Today's KORAN not the same KORAN - REVALATION

"Chinese whispers[1] is one name for a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retelling 's, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

en.wikipedia.org...

It occurs to me since the Koran was copied down the eons BY HAND AND SPOKEN WORD that it must be subject to the same copying errors that would effect any other text including the bible.

An Islamic Scholar has admitted that 25% of the Koran is incomprehensible due the accumulation of errors both unintentional and intentional.

The fact of the matter is that Koran may not be reliable at all for Mozloms.

Add to it the fact that it is written in ARABIC which is incomprehensible except to Saudi Arabians and is "translated" by every tom,dick and harry with a vested interest from some interest group or other it occurs to me that the modern Koran maybe invalid.

Also most Mozloms cannot read and write being a staggering 95% illiterate.

All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists.

Also here is something all people need to be aware of:-

"Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

So when the Koran was being copied down the eons there was nothing to stop the copiers adding or editing it for their own agendas.


Any Mozloms here can should contribute to the discussion although I fear they will terrified of having their foundations shaken as what they believe to be written by Muhammed may actually have been garbled down the eons as explained previously.

Well it's only your opinion, until you provide a credible source.

a reply to: championoftruth
Isn't this the case for all books that are revised. Interpretations of interpretations. If its not word for word from the original then its not the word. And then there is the lost in translation thing as well.

a reply to: championoftruth


Also most Mozloms cannot read and write being a staggering 95% illiterate.


Feel free to rip on the literature, but I really think you should only do that in front of a mirror, otherwise you're going to continue to embarrass yourself.

a reply to: championoftruth

Thats pretty much true of everything hand me down. Tall tales are developed from simple beginnings. Same goes for man made religion.

That stuff guarantees persecution, witch hunts and the Spanish Inquisition.

a reply to: championoftruth

oh please just like the bible

a reply to: championoftruth

All the points you made are valid for both Christians and Muslims. You just have to roll the clock back 6-7 centuries for Christians and the characteristics line up pretty well.

Some might see this time offset and say Christians are more evolved.

I would say it shows a clear supremacy of the collection of Muslim memes vs. the collection Christian memes. Islam is regressively conservative, which is a sign of superior conviction to the "rules".

I would face a death sentence for even writing these words. Muslims, in good conscience, kill their own genetic line to defend meme orthodoxy. Let that sink in.

Both written by man to further their own agenda

originally posted by: championoftruth
"Chinese whispers[1] is one name for a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retelling 's, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

en.wikipedia.org...

It occurs to me since the Koran was copied down the eons BY HAND AND SPOKEN WORD that it must be subject to the same copying errors that would effect any other text including the bible.

An Islamic Scholar has admitted that 25% of the Koran is incomprehensible due the accumulation of errors both unintentional and intentional.

The fact of the matter is that Koran may not be reliable at all for Mozloms.

Add to it the fact that it is written in ARABIC which is incomprehensible except to Saudi Arabians and is "translated" by every tom,dick and harry with a vested interest from some interest group or other it occurs to me that the modern Koran maybe invalid.

Also most Mozloms cannot read and write being a staggering 95% illiterate.

All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists.

Also here is something all people need to be aware of:-

"Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

So when the Koran was being copied down the eons there was nothing to stop the copiers adding or editing it for their own agendas.


Any Mozloms here can should contribute to the discussion although I fear they will terrified of having their foundations shaken as what they believe to be written by Muhammed may actually have been garbled down the eons as explained previously.

No worries and no fear, my foundation is sound and solid. lol

First of all, it's Muslims not Mozloms. Any google search would have help you with that.
Second, have you ever heard of the term "hafiz" ?
Well a Hafiz is someone that basically memorized the whole Koran. Since the start of that religion there have been thousands of "hafiz", until today. The Koran is easy to memorize because of the distinct rythme and the phonetic it has.

Btw, there is thread here in ATS made by Sahabi which would probably agree with you.

Anyway, I won't argue. In the end it's all about faith. In my opinion the problem is not the Koran but how some Muslims interpret it.

a reply to: facelift
Good point. The illiteracy rate is only that high for moslem women. Who are so well treated. Moslem men are geniuses of the non secular world with an illiteracy rate of about 66 percent. All religions
seem to rely on ignorance and stupidity to rob there adherents of their freedom and money.

The Jews managed to keep the integrity of the old testament for thousands of years. They were absolutely anal about accuracy when making copies of it. If there was even a single mistake made on a page, it was discarded and a new pabe had to be written from scratch.

What makes you think that the koran was not treated in the same way by it's islamic scholars?

a reply to: championoftruth

It occurs to me since the Koran was copied down the eons BY HAND AND SPOKEN WORD that it must be subject to the same copying errors that would effect any other text including the bible. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you know how long an Eon is? How about how old Islam is?

All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Islam doesn't have priests.

so when the Koran was being copied down the eons there was nothing to stop the copiers adding or editing it for their own agendas. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Any Mozloms here can should contribute to the discussion although I fear they will terrified of having their foundations shaken as what they believe to be written by Muhammed may actually have been garbled down the eons as explained previously. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

They are called "Muslims", not "Mozloms".

It seems like if you are going to rip on an entire religion and tell adherents of that faith that they are in error, you should at least possess even the slightest clue about the religion itself.

I am not Muslim, but come on.

a reply to: markosity1973
Because Judaism has a history of study and intellect whereas Mo himself was confused by the voices in his head. He announced 2 goddesses that could be prayed to, before recanting and saying the voices in his head that told him that were demonic (but the other voices in his head were still divine). The Koran was also made up as Mo went along changing to fit his mood. Also Jewish prophets were not known to have sex with 8 year olds like Mo so I immediately trust them more.
Islam also has a penchant for wanting uneducated followers, it's leaders tend to be vehemently against education and encourage muslims to lie about their religion to outsiders. Keep that in mind the next time you hear that "Islam is a religion of peace".

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: markosity1973
Because Judaism has a history of study and intellect whereas Mo himself was confused by the voices in his head. He announced 2 goddesses that could be prayed to, before recanting and saying the voices in his head that told him that were demonic (but the other voices in his head were still divine). The Koran was also made up as Mo went along changing to fit his mood. Also Jewish prophets were not known to have sex with 8 year olds like Mo so I immediately trust them more.

*edit* No, I take that all back. There might be truth to the OP's poorly spelt and spectacularly unsupported claim after all,

The Othman Koran was compiled in Medina by Othman, the third caliph or Muslim leader.

Before him, the sacred verses which Muslims believe God gave to Muhammad were memorised, or written on pieces of wood or camel bone.

To prevent disputes about which verses should be considered divinely inspired, Othman had this definitive version compiled. It was completed in the year 651, only 19 years after Muhammad’s death.

Source

It would still not make the koran a lot different to the new testament, who's final version was compiled by the nicean council hundreds of years after Jesus.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Although the way he put the information across might have a few spelling errors and misnomers, it doesn't take away from the fact that he might have a point. Anything that is contained in a humans brain is subject to error. The Koran and Bible are both no different... Whole books have been subtracted and added to the bible, so how can we be sure the information hasn't changed?

It would still not make the koran a lot different to the new testament,

...or stories of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the Easter bunny.

a reply to: championoftruth

I am not a moslem and do have issues with that particular faith but what you say is and has been true of all religions so S+F and it is not so much the religion but how it is practiced and interpreted by it's believers which makes the mark on the world, it is true most moslems are from very poor background's and many are illiterate especially in area's were power mad warlord's and false cleriks deny education as with boko haram and to a lesser degree the taliban but they are also selective in ensuring only the males recieve the eductation and as you quite rightly point out the version they want to impart on those they educate or permit to be educated, it was the same with the catholic church as well until a jesuit preist called martin luthor in what is today germany decided that people had a right to read the bible so he translated it into german and pasted the translated pages around his chapel, I do not think he intended to foment religious war but that is what happened as a corrupt or mis-guided preisthood and it's corrupt nobility tried to stem the flow of information fearful of losing control of the people.
I myself am a marionite christian and thinking or returing to the MODERN reformed catholic church but remember what jesus said "It is not what goes into a man that corrupt's him but what come's out of him".

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Although the way he put the information across might have a few spelling errors and misnomers, it doesn't take away from the fact that he might have a point. Anything that is contained in a humans brain is subject to error. The Koran and Bible are both no different... Whole books have been subtracted and added to the bible, so how can we be sure the information hasn't changed?

You can't present information that poorly and expect anyone to take you seriously.

I would also add that claiming mistranslations or variations in the text over the centuries is a weak argument for various reasons. In the case of the Qur'an, it actually would be prone to less errors in translation since it has primarily been kept in Arabic since it was first written down. While it has been translated to other languages, it has remained in Arabic in it's original form that entire time. Even the new testament doesn't have that sort of consistency since it was probably passed down orally at first (like the Qur'an), then written down in Aramaic/Hebrew, then translated to greek, then to latin, etc. In Islamic tradition, scholars of the Qur'an study it in it's original language (Arabic), and it's verses and prayers are recited in Arabic in mosques all around the world.

The other reason it is a weak argument is because for both the Qur'an AND the New Testament, there are manuscripts dating to within 100 years of the birth of either religion which verify the accuracy of modern translations. There really are no errors in translation, merely the complexities of transliteration which occur in any document that is translated from one language with it's own alphabet, syntax, grammar,etc, to another completely different language. For instance a word in hebrew can have multiple meanings just as a word in english can. The translation itself is correct, but which meaning the author intended may be open to interpretation based on the context of the rest of the document.

It's not a good argument against Islam (OR Christianity), and is often parroted by people who don't know any better. At the end of the day, both religious texts are a matter of faith, and you don't need to use the "Chinese Whispers" argument against either one. You either believe Muhammad received the Qur'an from the angel Gabriel or you don't. Similarly, You either believe Jesus was who He said He was in the NT or you don't.

There are better arguments against both religions, and critics of them should discard poor arguments if they wish to be taken seriously by the adherents of either.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: markosity1973
Because Judaism has a history of study and intellect whereas Mo himself was confused by the voices in his head. He announced 2 goddesses that could be prayed to, before recanting and saying the voices in his head that told him that were demonic (but the other voices in his head were still divine). The Koran was also made up as Mo went along changing to fit his mood. Also Jewish prophets were not known to have sex with 8 year olds like Mo so I immediately trust them more.

Again, provide some supporting evidence to back your ridiculous statement... The Jewish Prophets are also the Islamic Prophets, just as they are Christian also. Where is the undeniable proof that Mohammad had sex with 8 year olds?

Islam also has a penchant for wanting uneducated followers, it's leaders tend to be vehemently against education and encourage muslims to lie about their religion to outsiders. Keep that in mind the next time you hear that "Islam is a religion of peace".

Keep this in mind "You don't know squat about Islam".

a reply to: DarknStormy
Aisha, Mohammed's wife was 8. 8 years old. Obviously you don't know squat about Islam.
When I said muslim prophets I meant those that were solely muslim prophets, obviously you don't know squat about context. Islam treats women and outsiders like filth and the orthodoxy of islam wants it's oppressed to remain ignorant and uneducated, it really helps in keeping control over people.
Islam does in fact encourage lying about islam to infidels, obviously you don't know squat about quite a wide variety of tropics.