Separation of Church and State has gone too far

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Or a pagan trying to have their various solstice holidays pushed to be recognized national holidays?

Umm thats kinda what happened in the combing Christmas All saints day ( Halloween ) and Easter Pagans days were rolled in to christian holidays .

That happened pre-America. This topic is about separation of church and state which is an American concept.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: iosolomon

Christianity is all about greed. I don't know where you've been, but the Catholic church was the richest entity in the world for the longest time. Not to mention it most certainly benefits the rich. Heck the bible teaches you to respect your place and respect authority. And yes our founding fathers were probably secular. Just because god is mentioned doesn't mean they believed in it. Why else would Thomas Jefferson write about separation of church and state?

I think if you read my comments at how disgusted I am with the greed you'll be well aware I know this involves the Vatican. It's disgusting and immoral. But these acts shouldn't overshadow the great things Christianity has done and teaches. Granted, it DOES overshadow these, naturally. But all I'm saying it.. GREED isn't the only thing Catholicism (in your case) has to offer.

Organized religion is dumb. Sorry you had to hear that. But it's true. It does more harm than good. Just by brainwashing people into fervent belief, it creates bad things since those people go on to make dumb decisions about how to run the country based on their beliefs which they've been brainwashed into having.

Meh, dumb is a bit of a stretch. Like I said before, It's not all bad. But I agree that being run by man automatically makes it vulnerable to corruption. And I didn't "need" to hear it - It's 90% of everything I see on these kinds of topics.

Certainly. Organized religion is all bad. They all let some asshole in charge of the spiritual mindset of many different people. And when someone's spiritual mindset is at stake, they make irrational and poor decisions based on it. But keep in mind, most people argue against Christianity here because it is the religion we are all most familiar with, and not to mention it is in our faces ALL THE TIME. If you don't like it, fix the religion. Oh wait you can't because men are fallible and men run the religion.

Religion is in our faces? I've seen a complete denial of anything Religious in our faces for the past 20+ years. So maybe we're watching different TVs, reading different literature and hearing different things on the radio.

Don't give me that. Religion is supposed to be divinely inspired. It is supposed to be about how to commune with god and worship him. It SHOULDN'T be corrupt. If it really WAS divinely inspired, god would do something about it so that it couldn't become corrupt. Yet here we are rationalizing away way it is ok for an organization that is supposed to determine how you get into heaven is ok to be corrupt and teach you incorrect things.

Give you what? Of course it SHOULDN'T be, that was the whole meaning of my post. It SHOULDN'T be corrupt... but it is. We don't live in a perfect world unfortunately.

All I was trying to get at is - People are SO quick to jump on the "lets hate religion" bandwagon and quickly become ready to take down every aspect of it. It's not ALL bad - It's produced some wonderful, helpful people, organisations and acts of kindness over the years. It's just such a shame these get overshadowed by the FEW in charge that decide to ruin it for everyone by making it seem like all religion offers is greed and child abuse. - That might sound deep, but that's what's happened.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I actually agree with some of that.
Government should have no place in marriage.
So your biggest problem is with Christians.
Lets look at it from an evolutionary stand point.......
If Christianity dies out something with fill the nitch. It will most likely be Islam.
Hmmmmm.....I wonder how some in that religion treat Gays or people who don't agree with them?
The word God on money offends you? That is what makes this "ALL IN YOUR FACE", sorry I don't buy it.
I will say this though, you will get what you want and it won't be much longer either. Maybe not in our life time but eventually.
I have read the Book and I know how it ends. And that is what all this is REALLY about.

a reply to: MrConspiracy
Not that they matter but I gave you a star for that post.
You hit on one of the major points. Man is corrupt.
Many times things are done in the NAME of religion when it is actually man's corrupt nature that is behind it.
Many atrocities have been commited by corrupt people who have found their way to leadership positions. Many times they use religion as a means to get what they want.
People sometimes have a hard time thinking for themselves and will back some of the stupidest ideas from those they view as their "superiors".
This not only happens in religion but in every facet of human society. Science is not even immune.
This is one of the reasons I am not part of organized religion.
I believe in God.
I believe that Christ died for my sins.
I believe that while we may know what sin is and we may know that what others are doing is sinful, we should not judge because we are not THE JUDGE. We all have sinned and fall short and we do not know what is in the heart of another. The most we should do is say a prayer for them, if the chance arrises, without offending, tell them of God's love. Sometimes you may be able to plant a seed but should that entail judging them and condemning them to hell? Simply put.....no, that's not our job.
I believe that when I am judged it will be ME Who is being judged. I do not believe it will matter if I say "well such and such was my pastor, and he said............"
My pastor or whoever will not be the one who is judged at that time. It will be ME. It will be how I lived MY life. It will be about the decisions I made. It will make little to know differences what we did or heard while "in" Church.
Because we are the Church, it is not a building we visit several times a week.
The Book is easily accessible, the answers are there. Many miss out because they are waiting for someone else to tell them what it says.
Quad

a reply to: Quadrivium

Man created religion and man corrupted it. It has no place in the state's business except perhaps legislation to keep it from having any bearing on the community.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Man created government and corrupted it. Before they totally did so they made this thing called the first amendment.
It keeps the state from infringing on religious beliefs, that includes your right not to believe.
The Founding Fathers had no problem with religious icons being desplayed in public, praying or reading religious text in schools. All that came after the government started rotting from the inside out.

a reply to: Quadrivium

We need government or we have anarchy. The world will get along just fine without religion.

Edit: Probably a lot better.

dp

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Hmmmmmm.
Your opinion, at the end of the day, means absolutely nothing.
Thanks for the wonderful insight to my above post however.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Hmmmmmm.
Your opinion, at the end of the day, means absolutely nothing.
Thanks for the wonderful insight to my above post however.

you mean your post above thats filled to the brim with opinion?......opinion that apparently means absolutely nothing

classic

a reply to: sirhumperdink
There is one post up there that is opinion and it was not posted to either of you. Therefore you must be talking about the one were I say that man made Government and it is corrupt.
Enlighten me, what part of that post is opinion?

a reply to: Quadrivium

why does your post have to be directed toward me for me to comment on it?
nice try

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: MrConspiracy
Not that they matter but I gave you a star for that post.
You hit on one of the major points. Man is corrupt.
Many times things are done in the NAME of religion when it is actually man's corrupt nature that is behind it.
Many atrocities have been commited by corrupt people who have found their way to leadership positions. Many times they use religion as a means to get what they want.
People sometimes have a hard time thinking for themselves and will back some of the stupidest ideas from those they view as their "superiors".
This not only happens in religion but in every facet of human society. Science is not even immune.
This is one of the reasons I am not part of organized religion.
I believe in God.
I believe that Christ died for my sins.
I believe that while we may know what sin is and we may know that what others are doing is sinful, we should not judge because we are not THE JUDGE. We all have sinned and fall short and we do not know what is in the heart of another. The most we should do is say a prayer for them, if the chance arrises, without offending, tell them of God's love. Sometimes you may be able to plant a seed but should that entail judging them and condemning them to hell? Simply put.....no, that's not our job.
I believe that when I am judged it will be ME Who is being judged. I do not believe it will matter if I say "well such and such was my pastor, and he said............"
My pastor or whoever will not be the one who is judged at that time. It will be ME. It will be how I lived MY life. It will be about the decisions I made. It will make little to know differences what we did or heard while "in" Church.
Because we are the Church, it is not a building we visit several times a week.
The Book is easily accessible, the answers are there. Many miss out because they are waiting for someone else to tell them what it says.
Quad

apparently at the end of the day most of this post didnt matter and we didnt need to see it
and we should just dimiss it
might as well ask a mod to delete it so some one doesnt accidentally start reading it thinking it might be important that would be the courteous thing to do.......... because it doesnt matter right?
or maybe your opinions are some how more important than that other guys

a reply to: sirhumperdink
Simple. If my opinion means nothing to you then "at the end of the day it means absolutely nothing" to you.
My views may, however, hold value to the person in which I was replying to.
Which is kinda why I wrote the post in the first place.
You can not decide whether my opinion has merit to mr. Conspiracy. It was directed to him and only he can decide that.
Basment warrior directed his comment, his opinion, to me. And guess what?
It means absolutely nothing.

a reply to: Quadrivium

just as the BasementWarriorKryptonites post may have held value for other people who read them
you are not the only one reading the replies to you
just as the person you are replying to is not the only one to read your replies



nice edits bro at least have the decency to not radically edit after i reply
as for your new post im really enjoying how you believe that has any merit what so ever

a reply to: sirhumperdink
Guess what my next statement is going to be..........
At the end of the day your opinion means absolutely nothing.
*Gasp!

I will try and help you understand.
I repied to mrConspiracy.
Basement warrior replied to me. His post had little to no content, therefore to me his opinion meant nothing.
Kinda like your opinionated argument makes no sense, therefore it means nothing to me.
Both of you had post directed to me because of a reply I made to someone else.
You then edited one of your post to give it a little more content, good job.......BUT, it still means nothing to me.

a reply to: sirhumperdink
I radically edited by adding the last paragraph?
You did the same in the post with the long quote.
I understand that sometimes people read what they wrote and see they can improve, therefore I don't complain about edits. I thought you did the right thing by adding some content to yours but it still does not mean anything.

a reply to: Quadrivium

Luckily for the rest of us with some sanity left your opinion is worth sht, too.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
It's all about content.
Some try and make a post worthwhile, others try to be the "one liner heroes".
If you put just a little more thought into your post (the ones I have seen at least) people may take you more seriously.
From what I have seen you would rather jump in the middle with a one liner hoping to offend and score a star.
To each their own. Some may care what you think, I don't.

a reply to: Quadrivium
Then my words aren't for you and I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with differing opinions to my own, because without them we would be all be boring and the same.

I don't need to use a huge amount of words to get a point across which is this:

The only place religion has in government is for the provision of protections of those who wish to participate in it and the protection of government from influence by religion.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Now that is MUCH better.
You removed the opinionated part and added fact in the last paragraph.
You are absolutely correct.
Religion should stay out of government and government should stay out of religion.
If someone wants to pray or read religious text in public or anywhere then the government should have nothing to say on the matter. As long as no one is forced to participate there should be no problem.