I.R.S. Bars Employers From Dumping Workers Into Health Exchanges

a reply to: ~Lucidity

First off, no, medical insurance was not always offered.
Secondly, funny as you point out that companies at one point paid the full amount, then had the employe pay some as well. Yes, costs did rise. Maybe because the Govt stuck its nose and messed with it???? Or how about companies for the past little bit getting penalized for offering the "Cadillac" policy???
Third, and this is very very satisfying to say. Myself and others told you this would happen.
Forth, I guess the rights of the business owner are now trumped by the Progressive ideals of a collective. SO long Liberty and Freedom. Nice knowing of you for a short period of time.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Also from Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith, "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause."

How very true when you think of the masses of low information voters and a media who have failed at their jobs as journalists.

For all those who cheered Obama....suck it.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Life is getting way to expensive that my wife and I have actually discussed quiting our jobs and working at Walmart part time. The subsidies the poor recieve is more then what I earn. I make 45k a year and pay 1300 a month for family health insurance and my student loan payments are 780 a month. I also pay 1100 a month for childcare. That is over 3k a month taken out of my check on top of paying income tax and social security tax. At the end of the month to pay for gas, food, car insurance and electric we are left with -220 a month which I have to spung off my parents and friends to make ends meet. If I quit my job and work at Walmart parttime, my children get free medical through medicade (CHIP) with zero deductables, I go on income based repayment on my student loans and the payment goes down to zero. I would get free daycare, I would get free electric through "Light Up Texas". I would get section 8 housing which my neighbor is section 8 with a bigger house then mine and only pays 15 bucks a month while I pay 1100 a month. I would get about 500 in food stamps. And because working at Walmart will give me near minimum wage and only part time I would get a huge tax rebate at the end of each year and not to mention more time with my family. I sat down with a financial advisor and after doing all the math for our household income and expenses we would have over 800 a month more in discretionary income then we do now because of all the government subsidies we would qualify for. I have fought with my self many times in my head on what is the right thing to do, should I think of my family first and quit my job and get on the government dole and that in turn would allow me to be a better father to my children and be better able to support them, or should I stay strong with the morals and upbringing that a man should work and pay his own way and take care of his family by his own sweat and hardwork. My wife and I love eachother very much but have entertained the idea of getting a divorce just to save money on taxes and the cost of living. This is the not the America I invisioned when I was growning up. I never thought being on Welfare would be better for your family then working hard and paying your own way. Healthcare cost at my work is scheduled to increase again when we renew in September, I have nothing left to give and no more hours in the day I could possibly work. I already work 15 hours a day six days a week.

originally posted by: musicismagic
a reply to: Wrabbit2000


This is starting to become a joke. Just do what the Japanese govt. did. Mandatory enrollment. If you can't pay, such as disability or loss of job, you are still covered. Make the rates based upon your income. Japan, currently tops the insurance premium you pay at around $6500 US dollars, regardless of how much you make income wise. There is no $5000 deductible before the insurance kicks in. NO DEDUCTIBLE at all. There is a 30% cost that you must pay from the total bill. There are caps that the medical industry can charge. It seems to be fair, many doctors are still in private practice and not living on the streets with their families. The PR that has gone into the Affordable Care Act seems to be all positive, but the results are starting to hit people in the pocket.

Try suing a Japanese doctor in Japanese courts...

Suing an American doctor under our system is quite easy. The malpractice insurance American doctors must carry is the most expensive in all the world thrice over. Look it up.

But as soon as anyone says the words tort reform the democrats stand up and yell that the person speaking is trying to excuse the injustices of doctors and infringe on the rights of patients...and thus malpractice insurance continues to sky rocket ever increasing healthcare costs on the patient.

It seems many in DC want it both ways; they claim they want to drive down costs but continue to do everything in their power to increase them...

originally posted by: PaladinRoden
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Life is getting way to expensive that my wife and I have actually discussed quiting our jobs and working at Walmart part time. The subsidies the poor recieve is more then what I earn. I make 45k a year and pay 1300 a month for family health insurance and my student loan payments are 780 a month. I also pay 1100 a month for childcare. That is over 3k a month taken out of my check on top of paying income tax and social security tax. At the end of the month to pay for gas, food, car insurance and electric we are left with -220 a month which I have to spung off my parents and friends to make ends meet. If I quit my job and work at Walmart parttime, my children get free medical through medicade (CHIP) with zero deductables, I go on income based repayment on my student loans and the payment goes down to zero. I would get free daycare, I would get free electric through "Light Up Texas". I would get section 8 housing which my neighbor is section 8 with a bigger house then mine and only pays 15 bucks a month while I pay 1100 a month. I would get about 500 in food stamps. And because working at Walmart will give me near minimum wage and only part time I would get a huge tax rebate at the end of each year and not to mention more time with my family. I sat down with a financial advisor and after doing all the math for our household income and expenses we would have over 800 a month more in discretionary income then we do now because of all the government subsidies we would qualify for. I have fought with my self many times in my head on what is the right thing to do, should I think of my family first and quit my job and get on the government dole and that in turn would allow me to be a better father to my children and be better able to support them, or should I stay strong with the morals and upbringing that a man should work and pay his own way and take care of his family by his own sweat and hardwork. My wife and I love eachother very much but have entertained the idea of getting a divorce just to save money on taxes and the cost of living. This is the not the America I invisioned when I was growning up. I never thought being on Welfare would be better for your family then working hard and paying your own way. Healthcare cost at my work is scheduled to increase again when we renew in September, I have nothing left to give and no more hours in the day I could possibly work. I already work 15 hours a day six days a week.

Let history be your guide.

The pendulum always swings back. The next time costs are cut it will be on the shoulders of the welfare state, happens every time. Those who are able minded and bodied that do not find work will be given work. That is how overspending of this magnitude ends; though most often there is a "purging" of sorts. The purging generally occurs when the benefits are cut and the self entitled take their tantrums to the streets with Molotovs and bats and are quickly and efficiently purged.

It would be cheaper to fire all of your employees and then hire new ones without offering benefits.

Always a workaround.

originally posted by: PaladinRoden
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Life is getting way to expensive that my wife and I have actually discussed quiting our jobs and working at Walmart part time. The subsidies the poor recieve is more then what I earn. I make 45k a year and pay 1300 a month for family health insurance and my student loan payments are 780 a month. I also pay 1100 a month for childcare. That is over 3k a month taken out of my check on top of paying income tax and social security tax. At the end of the month to pay for gas, food, car insurance and electric we are left with -220 a month which I have to spung off my parents and friends to make ends meet. If I quit my job and work at Walmart parttime, my children get free medical through medicade (CHIP) with zero deductables, I go on income based repayment on my student loans and the payment goes down to zero. I would get free daycare, I would get free electric through "Light Up Texas". I would get section 8 housing which my neighbor is section 8 with a bigger house then mine and only pays 15 bucks a month while I pay 1100 a month. I would get about 500 in food stamps. And because working at Walmart will give me near minimum wage and only part time I would get a huge tax rebate at the end of each year and not to mention more time with my family. I sat down with a financial advisor and after doing all the math for our household income and expenses we would have over 800 a month more in discretionary income then we do now because of all the government subsidies we would qualify for. I have fought with my self many times in my head on what is the right thing to do, should I think of my family first and quit my job and get on the government dole and that in turn would allow me to be a better father to my children and be better able to support them, or should I stay strong with the morals and upbringing that a man should work and pay his own way and take care of his family by his own sweat and hardwork. My wife and I love eachother very much but have entertained the idea of getting a divorce just to save money on taxes and the cost of living. This is the not the America I invisioned when I was growning up. I never thought being on Welfare would be better for your family then working hard and paying your own way. Healthcare cost at my work is scheduled to increase again when we renew in September, I have nothing left to give and no more hours in the day I could possibly work. I already work 15 hours a day six days a week.

Sorry for the full quote but........what PaladinRoden says exemplifies what is wrong with ACA and America in general. Here is a normal person who's trying to pay their way in society facing the dichotomy of going on government assistance or welfare because its a better deal.

Its a choice that should not exist for someone willing to earn a living.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Simply put, all they are trying to do is attempt to give the workers instead of the corporations the break here, to prevent the corporations from profiting yet again, playing funny money with the workers "compensation" packages (more that the r salary) and heads.

Medical benefits have always been part of your "compensation" package and counted toward the big bucks you were making. Employers used to provide it for free and count it as total compensation. But when the cost to them went up or the tax benes went down, they simply passed these costs along to the employees. When the cost to them went down or the tax benes went up? Yeah...you guessed it, they didn't share the love with the employees.

And now, many corporations are trying to opportunistically take advantage of ACA to dump into the ACA and get out of the compensation business and profit even more, and the government is saying no.

This, like the law that prevented employers from changing the definition of part-time employment to avoid paying benefits, is to protect the workers, not the corporations. And I don't see a damn thing wrong with that.

Yeah.

Gonna "protect" those workers right into the unemployment line, and Uncle Sugar's lovin' arms.

a reply to: nenothtu

eh; at least they're in an unimployment line, meaning there is an obvious supply of jobs or else there wouldn't be a line..

I see being in an unimployment line, getting social security as indignant, but far better than some of the alternatives that existed before.

a reply to: nenothtu

And of course it would be much better to protect the corporations whose CEOs' yearly average salaries have just reached a median of $10M. Corporations who have been fooling their stockholders with funky accounting just like this and making American workers work more hours for less wages already.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
It would be cheaper to fire all of your employees and then hire new ones without offering benefits.

Always a workaround.

Right. If you can't strip the employees you already have out of more just get rid of them (especially those close to retirement) and get new ones who will work for slave compensation. Not even the Chinese are taking this BS anymore. But they will soon be run into the same ground.

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: nenothtu

eh; at least they're in an unimployment line, meaning there is an obvious supply of jobs or else there wouldn't be a line..

Perhaps you are unaware of how unemployment lines work - they get longer when jobs get shorter, they don't disappear when there are no jobs.

I see being in an unimployment line, getting social security as indignant, but far better than some of the alternatives that existed before.

Suckin' Uncle Sugar's tit? "Indignant" is one way to describe that, I suppose...

What "alternatives" do you think existed before?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: nenothtu

And of course it would be much better to protect the corporations whose CEOs' yearly average salaries have just reached a median of $10M. Corporations who have been fooling their stockholders with funky accounting just like this and making American workers work more hours for less wages already.

I can't really say I care either way about "protecting" corporations OR "workers". If they can't protect themselves, it's not my job to do it for them.

Nor do I care how much CEO's make, nor am I willing to penalize them for that - I just don't care either way. That's between them, their shareholders, their customers, and their employees. You DO NOT automatically "protect" someone by merely punishing someone else. If that were the case, I could automatically "protect" my wife by beating hell out of random winos on a daily basis.

What I DO care about is this travesty that is removing the People's choices from their own domain, and placing it squarely in government hands. I don't know about you, but I already have one ma, and don't need another. The People are being herded into the sheep pen like the sheep they are.

What I DO care about is the attempt to force me to purchase a product from a private corporation (which you, on paper, so claim to detest), thereby giving them a guaranteed captured consumer base to fatten their own coffers with.

They're gonna have lamb and mutton for a very long time.

How on Earth can you claim to dislike corporations, and prove the point by using government to beat money out of one corporation (or even the individual employees - i.e. "The People" - for that matter) to give to another corporation, with a straight face?

How can you cheer the fleecing of the sheep to give the wool to just another private corporation by governmental fiat with a straight face, and claim to be somehow "for the People"?

How is the term "fascism" defined where you come from? Where I come from, it's defined as a government-corporate symbiosis... which Obamacare is a fine example of.

It didn't seem to stop Home Depot from dumping 20,000 employees in September 2013. www.thenewamerican.com...

So that's how it's done!

a reply to: StoutBroux

This is a new rule announced by the administration and pretty much as a response to that very thing, to keep it from happening anymore.

originally posted by: nugget1
The noose keeps getting tighter! How is this acceptable?
I remember a time when other countries used to envy Americans, and their freedom. Now, they pity us.

The oligarchs of Russia pity you maybe, or the fabric owners of Bangladesh, China etc. . America had to make a choice, go through with pay your own way always and take people dying despite medicine and care being available, or not take it. And seen as that I did not hear about Americans dying at the doorsteps of hospitals (at least not on a grand scale), somebody must have footed the bill for Americas health care. Why should it be the public, especially if companies making money in America go out of their way to not pay taxes.

a reply to: nenothtu

So libertarianism (the kind that's the closest of kin to anarchy) is your thing. Every person for himself and no societal laws or restraints. That's cool.

I kinda think we have some good laws for some very good reasons. Such as the contracts corporations made with and broke and the lies they told their workers and even their stockholders out of sheer greed, of which this, what is happening with the abuse of the ACA, is a prime example and what the law is trying to prevent.

But yeah. Sure. Yep yep. Every man, woman, and child for himself and herself, which is exactly the kind of conditioning these same corporations used as an excuse as they cut benefits to the b-o-n-e and then ship off the jobs when that ran out.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

uch as the contracts corporations made with and broke and the lies they told their workers and even their stockholders out of sheer greed

The biggest liar and violator of contracts is our government. Many examples but one really good one is the social security program. People paid into it for decades and the government changes the rules of the contract. Sure they have cheap excuses (just like the corporations do) but they still stole our money. Hell, if corporations pulled what the government does they would have executives go to jail. But a US government ponzi scheme is just fine. It is a crime.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity


So libertarianism (the kind that's the closest of kin to anarchy) is your thing. Every person for himself and no societal laws or restraints. That's cool.

Yes, closer to anarchy as opposed to more centralized Govt control.
I will take freedom any day of the week over the crap you and Progressives pitch.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
I kinda think we have some good laws for some very good reasons. Such as the contracts corporations made with and broke and the lies they told their workers and even their stockholders out of sheer greed, of which this, what is happening with the abuse of the ACA, is a prime example and what the law is trying to prevent.

Except that those contracts are not law, they are between people.
And I love that the Govt basically created the situation we have with Medical Insurance, only to turn around and then offer a "solution" that screws everything and everyone up even more so.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
But yeah. Sure. Yep yep. Every man, woman, and child for himself and herself, which is exactly the kind of conditioning these same corporations used as an excuse as they cut benefits to the b-o-n-e and then ship off the jobs when that ran out.

So, remove freedom from people, have a central Govt handle life and all it good.

You really must try the cake in your Utopian Dreamland. It is wonderful.