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Bernie Sanders Pitches Carbon Tax: No 'Freedom to Destroy the Planet'

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posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
Progressives must assume that electricity comes from the wall socket and not from power plants.


Oh sure just like they don't overlook the millions of tons of pollution these plants dump into the atmosphere like the regressives do.




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: mc_squared

originally posted by: oblvion
Since your so informed, and open minded, what do you think Exxon will do when forced to pay more taxes.


I don't know - maybe launch an enormous propaganda campaign that encourages disenfranchised but clueless sock puppets all over the internet to spew out the exact sort of talking points you're spewing across this thread?

Major Global Warming Denial Movement Linked Directly to ExxonMobil: PROOF


I don't have any talking points, my political party doesn't issue them. Which party is that you ask?

Americans against stupid BS, we are a loose affiliation of informed Americans that give out the facts about controvertial subjects, completely destroying talking points from both the idiot R's and the idiot D's.

Nice deflection btw, alinsky would be proud. Because since I destroyed your position that folks can just use alternatives, by showing you there aren't actually any right now. I wouldn't want to respond to that either.

Now make sure to keep following alinsky's rules and start trying to discredit me through character assassination etc....

Because it is obvious I know more about this than you, and it is also clear to me at this point, that you know your position is weak and untenable.

Just drop the BS and admit the truth.

We all wish there was a magic solution to our energy needs, there isn't. Nature just made one of the most efficient energy mediums we know of in the hydrocarbon. It is amazing in its ability to store a lot of energy in a small volume.

One day our star trek tech will arrive, and we will have a viable option to hydrocarbons, but that time is not now, and no matter how many people you guys force to suffer and starve because of lack of energy and transport won't change reality.

Our technological level is not there yet, and if we stifle innovation and handicap the people it isn't going to change the physical reality that we are not even close to an alternative.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

For those who curse the evil power plants, yet still consume massive amounts of energy, to talk out about the evil power plants are flaming hypocrites.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: beezzer


Beez, everyone knows if we all drive electric cars these power plants will go out of business tomorrow, because electric cars don't run on electric.........damn I fell for that didn't I?


I believe this to be the thought process of most progressives, minus the part where they see the error of their ways.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Well anyone trying to impose a carbon tax, EVEN on corporations can kiss my butt. I am not only not for it, I am vehemently against it.

The cat is out of the bag. We know the deal. NO WAY!

I would soon wear nothing but a thong 3 sizes too small in winter than accept ANY form of a carbon tax.

This actually makes me violently angry.

HELL NO!

I am REALLY starting to HATE ecologists.



www.dailytelegraph.com.au...

www.hotheads.com.au...


edit on 5 23 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I love that video btw!!!

Get ready for the " but the earth has never warmed this fast" crowd.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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I don`t know about all you guys,but I will just drive my anti-matter car until the sun goes dark!No need for carbon or electricity!



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: oblvion

You seem really intent on telling me how much smarter you are than me, how my posts - which (unlike yours) contain actual links and sources - are all just lies, and how you're "destroying" all my points, and yet so far you've produced absolutely nothing but empty rhetoric and a very obvious defensive and visibly threatened attitude.

Since you've apparently destroyed my naive belief in a clean energy future so well - care to tell me why a country like Germany, which has embraced very strong renewable policies, is kind of kicking serious ass at all this while you're saying it can't be done?

Germany Has Built Clean Energy Economy U.S. Rejected in 80s


Twenty-five percent of Germany's electricity now comes from solar, wind and biomass. A third of the world's installed solar capacity is found in Germany, a nation that gets roughly the same amount of sunlight as Alaska. A whopping 65 percent of the country's total renewable power capacity is now owned by individuals, cooperatives and communities, leaving Germany's once all-powerful utilities with just a sliver (6.5 percent) of this burgeoning sector.


Personally, me and my silly ideals happen to just really like the idea of individuals, cooperatives and communities owning their own energy over giant utilities. But please go ahead and continue to lecture me on what a giant "libtard" I'm being. You're doing a bang up job so far...



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

Good video !!





and true.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared

Oh don't fret none.

The "clean" energy will be here soon enough.

They have plenty of solar and wind generators going full blast already.

As soon as they get faster production, your problems will be over...

Except for the death tolls in the rare Earth material mines that is.

Unless of course Mother Nature says otherwise. Then what?




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared

Hmmm.

Another two-headed monster....



Despite wind energy investment and high green (Co2) taxes, German coal produces highest amount in 20 years!

So whilst Britain and others abide by German-EU rules and ruin their own generating capacity, producing crippling energy bills for the consumer and blight the countryside with useless windfarms, Germany ignores the rules.

Green Energy Scam - German Attempts To De-Industrialise The Enemy






Energy insiders have long known that the notion of ‘renewable energy’ is a romantic proposition – and an economic bust. But it is amazing what the lure of guaranteed ‘few strings attached’ government subsidies can achieve. Even the Big Oil companies bought into the renewables revolution, albeit mostly for PR reasons. Like Shell, however, many quickly abandoned their fledgling renewable arms. Post-2008, they knew, the subsidy regimes could not last. Neither was the public buying into the new PR message.

The 'Great Renewables Scam' unravels




google: " Germany green energy scam "

Get your Last Wills and Testaments finalized soon.

Get those DNR's notarized and registered right away !!



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: mc_squared
a reply to: oblvion

You seem really intent on telling me how much smarter you are than me, how my posts - which (unlike yours) contain actual links and sources - are all just lies, and how you're "destroying" all my points, and yet so far you've produced absolutely nothing but empty rhetoric and a very obvious defensive and visibly threatened attitude.

Since you've apparently destroyed my naive belief in a clean energy future so well - care to tell me why a country like Germany, which has embraced very strong renewable policies, is kind of kicking serious ass at all this while you're saying it can't be done?

Germany Has Built Clean Energy Economy U.S. Rejected in 80s


Twenty-five percent of Germany's electricity now comes from solar, wind and biomass. A third of the world's installed solar capacity is found in Germany, a nation that gets roughly the same amount of sunlight as Alaska. A whopping 65 percent of the country's total renewable power capacity is now owned by individuals, cooperatives and communities, leaving Germany's once all-powerful utilities with just a sliver (6.5 percent) of this burgeoning sector.


Personally, me and my silly ideals happen to just really like the idea of individuals, cooperatives and communities owning their own energy over giant utilities. But please go ahead and continue to lecture me on what a giant "libtard" I'm being. You're doing a bang up job so far...


Sure since you asked, Germany is hardly a green energy success story.


Residential German electricity prices are nearly three times higher than electricity prices in the U.S.
As many as 800,000 Germans have had their power cut off because of an inability to pay for rising energy costs.
Germany’s feed-in tariff scheme provides lavish subsidies to renewable energy producers.
On-shore wind has required feed-in tariffs that are in excess of 300 percent higher than market prices.
Germany’s Renewable Energy Levy, which subsidizes renewable energy production, cost German households €7.2 billion ($9.6 billion) in 2013.
The cost to expand transmission networks to integrate renewables stands at $33.6 billion, which grid operators say accounts “for only a fraction of the cost of the energy transition.”

instituteforenergyresearch.org...

Sorry to burst your bubble guy, but I am smarter than you, though I never once said that until now, I implied I was better informed on the issue not smarter, though I am implying that now.

As evidence of this, you chose the worst possible example of green energy success you could have picked.

If any of this " green tech" were either green or viable, I would be on board, but none f it is. It is all a joke.

There is not one piece of green tech that can compete with fossil fuels, even if the green tech was subsidised, it is still more expensive less efficient and just as bad on the environment.

Those batteries for those hybrid electric cars contain more ecological damage per car than the pollution of many regular cars combined.

Windmills kill tens of thousands of birds a year, the wind doesn't always blow, and even if it did, they would be out of business from bankruptcy in no time flat without government subsidies, because they cost more to make and operate than they can ever create in energy.

This green energy dream of you libs is just that a dream, that no matter your want will not now, or any time in the near future, be viable, especially not when compared to hydrocarbons.

This is elementary science stuff, not even requiring links, it is common knowledge, to those with common sense.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

That's not even the point. The point is you guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here, you're just mindlessly regurgitating right wing talking points instead of thinking critically about anything - and you are quite literally arguing against your own freedoms. It's sad.

You are getting so badly played by the real scam artists in this so-called "debate", but you will probably never ever get it because your egos are so blindly entrenched in your political ideology - which is at this point essentially just one massive festering lie.

Case in point: yeah, great video posted above. Too bad the whole thing is a giant crock of sh** tho:




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared

I understand your frustrations and I sympathize.

You are caught in a quandary.

You are trapped in a classic Dunning-Kruger Effect.




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared

So...since we aren't thinking critically, answer me a couple of questions.

If green tech works why does it keep failing even with rediculous government subsidies?

If AGW is real, why didn't out of control warming kill all life when Co2 was thousands of times higher for hundreds of millions f years while the dinosaur ruled?

If any of this was worth a toss at all, how come even those fully entrenched like yourself can't give me even 1 viable example of sustainable green tech anywhere on this entire planet?

Do you even read anything but lib talking points?

For my part, I am not as you alluded to in your post regurgitating right wing talking points, I am not right wing, it is more apt to describe my position as the bird, trapped between these idiots on both sides of me, constantly lying and cheating to try to prove they are right at all costs, even though to most of us watching your all idiots.

Ever question why so few vote, it is because both sides are stupid, and us regular folks couldn't give a crap about either of your lies, because your both too wrong and ignorant to even see it.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:51 PM
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More




Five hundred German police and tax inspectors raided offices and residences connected with Deutsche Bank in Berlin, Frankfurt and Dusselforf, Wednesday over allegations of conspiracy involving over €300 million in carbon trading tax fraud.

A Deutsche Bank statement said, “”Public prosecutors searched Deutsche Bank offices today in connection with investigations that have been underway since the spring of 2010 against individuals suspected of tax evasion in the trading of CO2 emission certificates,”

500 police bust Deutsche Bank over €300 million carbon trading scam






It was the first day in a long week of the consultations, PowerPoint presentations and high-level cocktail parties that accompany the World Bank's Spring Meetings in Washington, D.C. Already tensions were running high in a tightly-packed conference room downtown. Bank staff huddled on one side and non-profit groups on the other. The topic that drew so much attention first thing Monday morning: Climate change and the Bank's plans for plunging its fingers deeper into the expanding multi-billion-dollar carbon-trading pie.

At issue was a slate of new Bank-managed climate funds aimed at transitioning to a "low carbon" economy. Two of the proposed funds would "scale up" the carbon offset ventures that already make up a more than $2 billion carbon finance portfolio at the Bank.

THE WORLD BANK'S CLIMATE SCAM







posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

You know the more I research and the more that happens daily, I am becoming convinced that AGW is part of agenda 21.

Look at history, where are all the high water marks for man? At the height of warming trends.

Where are the low water marks like the black plague etc...? At the depths of the worst cooling trends.

I am all but convinced they know a major warming back to the actual earth norm is coming, and theydont want anyone but them and theirs to be there to enjoy it.

Off topic I know, but I do believe I see a direct coorilation here, I understand that coorilation doesn't equal causation, but it seems to be the case here IMHO


edit on 2014bFridayv5820145 by oblvion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: oblvion


You know the more I research and the more that happens daily, I am becoming convinced that AGW is part of agenda 21.


Not "off topic" at all !!

"Sustainable Development" applies to the bankers too.

and they have plenty of help......


Quotes by H.L. Mencken, famous columnist: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and hence clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." And, "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it."

We start with Mencken's quotes because they are so well known from the past, but yet still so relevant so many years later. His past insights to those whose lives are addicted to the seeking of power, or control, or fame, or money is still as valid today, as it was 70 years ago. Below are quotes from the powerful; the rich; the religious; the studious; the famous; the fanatics; and, the aspiring, all sharing a common theme of keeping "the populace alarmed" to further their own personal, selfish goals.

Once you read the below quotes, come back and re-read the previous paragraph. The threat to the world is not man-made global warming or climate change. The threat to the world, as is always the case, is a current group(s) of humans who want to impose their values and desires on others. The people below represent such a group, and they are not saints as individuals; in fact, quite the opposite, unfortunately.

Interesting Quotes from the Air Raiders




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: mc_squared
a reply to: oblvion

The more they charge you, the more incentive there is to seek out other carbon-free alternatives - there are already plenty of them available. And because the system is revenue neutral the overall effect on the economy is nil.

But yeah, I'm the one who doesn't understand economics.


The thing is, if people really cared about the planet and their carbon footprint and I think enough of them do, alternatives would already be in place - everywhere - and they aren't. Why is that? Also, alternatives are unaffordable to many people and towns. Maybe the larger cities but not throughout many rural areas in middle America. And last but not least, has America ever done anything "revenue neutral"? Heck, Obama can't even balance a damn budget.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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I'm arguing with a guy who keeps encouraging me to add "scam" to the end of every google search in order to gather a nice impartial, balanced view on all this, and another who claims he's not regurgitating mindless right wing talking points, while happily calling those who disagree with him "libtards"...great way to spend a friday night lol.

The info in my posts above speaks for itself and those around here who can still look at something objectively can figure it out for themselves. Meanwhile I'll leave you two to just keep sticking your own foots in your mouths and make my case for me.

xuenchen that graph you just posted is yet another denier farce. It ends in 1855 and it's purposely used by phony skeptic shills to confuse and exploit people like you who so badly want to believe you've got this all in the bag. I just posted about it in another thread. There are several reasons why it's a totally dishonest ruse, and the real graph looks more like this anyway (note the little blue crosses):



So like I said, you guys are getting totally played. The proof is in your own posts.



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