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originally posted by: rickymouse
We're surfs, not actually slaves. We have freedom within boundaries. Society dictates those boundaries. Certain groups of people guide society, definitely not the surfs. If you want to be more than a surf, you may or may not be able to jump the gap. The thing is, once you leap there is no turning back. Your soul belongs to society.
Goes on to explain that even if there was no lag between the start of an idea and its delayed perception that the very fact we don't know where thoughts originate from is indication that we have no free will.
originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TiM3LoRd
You said the question of free-will is moot, but then you talked about "choice" and "probability" which would make the question of free-will very important. Even if "free" will did not exist, that does NOT mean we have absolutely no control over our lives. Free means "unlimited". Will means "intention" or "acting towards a desire".
We can easily prove that "free" will does not exist (but that does not mean that "will" itself does not exist).
If you are in a situation where all you have to eat is a cheese burger or a hot dog, and the stores happen to be closed, then your will is not "free", because it is limited. Even if the stores were open, what if none of the stores have the food that you would like to buy? What if you can't even get the ingredients or directions to make the unique food yourself?
Your "will" is always limited by your circumstances. There is never "free" will. Sometimes you have very few limitations. Sometimes you have many limitations. If you had "free" will, anything you wanted to do would be possible. For example, if I wanted to have all wisdom and knowledge ( knowing about everything that exists), I could not magically do that. Even if I had "choice" to learn, I could never learn about each and every thing in existence; so, my will would be completely "limited" from achieving my goal (UN-free will).