Retired Army General Explains Why We Lost in Afghanistan and Iraq

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: crazyewok

Were we defeated? No, we withdrew because it was pointless having almost no support from our citizens. It was a pointless war to begin with. However, we 'lose' conflicts like this because we don't have the stomach to do what is necessary.

Do you think we could have bombed that country into submission. Yes we could.

We have yet to be defeated by any nations military force. Don't be ridiculous.

Defeat is defeat be it by another forces military might or by thr public at home loseing its stomach.

Get that into your red white and blue heads.

Failure to acheive ones wars aims is defeat. Peroid.

Fair does Iraq and Afganistan ,are likley not defeats but more pyhricc victorys. But vietnam was a defeat. Deal with it.

we withdrew because it was pointless having almost no support from our citizens

Pretty sure thats an instance of being defeated.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

North Korea, Iran, Syria would be a good start. No need to occupy though, just lay waste to the disease that currently inhabits leadership. And, anyone who supports or agrees with their leadership. Is it tyranny? Yes. Is it forcing my world view upon others? Yes. Does it mean collateral death? Yes.

That's my opinion, I feel no need to sugar coat or be careful to not hurt someone's feelings.

But many around the world would say the same thing about the United States government, including me. The US are the ones who need a "regime change".

And how exactly did we lose in Afghanistan? Doesn't the poppy fields supply most of Americas pain pills? Seems like there must be some sort of hand shaking behind the scenes going on.

a reply to: nighthawk1954

I can answer this, and don't need a General's insight.
1. Wage War, not nation building.
2. Annihilate the enemy. Scorched Earth
3. Do not handcuff the Military.
4. Remove Politicians from the Military decision making process.
5. Remove embedded reporters.


And this from an enlisted person.

a reply to: crazyewok

The US political leaders have neither the brains or the guts to wage an honest war with all of it's warts and blemishes. They drag out all military operations to enrich their cronies for putting them in office. Case in point is the several uniform changes since 9-11. It surely doesn't assist the poor bastard in the field if the army dress uniforms from green to blue. An expensive change but doesn't do anything to shorten the war.

In Vietnam, we won 95% of the battles but lost the war. How did this happen you might ask? The politician namely Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon used the military as a tool to convince the North Vietnamese to join the Paris Peace Talks with poor results. They would start and stop bombing and ground offensives to push the communists to talk which only resulted in giving them time to rearm and re-enforce their troops. This made for more US casualties and prolonging the war.

We never held ground we fought for! We would win it and pull back only to give it back to the enemy...this is and was stupid! We also had very restrictive rules of engagement (ROE) where we could not pursue the enemy until he was eradicated. We couldn't pursue him across into Cambodia or Laos which gave him a safe haven. We bombed North Vietnam but no ground troops were permitted to cross the DMZ. The NVA or Viet Cong observed no rules that restricted their operations.

The civilian government in Vietnam was corrupt and ruled with a iron hand making them unpopular. The public disliked and distrusted them and the US as well leaving only the communist. The communist treated the public more poorly than we did but they weren't the invaders. Our defeat was in Washington, DC not in Vietnam!

Both Iraq and Afghanistan have corrupt governments. We were and are the invaders regardless of the reason for being there. We win 90% of the engagements and have very restrictive ROE when fighting. We hold no ground after fighting for it. We do not pursue the enemy into his safe havens in Pakistan. We generally don't have Afghan public support except when we buy it.

I have described a few tenets of fighting a counter-insurgency war. Was nothing learned in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan? I do not think that our military leaders would intentionally throw their troops into situations where there's no chance of victory and no exit strategy. With that said, it must be the politician enriching themselves.

a reply to: nighthawk1954

Someone may want to explain to all the military commanders, our government, and the american people that no one ever wins in war, there are just degrees of loss.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: nighthawk1954

I can answer this, and don't need a General's insight.
1. Wage War, not nation building.
2. Annihilate the enemy. Scorched Earth
3. Do not handcuff the Military.
4. Remove Politicians from the Military decision making process.
5. Remove embedded reporters.
And this from an enlisted person.

Which is why their civilian masters keep the dogs of war on a leash.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Then the Military should not go to war.

Most can't stomach what is necessary to win, let alone wage a war.

a reply to: nighthawk1954
We lost the wars due to a Complete and Total Misunderstanding of their cultures. They had no cohesive unity as countries to begin with yet we expected to overthrow the leadership and have unity become the natural state. Iraq, like Yugoslavia, was groups of people that hate each other (Kurds, Sunnis, Shia, etc.) and forced to live with each other by a strong dictator just as Tito did in Yugoslavia. Once the dictators were gone, it all falls apart, which is the actual natural state as the borders were created by the conquering European countries with no regard to natural divisions between the peoples. In Afghanistan, it has never been cohesive, with warlords, numerous tribes, and a culture of corruption throughout. All we did was set the mental hospital inmates free and chaos resumes its course. We also alienated the peoples despite token though monetarily costly programs intended to bribe our way into their hearts. Every time we kill innocent civilians, we create more enemies. The ratio being against us as we are dealing with strong family and tribal ties with revenge being a large part of their culture as well. Of course, our War Machine corporations loved it all, grinning all the way to the bank!