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The God of Jesus, the God of the Old Testament

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posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Except... there were people in the church that recognized that this wasn't God in the OT...

but look what happened to them...

Throughout history the truth of things were covered up, and the people who believed in it, and fought for it were eliminated... You know this...





posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
How do you know "keys" means secrets in the scripture?
It could mean the same thing as he did when he was telling Peter about the keys.

Yes, and in a future thread (the one after next) I'll be bringing those quotations together to explain each other.
My point is that the "keys" (meaning the method of opening the door) are available in the scriptures they've already got.
In other words, the Kingdom is the Kingdom of the same God who gave them the scriptures.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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Look at Mytras cults....yes Constantine was a member, Osiris, Apollo....etc.

ETA: Maybe you're going there after reading your post above
Second ETA: how are the one that set up the "modern church" and those who protested against it in the picture?
edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: say M Luther loved his biography..........don't agree with the beginnings



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I refer you again to the words "IF you were Abraham's children".
He accepts that they are the physical descendants of Abraham, so he is their father in that sense, but in vv38-47 his point is that the devil instead of Abraham is the true "father" of the way they are behaving.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I refer you again to the words "IF you were Abraham's children".
He accepts that they are the physical descendants of Abraham, so he is their father in that sense, but in vv38-47 his point is that the devil instead of Abraham is the true "father" of the way they are behaving.


So He knew Abraham?

How does one know there is an Abraham? Sure there was probably many men named Abrahim or Sarah, or Ishmael, common names, man....

Wait then Jesus is a descendant of the "devil"?..............I REALLY don'd get where you're going now.
edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes, and in a future thread (the one after next) I'll be bringing those quotations together to explain each other.
My point is that the "keys" (meaning the method of opening the door) are available in the scriptures they've already got.
That is just you theorizing.
I think what he is saying is that the metaphorical keys are being taken out of their hands.
I think that is the standard interpretation,
You would have to have compelling evidence to have a new one accepted.

In other words, the Kingdom is the Kingdom of the same God who gave them the scriptures.
Jesus says that this is "the kingdom", meaning Israel.
But, the "kingdom" of what?
Keep in mind that Jesus' gospel was proclaiming the kingdom that was at hand.
That was the kingdom of God.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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I believe in god and in jesus however I have a really hard time understanding how a god that created all human beings would favor one ethnicity over another. How angels hadn't been granted free will yet are able to rebel agaisnt their creator. isnt the act of rebelion an act of free will! If god is all knowing then how didnt he know he was creating the devil and creating evil. How is the free choice of believing or not beliveing in his existance a blanket for humanity when you are going to judged on your actions anyway regardless if you except jesus and god.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: windword
There isn't a story in the New Testament of Jesus participating in or performing an animal sacrifice. So we know that he didn't follow, at the very least, the Old Testament God's laws regarding animal sacrifice.

Not being of the tribe of Levi, he would never have been in a position to perform a sacrifice. So that, in itself, means nothing.

It is true that animal sacrifice does not enter into his teaching.
But I've been suggesting, earlier in this thread, that not everything in the Old Testament comes from the God of the Old Testament.
Jesus himself distinguished between "They shall be one flesh" (which came from God) and "You can get rid of your wives" (which came from human "hardness of heart").
It may be possible to understand animal sacrifice in the same way, as a temporary compromise with "hardness of heart".
In my series on "God's Law", I proposed understanding the Old Testament as a "teaching" process, in which Israel were gradually drawn away from the more "human" elements in the Law, and the teaching of Jesus as the climax to that process.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

So.... you knew Levi...And Abrahim?
edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Chamberf=6
Look at Mytras cults....yes Constantine was a member, Osiris, Apollo....etc.

I still don't see the relevance here.
The existence of other cults doesn't affect what the church was saying about the relation between the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament.

how are the one that set up the "modern church" and those who protested against it in the picture?

The Catholic church and the Reformers have been agreed in understanding the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament as the same God.


edit on 23-5-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Maybe read some history NOT written by the church.




The Catholic church and the Reformers been agreed in understanding the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament as the same God


If they agreed that that god was "pagan" (or soo before they started wriing anything down then, we're in complete agreement.
edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: Chamberf=6
I don't understand your question, and I don't see how your question follows from the post that you're responding to.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: digital01anarchy

How is the free choice of believing or not beliveing in his existance a blanket for humanity when you are going to judged on your actions anyway regardless if you except jesus and god.
God has a holy spirit that can help us out in being the way that will be good in a judgment situation.
Jesus draws people to God, then is the intermediary for that spirit to come inside us.
Otherwise, we have all sorts of competing would-be "gods" who would be all too happy to lead us in the opposite direction.


edit on 23-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: Akragon


Consider the possibility that the teaching that his Father was not the so called God of the OT was removed to create this continuity in the scriptures... We know for a fact that things were changed to suit the religion that was trying to be promoted...


I've raised the topic before, that the OT (and NT) prophecies are mathematically sealed by syllable metering. For the most part, the OT is complete in translation.

Im currently learning enough Hebrew to examine the metering myself. I will be posting my evaluations in the near future.

My point is, the OT is as much the word of God as the Gospels.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon


Consider the possibility that the teaching that his Father was not the so called God of the OT was removed to create this continuity in the scriptures... We know for a fact that things were changed to suit the religion that was trying to be promoted...


I've raised the topic before, that the OT (and NT) prophecies are mathematically sealed by syllable metering. For the most part, the OT is complete in translation.

Im currently learning enough Hebrew to examine the metering myself. I will be posting my evaluations in the near future.

My point is, the OT is as much the word of God as the Gospels.



Well just as ive said a hundred times before, believe whatever makes you happy...

The gospels are "the word" of God, from the "WORD" of God...

The rest doesn't even come close...




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: digital01anarchy
I believe in god and in jesus however I have a really hard time understanding how a god that created all human beings would favor one ethnicity over another.

If you take the Old and New Testament together, all he's doing is taking the Jewish people as a starting point.
They are to be the first point of contact.
Then the message spreads out from there to the rest of the world.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

You replied a Minute after I resonded......



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
I believe in god and in jesus however I have a really hard time understanding how a god that created all human beings would favor one ethnicity over another.

If you take the Old and New Testament together, all he's doing is taking the Jewish people as a starting point.
They are to be the first point of contact.
Then the message spreads out from there to the rest of the world.


Never mind that "the rest of the world " 9(known then) was already telling VERY Similar stories with different meanings, different time frames, different, and more details...........even then most likely stories passed down WAY before 6000 years ago.
edit on 5/23/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Chamberf=6
Yes, and you still haven't explained the question (whether I knew Levi and Abraham), so postponing my response would not have helped.
You're giving me a succession of Non Sequiturs which don't seem to have anything to do with the subject in hand.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I've raised the topic before, that the OT (and NT) prophecies are mathematically sealed by syllable metering. For the most part, the OT is complete in translation.
You do realize that the KJ translators were Masons, right?
Aren't you just a little bit suspicious that they may have done that themselves, as their own little bit of "magic"?



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