was for a place that once was singularly and topically different and pretty much for all things under the sun with conspiracy and political-historical events, sightings and theories. To deny ignorance with conspiracy, religious, psychological, news stories and political threads...is one thing. But now-a-days...we have a membership who will continue to do just the opposite: even over PROVEN and DIS-PROVEN subjects, historical events, issues and topics.

It used to be a place to get a good cross-reference for determining "truth" on conspiracy-type issues. Not any more. Now... if youre looking to fix your car's starter...or a few great recipes... don't get me wrong. Freedom of speech and topics is great. But in growing...the wide dispersion of diverse and unrelated topics has changed ATS...as time and interests should.

But, its not a just a conspiracy site as its implied in the name. Not anymore...

FYI: Perhaps this from Wikipedia can put it more plainly than I could: in part:


en.wikipedia.org...

"Above Top Secret is a news discussion forum created by Simon Gray in 1999 as a discussion board for conspiracy, and a site for general information about conspiracy topics...."

It obviously has become something far different and much more.....and you can't DENY THAT....
MS

a reply to: mysterioustranger

At this point, ATS has nothing at all to do with conspiracy/alternative subjects. It's a political echo chamber in which absolutely no discussion takes place because of certain elements vocally shutting down any intelligent conversation.

The problem I see right now is if you are a skeptic you get called a "shill" by the same people.
if people that believe in every conspiracy want a place to go IW/BIN or other sites like that will gladly you take you I am sure.

I go back to a thread a few months ago from a poster that claimed this amazing UFO experience and people were told they shouldn't question her, in so many terms, because she is a long time poster . What a bunch of BS that is. Deny Ignorance, unless you are responding to a vet here then embrace it.

You need both believers and skeptics to get to the truth, throw out the extremes and you will find the answers.

I made several comments about this as well, with the "new" ATS design this got removed, and I was surprised no one made a thread of this. I think it's very significant to where ATS is heading.

At this point if you are a skeptic your called a chill, if you believe there is a conspiracy you get boo'd by the community that your doubting the official story.

At this point I honestly believe the site owners just don't care anymore and are taking the buck while it lasts. Almost as if each site improvement is taking away the intellect step by step.

I hope that there will come a change again towards the original intent of this site, but I doubt it.

originally posted by: Spiro
One persons " Deny Ignorance " is another persons " Deny Ignorance ". We all use the term differently. We all take a different meaning from it.

What does " Deny Ignorance " really mean?

Regards

Spiro

Many people put personal truth forward as fact. Personal truth is subjective the facts are not. This is just one part of it.


Peer review is a huge part. Bravo OP I agree and hope the PTB at ATS get the message loud and clear. ATS is a family dinner table just on a larger scale.

a reply to: blupblup

Hi BB...

The glass is always full regardless of what it appears to contain. Anything you can't see is always filled with air.

I know that most of what you said above is probably true, and even I have lost the gravity to bring or keep me here sometimes.

originally posted by: Misinformation
The ability to Deny Ignorance is insignificant next to the power of a Youtube video.

Lol. Then you have to pretend to be blind as it happens quite often out here

originally posted by: Spiro
One persons " Deny Ignorance " is another persons " Deny Ignorance ". We all use the term differently. We all take a different meaning from it.

What does " Deny Ignorance " really mean?

Regards

Spiro

You just blew my mind! You are absolutely correct. From what I have witnessed there are those who think that anyone who buys the "official story" is failing to deny ignorance, while the other camp thinks the first is failing to deny ignorance because of their beliefs. I think that this is bound to happen when you are dealing with things that cannot be proven, although I have seen it occur even with things that have been proven. For instance there are those who believe the earth is flat. I think most would believe it has been "proven" that the earth is not flat.

So instead of promoting this motto, we should eliminate it in my opinion. It has turned into a battle cry in totally the wrong way. The motto itself or what it was intended to represent, critical thinking, was good and noble, but it has become something completely different from what I have noticed.

There is no doubt the words DENY IGNORANCE has lost its meaning here at ATS.

You have mods trotting out the words, "Prove it does not exist," ...

a reply to: nerbot

What may have happened is that in the redesign to tiny (tiny is King now due to the stupid phone crowd) that the motto may just have been overlooked. Hopefully this thread will remind the redesigners to put it back into a prominent position.

a reply to: nerbot

that phrase seemed EXTREMELY shallow given the Terms and Conditions enforcement. Not being able to discuss a huge issue and conspiracy regarding medical cannabis. The plant has been shrouded in mystery and lied upon like no other.

The denial of ignorance would require a complete OPEN FLOOR on the topic, its uses, peoples' experiences with it and discussion of physiological evidence and testimony.

Deny Ignorance*(on approved subject matter) would be more befitting. HOWEVER, this has been improving, but I am not one to cease looking for continual development and improvement being a warrior of truth.

Whole heartedly agree! Bump for the topic. When I first came here even a little over a year ago (old layout) it was very different. After some time here, you start to realize that ATS is just not what you think/thought it was. I don't even frequent responding anymore, it's not because I don't get likes, flags or whatever have you. It's just not the same... That is sad. I really enjoyed contributing here but that lack luster is now gone and in wake is the remnants. I loved this site. I just don't know anymore... Well back to sitting on the fence.

Walking The Walk

a reply to: nerbot

As you know, site design decisions involve a lot of factors, and are ultimately up to SkepticOverlord to determine.

There has been a lot of controversy involving "Deny Ignorance" over the years, and that simple phrase has come to represent just about everything to everyone at some point or another. Some members love it, some hate it, few are indifferent.

I'm hoping Bill will be able to work the motto into the increasingly varied formats needed for the ever more diverse kinds of devices ATSers use. But even if that doesn't come to pass, I'm far more grateful for the fact that, regardless of where the phrase might or might not appear, so many of us Deny Ignorance every day.

Every fact stated, every source cited, every falsehood challenged, every point politely made in an environment founded on a fundamental respect for our rights to believe whatever we want is a victory for all of us.

Admittedly, such efforts may not always seem to be common or popular enough, but they will always be better than nothing at all.

YMMV.