It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Redskins say name 'respectful,' suggest Senate Dems don't have all the facts

page: 2
18
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 24 2014 @ 04:59 PM
link   
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Smithsonian Institution senior linguist Ives Goddard spent seven months researching its history and concluded that "redskin" was first used by Native Americans in the 18th century to distinguish themselves from the white "other" encroaching on their lands and culture.



When it first appeared as an English expression in the early 1800s, "it came in the most respectful context and at the highest level," Goddard said in an interview. "These are white people and Indians talking together, with the white people trying to ingratiate themselves."


Link


The tribes among whom the proto forms of redskin first appeared lived in the area of the upper Mississippi River called Illinois country. Their extensive contact with French-speaking colonists, before the French pulled out of North America, led to these phrases being translated, in the 1760s, more or less literally as peau-rouge and only then into English as redskin. It bears mentioning that many such translators were mixed-blood Indians.

Half a century later, redskin began circulating. It was used at the White House when President Madison requested that various Indian tribes steer clear of an alliance with Britain. No Ears, a chief of the Little Osages, spoke in reply and one of his statements was translated as, "I know the manners of the whites and the red skins." Only in 2004, however, when the Papers of James Madison project at the University of Virginia reached the year 1812 did this and another use of redskin from the same meeting come to light.

The word became even more well known when the Meskwaki chief Black Thunder delivered a speech at a treaty conference after the War of 1812. Black Thunder, whose words were translated by an interpreter, said that he would speak calmly and without fear, adding, "I turn to all, red skins and white skins, and challenge an accusation against me."


Link

And concerning the proclamation below




Proclamation issued in 1755

I do hereby require his Majesty's subjects of the Province to embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing, and destroy all and every one of the aforesaid Indians. For every scalp of a male Indian brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, forty pounds. For every scalp of such female Indian or male Indian under the age of twelve years that shall be killed and brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, twenty pounds.


Here's the rest of the info from your source


Since the proclamation itself does not use the word, citing it as the origin of "redskin" as another word for scalp has also been called "revisionist history". However, an historical association between the use of "redskin" and the paying of bounties can be made. In 1863, a Winona, MN newspaper, the Daily Republican, printed among other announcements: "The state reward for dead Indians has been increased to $200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory. This sum is more than the dead bodies of all the Indians east of the Red River are worth.


Link

So the historical association with redskins being referred to as scalps came a full half of a century AFTER the Indians began ferrying to themselves as redskin? And by whites?

Nah, nope.







edit on 5/24/2014 by TiedDestructor because: Double quoted




posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:00 PM
link   
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Since nobody alive today was alive back then, I go by primary sources.

The Smithsonian has posted primary sources to back their claims. I don't believe being the same race as someone from the distant past automatically make someone an expert and/or authority.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:03 PM
link   
a reply to: buster2010

From what I understand just one leader from that group found it offensive.

I admit it the term is racist.

If Native Americans really find it offensive...They should change it.

The main point of the OP is this situation can be worked out.

Certainly without the help of Harry Reid.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:06 PM
link   
a reply to: whyamIhere

This is the most ridiculous thing.

It's OBVIOUSLY not rooted in Native American Racism. It's OBVIOUSLY not causing any right now.

Just the bloody PC police trying to tell Native Americans what they should be outraged about next. Like it isn't enough that we committed genocide.

Idiots.

Not you of course OP.

~Tenth



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:08 PM
link   
Anyone who tries to inhibit free speech, inhibit free expression, anyone who tries to impose their version of what they deem as acceptable. . . . is offensive to me, ergo, they should all shut up.

(isn't that how it's supposed to work?)




posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:15 PM
link   
I think as a tribute to the average U.S. white man's ignorance, esp. in the 1930's, the name should stand, just like Sambo's Restaurant should have.

Now if a Native American tribe wanted to name their own ball team after their own tribe or a tribal totem, more power to them.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:30 PM
link   
a reply to: whyamIhere

Also many men go by the name Dick. Some people may find it offensive. I guess those guys need to change their names or at least move somewhere it doesn't offend anyone.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: whyamIhere

Also many men go by the name Dick. Some people may find it offensive. I guess those guys need to change their names or at least move somewhere it doesn't offend anyone.


That must be true.

I must tell my friend Pat he better watch out.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 05:56 PM
link   
You know what? Being offended is a choice. If someone called me a redskin it wouldn't bother me a bit, especially if they were trying to offend me. I refuse to let someone else control my emotions with their words. It's unfortunate that so many people lack that self control, but I guess it's fortunate for politicians that seek to manipulate people.

The Washington Redskins should not change the name of their team. If anything, they should move to a different city. I could understand how Native Americans would not want to associate themselves with a city known for its liars and frauds.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 06:33 PM
link   
I ask again..what gives white people the right to choose what we as Native American should find offensive?



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 06:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
I ask again..what gives white people the right to choose what we as Native American should find offensive?



Well,

Do you find it offensive, if so why ?

I think we would all be interested in your opinion.
edit on 24-5-2014 by whyamIhere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:22 PM
link   
a reply to: whyamIhere

My grandpa was a big fan of the Birmingham Darkies, and I remember going to a Tokyo Yellowskin's game with him, his wife, and mistress (both named Ruthie). Those were the days!



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Aleister



I guess these teams will be the next to go.

Soon PETA will have us remove all the animal names.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
I ask again..what gives white people the right to choose what we as Native American should find offensive?



What gives you the right to call it offensive?

You've certainly never lived in a time where it was regularly used as a derogatory term.

I'm 1/8th creek and asked my grandma if her mother ever considered the term offensive in which she replied hell no with a chuckle. (Tough old broad)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:33 PM
link   
a reply to: whyamIhere

I agree this is completely ridiculous....

more progressive agenda in the works people............

Native Americans arent upset at this, they could care less, really THEY DONT CARE........my whole moms side of the family are full blood Comanche, they think that white people making such a big deal over this is hilarious and ridiculous.......

This is more PC bullcrap trying to take hold , to push this progressive bullcrap into our system.......

Seriously? LEAVE OUR COUNTRY ALONE!



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:41 PM
link   
a reply to: whyamIhere

I told you..this term and many others have been used on me and my people in derogatory terms.


As usual...white people have decided what is in our best interest. You have decided that those of us who feel this term is offensive should just keep quiet.


Never mind the people who have dealt with racism from a young age to adult hood, I mean what they possibly add to the conversation...If white people say.."Well I know a few Indians..who don't find it offensive" then hey it's no big deal.


Thank you white people..if it wasn't for you...how would we know what we should be offended by..I mean the people calling me a "dirty drunken redskin" meant it as a compliment...


If you have not spent your entire life dealing with racism..then maybe it is you who should shut it.

Stop speaking for my people.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:51 PM
link   
Nobody is speaking for you except you.

I doubt you have spoken to every single Native American and polled them on the issue.

But, if your offended I understand. I did not name the team.

I don't think it was done to disrespect. Lots of things done 80 years ago seem silly.

I don't care what they call the team. If you are offended let them know.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:53 PM
link   
It would be a good thing to change the name.

It wouldn't be a big deal. Lot's of sports teams do it. Bullets to Wizards comes to mind first.

Redskins. The name is a bit offensive. Why not change it? Very easy to do, and there is really no reason not to.

Oh, here's an idea. The NFL-a billion dollar entity, helps defray the cost? Now, there really is no reason not to do it.
edit on 24-5-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:22 PM
link   
What about the Dallas Cowboys name? Cowboy originally means you smell like cow sh*t....



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
a reply to: whyamIhere

I told you..this term and many others have been used on me and my people in derogatory terms.

So because it's been used in a derogatory fashion it becomes a derogatory word? Despite intent or context?

What manner do you believe this team wishes to use it? Maliciously?

They have great pride in that name and that should make you proud....I don't get it?


As usual...white people have decided what is in our best interest. You have decided that those of us who feel this term is offensive should just keep quiet.

The way you keep referring to "your people" and singling out "you white people" as the only aggressors offends me. I would be called a racist if I spoke like that.


Never mind the people who have dealt with racism from a young age to adult hood, I mean what they possibly add to the conversation...If white people say.."Well I know a few Indians..who don't find it offensive" then hey it's no big deal.


I don't know anyone who hasn't experienced racism in their lifetimes. Racism by every group.

Thank you white people..if it wasn't for you...how would we know what we should be offended by..I mean the people calling me a "dirty drunken redskin" meant it as a compliment...


I have been called things you couldn't imagine doing my job. Horrible racist babble. And honestly...and I swear to it...I laugh. People's ignorance can be so funny. And they despise it!


If you have not spent your entire life dealing with racism..then maybe it is you who should shut it.

Stop speaking for my people.




top topics



 
18
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join