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The God of Jesus, the God of the Old Testament

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posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
These are all Mans laws through,

That is a stronger statement than you have evidence for.
I refer you to my series on "God's Law", where I expounded my grounds for distinguishing between the two elements.




posted on May, 24 2014 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I can prove that Men make laws, I cant prove that Gods do, if so I imagine they go something like "Do as thy will shall be the whole of the law", hence the implied infallibility.


Buddy at least there is supporting evidence as to Man's hand in the creation of the Bible. Show me evidence that God had anything to do with it please?

Men make laws, Gods create multiverses, or at least tend and prune them now and again!

edit on 24-5-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake
On the other hand, you cannot prove that NONE of them were put forward by a Creator God.
That is what I meant by "inadequate evidence". Your statement was too absolute.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

You're arguing the subtleties of semantics. Any way you look at it, Jesus was telling the Pharisees that they had it wrong.

There's a story of a man who traveled far and long to meet the Buddha. When he finally came to meet the Buddha, reposed under the Bodhi Tree, he became enraged and yelled at and spit upon the Buddha. When Buddhas monks went to stop and punish the man, Buddha lifted his hand, signalling them to stop, and they left the man alone, and he left.

They asked Buddha why he didn't allow the man to be chastised for his rebuke and disrespect of Buddha, and Buddha answered that the man came to see him, Buddha, but his anger blinded him and he was unable to see. It wasn't the Buddha who was being rebuked, but the man's own anger that was in the way of his ability to meet the Buddha.

The Pharisee weren't seeing the God of Jesus. They were blinded by their egos and their greed. They were leading their flocks astray by corrupting the law. For example. Jesus didn't advocate animal sacrifice and clearly stated that "he" desired no sacrifice. There was good money in the sacrifice business, but it was a false theology that wasn't of "The One True God".



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: windword

What I'm arguing is the crucial difference between continuity and discontinuity.
Discontinuity= The Jews were always wrong from the beginning, and Jesus was offering something new.
Continuity= They were following the right God from the beginning, wandered away from a right understanding, and Jesus was calling them back.
The difference between the two options is not trivial.
The words of Jesus, as I've been arguing all along, point towards the second option.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I disagree that Jesus offered something new. I don't think he did. I think what Jesus taught was an old tried and true tradition that dated back to "Melchizedek", that was still being practiced by the Essene, and as confirmed by Paul in Hebrews, chapter 7.



edit on 24-5-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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The "god" of the bible is En.lil/Yahweh, a Sumerian El. A physical, living, flesh made being. Not the Female Creatrix of our universe. Ignorant men of this world have coved up the true identity of Khod (Indo-European). Compared to her, he is nothing. He had dominion over the Semitic tribes. His half brother En.ki/E.a/Ptah/Poseidon and Nin.hur.sag was the genetic crafter of the Adams body. En.Ki was the master scientist, not En.lil. But even he was not the originator of humanoids in our galaxy. That title belongs to the Nara-Simhas (Man-lions, India) aka Paschats. I kid you not, they are bi-pedal hominoids with feline features. There specialty is genetics. Ancient peoples of, Earth especially the Bantu of Africa still remember them. They have been seen in Mexico recently also. We originated in the constellation Lyra. Look up Monica Sjoo's art piece titled God Giving Birth. It says it all in one image. At one time this piece of art was banned. I wonder why...



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: windword
He also told the scribes and Pharisees, more than once, that the truth was available to them even in the scriptures they already possessed, if only they would read them properly.
So there was nothing secret or esoteric about the tradition he was offering.
It was a case of drawing their attention to the real meaning of their open tradition; i.e., continuity.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I didn't mean to say that there was. I believe that the teachings of Jesus were profoundly simple. I think it was the Pharisees and scribes that made the teachings and traditions of the Torah complicated and kept the simple truth away from the people, corrupted and locked in secret rituals.






edit on 24-5-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

"On the other hand, you cannot prove that NONE of them were put forward by a Creator God."

So was the council of Nicaea part of Gods plan then, did he/she/it choose what gospels and books remained in said Bible and which were removed and termed blasphemous? No that was Man, same dudes that came up with the notion Monophysitism and the same people that kill in the name of the one God.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake
Why should it not have been part of God's plan?
You assume that "God's action" and "human action" are mutually exclusive.
But I see no reason why one should not work through the other.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

"Why should it not have been part of God's plan?"

If the Bible is the word of God, then why would he allow said word to be perverted and edited over the millennium by what amounts to tyrants with their own personal agendas?

"You assume that "God's action" and "human action" are mutually exclusive."

If indeed God created us as a species then freewill aside he/she/it is responsible for our actions. What an absolute cop out! Why should we even have to repent to a God that would have us kill in his name?

"But I see no reason why one should not work through the other."

If this is case then how do you know it's God's hand at play and not some other more malevolent entities considering the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity?

And because the Bible tells you so is not an acceptable answer i'm afraid.

edit on 24-5-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

The God of the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, the God of Noah, Shem, Ham and Japheth, the LORD, El Shaddai the Almighty God, the Creator of the ends of the Earth, The LORD, He is God!

And Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, the One and Only Eternally Begotten Son of God, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God, the Son of Yah, whose Name is Yah is Salvation (Yahshua - Jesus), the Second Person of the Divine and Holy Trinity, The Lord Jesus, He is God!

The Holy Spirit of God, which eternally proceeds from the Father, which was sent to the New Testament Church on the day of Pentecost, the Spirit of Wisdom, the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of Righteousness, the Holy Spirit of the LORD, He is God!

May you be blessed and may all men come to a knowledge of the Truth,

in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Amen, AlleluYah, Amen and Amen!
edit on 5/24/2014 by godlover25 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: godlover25

"May you be blessed and may all men come to a knowledge of the Truth"

Such beautiful sentiment, now if only Christianity practiced what it preaches the world would be a far better place.

edit on 24-5-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Do you think that everything that happens is a piece of the "God(s)" of the Old Testament's will? Really?

I thought that God was an angry and jealous god, indicating a lack of control, that most Christians conveniently blame on "free will".


Deuteronomy 32
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.

24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.


That doesn't sound like a god that is in control of himself or anyone else!

Even Jesus said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force."

Do you think that is also part of the Old Testament God's plan?







edit on 24-5-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: windword

False judgements, lack of understanding, misinterpretation and pride do not trump Truth.

Sorry, but try as you might, slander God all day long, He's still going to love you, God will still be God, and the world will continue to turn,

You're only hurting yourself.

Lord have mercy onus sinners



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: godlover25

I didn't write that! That *stuff* is in the Bible..... you know, "The Word of God".

That guy needs no help, the Bible does it for him!

Don't shoot the messenger bro! LOL "Get thee behind me, Satan!"





edit on 24-5-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: windword
I do not assume that everything is part of God's plan, but I patiently look for what might be.
www.abovetopsecret.com...




edit on 24-5-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: windword

Don't play innocent,

You know exactly why you posted those verses, out of context, with no explanation, in an attempt to make God look bad,

As if a sinful mortal could corrupt the Incorruptible God.

He laughs at your pitiful attempts, and His Son cries for our pride-fulness, all while His Spirit animates and gives you life.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: godlover25

I don't have to try to make your "god" look bad, the Bible does that for me.

This thread is about comparing the God of the Old Testament to the God of Jesus.

I'm on topic, while you are defending a perceived attack on your faith of said God.



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