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I.R.S. Bars Employers From Dumping Workers Into Health Exchanges

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posted on May, 26 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000




I guess paying the penalty to let the workers get their own isn't much of an option anymore. Not for the large employers that fall within the guidelines. Wait.. There is more, I'm afraid.


This alone is a huge incentive to find a good alternative to full time employees.




posted on May, 26 2014 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: links234




Am I missing the downside to this? I don't see one.


The downside for you may be that your employer no longer requires your full time services. Further Automation or efficiency enhancements. It becomes viable to pay overtime to some and cut others to part time since medical becomes such an expensive factor.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: Th1nker

Are you certain? I mean the VA health care system and Medicare have been working out so well for us.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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Actually, there is a third option to larger employers wishing to not incur health insurance penalties: Make everyone 1099 contract employees. The results of such a large scale change in the labor market would be interesting.

Unions would be a thing of the past as there would be no collective bargaining units. The IRS would be limited as to where funds would come from on a regular basis because your filing would be at most on a quarterly basis. Most would only file (and pay) once per year for the April 15 deadline.

Heck with all the "legitimate business deductions" the IRS would have a nightmare auditing all these 1099 workers. In fact if you have your tax exempt number handy, you can circumvent sales tax on many purchases. Structure your payments to yourself from your new labor supplying business and you will pay far, far, far less in taxes while accumulating some tax deferred/tax free income that goes into your business account. Just because MegaGlobalMart contracts your labor for $75,000/yr doesn't mean you make $75,000 per year...just that your "labor supply business" does. You only have to pay yourself $15,080 which is Federal Minimum Wage (some states are higher). Small businesses only pay taxes on profits exceeding $100,000. Nearly $60k would be tax deferred until you disperse it (unless of course you spend it in business improvement sort of ways like a company car, office equipment upgrades, etc.).

Since they didn't read what was in it before passing it, they failed to notice that the entire government could become severely defunded.
edit on 26-5-2014 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

The 1099 approach would be fun and cute but for most positions it wouldn't work out. The IRS has a very strict definition of what an independent contractor looks like. Does the IC get told specifically what to do? Then that's an employee. Does the IC get told specific working hours, employee. Does the IC drive the company's truck or use company tools? That's right you guessed it, employee.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 10:49 PM
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a reply to: whywhynot

I'm sure all the "single payer" people are well intended but my mom always used to say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

The best way to protect people from a bad product it to have a free competative market with a lot of better products..

I'm not saying there isnt fraud waste and abuse in the current healthcare system but there is way more in government and they dont regulate themselves to the same degree they regulate the public..



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 12:17 AM
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This is liberal fascism.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 12:51 AM
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Mayby Obama was right when he said going on the ACA would save you $2500... He is making it so employer supplied health insurance will go up by that much or more...



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: Th1nker
Mayby Obama was right when he said going on the ACA would save you $2500... He is making it so employer supplied health insurance will go up by that much or more...


No.

He said a family would save $2500.

He mentioned nothing about employer plans.

Even if that was true, employees would just get cracked at raise time anyway.




posted on May, 27 2014 @ 03:03 AM
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a reply to: whywhynot

then my employer will not reap the profits of my full time work

and if that forces them out of the market and leaves room for me to start my own business that doesnt require millions of dollars in startup to compete then so be it.... i would be more than happy with that



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 03:09 AM
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a reply to: sirhumperdink

I think that in most cases it is the company the will survive and the employee that will have issues. If you are capable of creating a product or service on your own for a sufficient profit, you probably are doing so now.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 03:19 AM
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a reply to: whywhynot

you might think so but how are the companies going to survive when the consumer base (the employees) cant purchase a product or service...... wooooopsie

and your assertion that if you can provide a service or product for sufficient profit you would already be doing so doesnt work because it can take huge sums of money to start a business capable of competing with the giants that already exist
how many people working in the pharmaceutical industry have the experience to start their own company? probably quite a few.... how many have the hundred of millions or billions of dollars in start up it would take to compete with the ones currently existing...... probably not a single one
same with engineering integrated circuits..... tons of people with the experience,know how, and motivation...... not many at all with the capital


this is true of many industries

its ridiculous to think in this day and age that anyone with the abilities to compete also has opportunity to do so
edit on 27-5-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 04:43 AM
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Sure is fun watching this ball roll down hill. Just when you think it's gotten as big as it can it just keeps on going and getting bigger, guess it's cause of all the people it's running over and picking up as it goes.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 07:11 AM
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originally posted by: nugget1
The noose keeps getting tighter! How is this acceptable?
I remember a time when other countries used to envy Americans, and their freedom. Now, they pity us.

You're right there.

I used to dream of going to the land of the free, as many did I'm sure. Nowdays, I wouldn't live there for a king's ransom. What with corrupt governments getting in office and vote rigging, bully-boy cops busting doors off and shooting family pets dead, secret 'government within the government' and spying shenanigans, lying and cover-ups, my god it's nothing short of a hell-hole.

The USSA is oppressive and corrupt. And it's got steadily worse since JFK was offed, IMO.

UK is just as bad, cops don't have guns but they're still corrupt bullies, so I'm no better off here, but ya know - better the devil you know than the devil you don't.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: links234
Am I missing the downside to this? I don't see one.

Having said that, I think we'd be better off with a single-payer system.



And you have fallen for exactly what they wanted--to make the system so untenable as to get people clamoring for government healthcare. See Cloward-Piven.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 08:31 AM
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a reply to: sirhumperdink


and your assertion that if you can provide a service or product for sufficient profit you would already be doing so doesn't work because it can take huge sums of money to start a business capable of competing with the giants that already exist



its ridiculous to think in this day and age that anyone with the abilities to compete also has opportunity to do so


So you successfully make an argument against your own position and prove my point. The companies will survive.
edit on 27-5-2014 by whywhynot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: links234

Yeah, just like the VA. Can't wait for that 8 month long time till you can get cancer treatment.


And not to mention that the Govt as a whole has done an outstanding job with every other "social program".



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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This is what comes of voting in laws without knowing what is inside them. The shame is on us for voting these lazy,sneaky,self-serving people into office and then allowing them to stay there and fleece our wealth right out from under us.



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 09:13 AM
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Simply put, all they are trying to do is attempt to give the workers instead of the corporations the break here, to prevent the corporations from profiting yet again, playing funny money with the workers "compensation" packages (more that the r salary) and heads.

Medical benefits have always been part of your "compensation" package and counted toward the big bucks you were making. Employers used to provide it for free and count it as total compensation. But when the cost to them went up or the tax benes went down, they simply passed these costs along to the employees. When the cost to them went down or the tax benes went up? Yeah...you guessed it, they didn't share the love with the employees.

And now, many corporations are trying to opportunistically take advantage of ACA to dump into the ACA and get out of the compensation business and profit even more, and the government is saying no.

This, like the law that prevented employers from changing the definition of part-time employment to avoid paying benefits, is to protect the workers, not the corporations. And I don't see a damn thing wrong with that.
edit on 5/27/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: tmeister182
This is what comes of voting in laws without knowing what is inside them. The shame is on us for voting these lazy,sneaky,self-serving people into office and then allowing them to stay there and fleece our wealth right out from under us.


Worst of it is I don't think this was in the law as passed other than some "lets make it up as we go scheme" just curious but didn't the supreme court make a dastardly decision making a fee a tax or a tax a fee to make this monstrosity even quasi legal.

Its open season on business as some government employee out of the blue invents a fine for business dumping thats never been detailed since this passed how many years ago!



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