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originally posted by: iosolomon
All great replies. Nothing for me to reply to. But I will add, I may have used a poor choice of words for the opening post.
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit
This is pure BS, if you read any of my political posts you will see that I am the furthest thing from a leftist or socialist. So I am proof that you are wrong. You are just spewing political rhetoric that does nothing to further the conversation and is aimed at creating arguments.
originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: iosolomon
When revisionist history tries to paint a picture of the founding fathers as anything but social & lawful secularists, we have a problem.
It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.
Jefferson's actions may seem surprising because his attitude toward the relation between religion and government is usually thought to have been embodied in his recommendation that there exist "a wall of separation between church and state." In that statement, Jefferson was apparently declaring his opposition, as Madison had done in introducing the Bill of Rights, to a "national" religion. In attending church services on public property, Jefferson and Madison consciously and deliberately were offering symbolic support to religion as a prop for republican government.
In this letter to his friend Benjamin Rush, Jefferson asserted that he was a "Christian, in the only sense in which [Jesus] wished any one to be." In an attached syllabus, Jefferson compared the "merit of the doctrines of Jesus" with those of the classical philosophers and the Jews. Jefferson pronounced Jesus' doctrines, though "disfigured by the corruptions of schismatising followers" far superior to any competing system.
The celebrated phrase, "a wall of separation between church and state," was contained in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists. American courts have used the phrase to interpret the Founders' intentions regarding the relationship between government and religion. The words, "wall of separation," appear just above the section of the letter that Jefferson circled for deletion. In the deleted section Jefferson explained why he refused to proclaim national days of fasting and thanksgiving, as his predecessors, George Washington and John Adams, had done. In the left margin, next to the deleted section, Jefferson noted that he excised the section to avoid offending "our republican friends in the eastern states" who cherished days of fasting and thanksgiving.
The first two Presidents of the United States were patrons of religion--George Washington was an Episcopal vestryman, and John Adams described himself as "a church going animal." Both offered strong rhetorical support for religion. In his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."
He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man.
Though he had a lifelong esteem for Jesus' moral teachings, Jefferson did not believe in miracles, nor in the divinity of Jesus. In a letter to deRieux in 1788, he declined a request to act as a godfather, saying he had been unable to accept the doctrine of the Trinity "from a very early part of my life".
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.[
originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: iosolomon
A secular government actually PROTECTS people's religious freedoms and rights. It doesn't take away from them. With a secular government and secular rule of law, no one religion gets a foothold over everyone else. Without it, different religions would be forcing their version of 'right' on everyone else. It would be a blood bath. A secular rule of law doesn't impose atheism. A secular rule of law preserves the peace and allows each individual to impose religious rule of law upon themselves alone, if they wish to.
Secular rule of law.
originally posted by: teamcommander
a reply to: iosolomon
So... are you saying you enjoyed the Inquesition?
You do know why they call it the "King James Bible" don't you?
It was written in a manner which would be pleasing to James the King of England at that time.
This is why, I believe, so much emphisis is given to the "Devine Rights of the King".
It serves well to give as much control as possible to the rulers of the people, through the church as through the power of the state.
When the ruller acn do no wrong, most of what they do will be wrong.
Our Founding Fathers all very much held God dear and near. And, even in Abraham Lincoln's famous Gettysburg Address, God is alluded to. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,